Gourdou-Leseurre/Gourdou Designations

[Apophenia]

A stab at Gourdou-Leseurre and Gourdou aircraft designations. As usual, plenty of gaps to fill and a couple of mysteries.

One is the 'GL 87.192' project from 1937 (although that '.192' is likely just be a typo added on to GL 87). Another is the 'Gourdou ES.2' F-PAAT listed by Golden Years of Aviation:
http://www.airhistory.org.uk/gy/reg_F-23.html To me, that 'ES.2' seems more like a widowed Armée de l'Air role designator than a manufacturer's designation.

A minor mystery (for me anyway) is the CAP.2 alternative designation for the high-altitude GL 40/Type G. Does anyone know the meaning of that CAP acronym?

As always, any additions or corrections are most welcome ...

_________________________


Gourdou-Leseurre

Aircraft Designations of Charles Edouard Pierre Gourdou and Jean Adolf Leseurre

There were two basic forms of Gourdou-Leseurre designations - Type Letters and Alpha-Numerical listings.

Known type letters range from Type A to Type M. Type letters are sometimes rendered in lower case (eg Type a). Subtypes were given number suffix (eg Type B1). Type letters were presumably design office designations since alpha-numerical designations were also (or later) applied to these aircraft.

Alpha-numerical designations from 1917 to 1925 had a GL prefix. From 1926 to 1928, Gourdou-Leseurre was the design office for Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire. During that period, GL designations became LGL (although, here, I have retained the GL form for simplicity sake). After 1930, the use of GL prefixes resumed until 1938 when G designations appear for Gourdou designs.

In normal French fashion, airframe developments receive a suffix number -- so, an improvement upon the GL 33 (aka LGL 33) is designated GL 331 (LGL 331). The suffix Hy (or HY) for Hydravion is added for floatplanes.

In published sources, GL numerical designations are rendered with a space, a period, or a hyphen. Individual airframe numbers follow after a hyphen. Military suffix letters/number designations follow with or without spaces or punctuation (I have used a space with a period between the role designator and crew number).

 

[Apophenia]

Gourdou-Leseurre Type Letter Designations

Type A - see GL 1, aka Type a
Type B - see GL 2, aka Type b, Type b C.1
- Type B1: aka GL 2
- Type B2: aka GL 21
- Type B3: aka GL 22
- Type B4: aka GL 23
- Type B5: aka GL 22 ET
- Type B6: aka GL 24
- Type B7: aka GL 25
Type C - [??]
Type D - [??]
Type E - [??]
Type F - see GL 50
Type G - see GL 40, aka Gourdou-Leseurre CAP 2
Type H - see GL 51 (other sources say Type H was LGL-27)
Type I - Parasol-wing racer/fighter types, see GL 31
- I 1: 1923 racer, Bristol Jupiter, retr. u/c
-- aka I1, aka GL I
- I 2: (Project) 1924 racer, Jupiter, retr. u/c
-- aka I2, aka GL-I2, aka GL 30 (not built)
- I 3: aka I3, aka GL 31
Type J - [??]
Type K - [??]
Type L - 1926, L2/L3 for catapult observation a/c competition
- L1: [??]
- L2: 1926-27 recce float monoplane, 380 hp Jupiter, 1 x prototype (F-AIJT)
-- L2: aka L2-01, Liore-Gourdou-Leseurre L.2, withdrawn Oct 1931
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6948.msg59450.html
- L3: 1928 pre-production recce floatplanes, 6 built (led to GL-810 series)
Type M: Flying boat design
- M1: [??]
- M2: 1926 patrol flying boat, sometimes rendered as M-2

__________________________

 

[Apophenia]

Gourdou-Leseurre GL Designations

GL 1 --- 1917-18 fighter prototype, parasol monoplane, 1 × 180 hp HS.8Ab, 1 built
-- originally designated Gourdou-Leseurre Type A, led to Type B/G 2 series

GL 2 --- 1918 parasol monoplane fighter, 1 × 180 hp HS.8Ab, 20 built
-- originally designated Gourdou-Leseurre Type B
- GL 21: G 2 with revised ailerons, 21 built, aka Type B2, Type B2 C.1, GL 21 C.1
- GL 22: revised wing/tail/undercarriage, aka Type B3 or GL 22 C.1, 71 built
-- GL 22 ET (Ecole de Transition): unarmed B3 trainer, aka Type B5 or simply ET
-- NB: GL 22 ET2 (B3 2-seater) and GL 22 ET3 (B5 3-seater) types
- GL 23: test aircraft, aka Type B4 or GL.23 C.1, 9 built
-- GL 23 TS (Transport Sanitaire): air ambulance, 180 hp HS, 1 built
- GL 24: trial version of GL 22, aka B6, B6 C.1 or GL 24 C.1
-- GL 24X (Expérimental): to investigate the effects of overloading, 1 built
- GL 25: aka Type B7 (see below), 1 x Lorraine Algol 9Na radial, F-APOZ
- GL 26: [??]
- GL 27: aka Type H or LGL-27
- GL B6: aerobatic version, HS.9Qd, 1 built (1934 for Jérôme Cavalli)
- GL B7: aerobatic, Lorraine 9Na, 2 built (F-APOZ for F. Malinvaud & A. Bolland)

GL 30 - (Project) 1923 parasol-wing racer, retractable u/c
- GL 30: 1 x 490 hp Bristol Jupiter radial, span (??) m*
-- aka I 2, aka I2, aka GL-I2, not built (or not completed?)
-- * Possibly 10.50 m (given in some sources for GL 31)

GL 31 - 1922 parsol-wing single-seat fighter, 1 x prototype
- GL 31: GL I racer derivative, 4 x 7.7mm machine guns
- GL 31: 1 x 420 hp Gnome-Rhône 9A radial, span 12.20 m*
-- Some sources say never completed (finished as GL 32?)
-- * Some list span as 10.50 m (poss. for I 2 / GL 30)

GL 32 - 1925 parasol monoplane fighter, 1 x 420 hp G-R 9A, 475 built, aka LGL.32
- GL 32 Hy: twin-float seaplane fighter version
- GL 32T: 'Turquie', Turkish export version, 12 built *
- GL 321: LGL.32 with 600 hp Bristol Jupiter, 1 conversion
- GL 322: (Project) single-seat fighter, 1 x Gnome-Rhône (??)
- GL 323: altitude record attempt, supercharged Bristol Jupiter VII, 1 conv.
- GL 324: world landplane altitude record attempts, 1929, 1 GL 323 conv.
-- * Note: other export GL 32s don't seem to have been assigned suffixes

GL 33 - 1927 revised GL.32 with Lorraine 12Eb, 1 built (F-AIHL, Mar 1927)
- GL 33 : aka Liore-Gourdou-Leseurre 33, LGL 33, or LGL 33 .C1
- GL 331: [??], aka GL 331 C.1

GL 34 - 1927 parasol monoplane fighter (derived from GL.33), span 12.20 m
- GL 34 : aka LGL 34 or LGL 34 C.1, 1 x 450 hp HS 12Gb, 1 built (F-AIIM)
- GL 341: aka LGL 341, 1 x 500 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Hb, 2 built

GL 35 - 1926-27 parasol monoplane (derived from GL 33) with Renault 12J
- GL 35 : Re-designated LGL 354 prototype (F-AIJU)
- GL 351: 1 x 450 hp Renault 12Ja, aka LGL 351, 12.20 m span, 1 built
-- entrant into 1926 'chasseur jockey' contest
- GL 352: [??]
- GL 353: [??]
- GL 354: 1927, aka LGL 354, GL 351 with increased fuel & armament

GL 36 - [??]
GL 37 - [??]
GL 38 - [??]

GL 390 - night fighter, HS.9Va engine, 1 prototype (LGL 32 conv.), aka LGL 390
- GL 390: Powered by licenced 575 hp Wright R-1820 (Hispano-Wright or HS.9Va)
- GL 391: rengined LGL 32 with HS 9Va [?? same as GL 390 ??]
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8557.0

GL 40 -- 1922 parasol monoplane fighter, 1 x 300 hp HS.8Fb, x 1
- GL 40: Rateau turbocharger, record alt 12066 m, aka Type G
-- Single-seat GL 40/Type G to 1921 C1 specification

GL 410 - 1928 parasol monoplane fighter, 2 x prototypes
- GL 410: Structure based on GL.31 wing, LGL.32 fuselage
- GL 410: 1 x 480 hp G-R Jupiter 9Asb, span 12.20 m
-- GL 410s tested at Villacoublay in 1932, not taken up

GL 42 - parasol monoplane fighter derived from GL 32
- GL 421: [??]
- GL-422: GL-480 development with 500 hp Salmson 18 Asb engine

GL 43 - single-seat parasol monoplane divebomber
- GL 430: 1931 shipboard divebomber, 1 x 420 hp G-R 9Ady, 1 prototype
- GL 431: [??]
- GL 432: 1936 naval divebomber, 4 built for Aéronavale operational trials

GL 44 - [??]

GL 450 - 1930 single-seat parsol fighter, 1 x protoype
- GL 450: LGL 32 deriv., metal struc., for 1928 C1 comp.
- GL 450: 1 x 480 hp G-R Jupiter 9Ae, span 12.20 m
-- GL 450 tested at Villacoublay in 1932, not taken up.

GL 46 - [??]
GL 47 - [??]

GL 480 - parasol monoplane fighter derived from GL 32, span 9.86 m
- GL 481: [??]
- GL 482: 1933 parasol monoplane fighter, 1 x 690 hp HS.12Xbrs, 1 prototype
-- entrant into the 1930 C.1 (single-seat fighter) competition

GL 49 - [??]

GL 50 - 1921 2-seat recce-fighter, 1 x 300 hp HS.8Fb, x 1, aka Type F
- GL 50: To French Army CAP.2 (?? Chasse d'Armée et Protection ??)
-- See c460's Reply #18

GL 51 - 1922 2-seat recce-fighter, 1 x 380 hp G-R 9Ab, x 1
- GL 51: aka Type H, aka GL 51 CAN.2 *
- GL 51: Re-engined GL 50 prototype
-- * CAN.2 = 1919 & 1920 Chasse d'Armée de Nuit programme

GL 52 - 1-seat parasol monoplane shipboard divebomber
- GL 520: same as GL 52
- GL 521: 1937 , 1 x 750 hp G-R 9Kfr, 2 built (eg: FW-090)

GL 531 - 1937 GL 432 deriv. 1 x 750 hp G-R 9 Kfr radial
- GL 531: Long-chord cowling, recontoured fuselage, new tailplane

GL 54 - GL 59 [??]

GL.601 - (Project) 1937 landplane

GL 61 - [??]
- GL 610B: [??], Loire-Gourdou-Leseurre 610B, LGL 610B
- GL 611 : [??], Loire-Gourdou-Leseurre 611, LGL 611


GL 62 - [??]

GL 630 - parasol monoplane divebomber (similar to shipboard GL 432)
- GL 631: [??]
- GL 632: [??]
- GL 633: 1938 parasol monoplane divebomber, 1 x 420 hp G-R 9Ady, 1 conversion
-- GL 633: GL 30 modification supplied to the Basques during Spanish Civil War

GL 64 - GL 69 [??]

GL 70 - [??]

GL 71 - 1930, response to seaplane/flying boat transport aircraft contest
- GL 710: 1934 10-pax flying boat, 2 x 650 hp engines, span 40 m, 1 built

GL 80 - [??]

GL 810 - 1930 3-seat monoplane catapult floatplane, 1 x 420 hp G-R 9Ady
- GL 810 Hy: 1931, 24 built as shipboard observation a/c for Aéronavale
- GL 811 Hy: 1932, dual-control version of GL.810 Hy, 24 for Aéronavale
- GL 812 Hy: 1933, 29 built as shipboard observation a/c for Aéronavale
-- GL 812 Hy: New tail fin, rounded wingtips, and Chauviere metal prop
- GL 813 Hy: 1934, as per GL 812 Hy except Chauviere metal prop, 13 built
-- GL 813 Hy: Dual-control vers. of GL 812 Hy
- GL 814 Hy: 11 built, conv. to GL 812 Hy standard in 1936

GL 820 - 1935 4-seat monoplane catapult floatplane, 1 x 730 hp HS.9Vb, 1 built
-- for 1933 reconnaissance seaplane contest (won by CAMS 120 flying boat)
- GL 821: 1936 torpedo bomber floatplane, 1 x 750 hp G-R 9Kfr radial
-- 2 GL 821 prototypes built (GL 821.01 and GL 821.02), enclosed cockpits

GL 830 - 2-seat colonial catapult patrol seaplane monoplane for Aéronavale
- GL 830 Hy, 1930 prototype, 1 x 350 hp HS.9Qdr radial engine, 1 built
- GL 831 Hy, 1931 prototype, 1 x 250 hp HS.9Wa radial engine, 1 built.
- GL 832 Hy, 1934 production, 1 x 230 hp HS.9Qb radial, 22 built.

GL 840 - 2-seat light observation floatplane, 2 x 140 hp Renault 4p inlines
- GL.820 Hy, 1 prototype, single test flight (1 June 1940)

GL 85 - GL 87 [??]

GL 87.192 - Garbled designation, see c460's Reply #17 (below)
-- http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/ith/g_div.htm

GL 880 Hy: [Project] GL-820 Hy dev. with 930 hp Gnome-Rhone 14 Kfs radial

__________________________

 

[Apophenia]

Gourdou G- Designations

G-10 - [Project] G-10 C.1 telescoping wing monoplane fighter, 1 x radial engine
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8557.msg195977.html#msg195977

G-11 - [Project] 1938 G-11 C.1 telescoping wing monoplane fighter, 1 x HS.12Y-51
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8557.0

G-20 - [Project] 1938 G-20 R.1 single-seat light recce monoplane, 220 hp Renault Bengali 6Q

G-30 - [??]

G-40 - [Project] 1939 dive bomber competition submission

G-50 - [Project] 1938 G-50 B.2 light 2-seat bomber, 2 x 680 hp GN 14M radial

G-60 - [??]
G-70 - [??]
G-70 - [??]

G-90 - [Project] 1939 high-wing STOL cabin monoplane, 220 hp Renault Bengali 6Q
-- G-90: aka G-90 A.1 (Armée) artillery spotter, copy of the Fieseler Fi.156

G-100 - [??]
G-110 - [?? same as G-11 ??]

G-120 - G-120 HY 2-seat observation floatplane, 1 prototype
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8571.0

G-130 - [Project] twin-engined shipboard seaplane [NC 420 preferred]
- G-130: Unbuilt project, sometimes mistakenly written as 'GL-130'

G-490 - [Project] 2-seat dive-bomber, not completed
__________________________________________________

 

[hesham]

Amazing work as usual my dear Apophenia.

 

[Apophenia]

Many thanks Hesham. Hopefully forum members will be able to fill in some of the gaps

 

[hesham]

My dear Apophenia,I can add a little;


GL-I (or I1) was single seat racer aircraft
GL-I2 also known or developed from GL-I ?
GL-323 was developed from GL-32 with Jupiter VII engine


GL-422 was developed from GL-480,but fitted with 500 hp Salmson 18 Asb engine

 

[Stargazer]

Truly very, very impressive. Thank you so much Apophenia!

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks folks. And thanks for the additions Hesham -- those have been added to the list

 

[hesham]

My dear Apophenia,


I also found this designation, GL-80,and I don't know what was it ? ;


http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/france/navy/fra-navy-all-time.htm

 

[AM]

Hi all

GL.490 = 2-seat dive bomber; not completed

 

[hesham]

Hi all

GL.490 = 2-seat dive bomber; not completed

My dear AM,


it was called G.490 and not GL-490.


I found also a strange designation to Gourdou-Leseurre,the GL-6 ?;


http://www.ab-ix.co.uk/f-aaaa.pdf

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks folks.

AM: Thanks. 'GL 49' is missing but there seems to be a time gap between it and the G-490

Hesham: Perhaps this is my missing 'GL 60' series ?? (Obviously, 'Gordou' is just a typo.)

F-AFCF Gordou Leseurre GL.6 (25) 15.3.23 (1035) Mission Bapt., Le Bourget. Discarded 12.31.
F-AFCG Gordou Leseurre GL.6 (31) 15.3.23 (1036) Mission Bapt., Le Bourget. Discarded 12.31.
F-AFCH Gordou Leseurre GL.6 (38) 15.3.23 (1037) Mission Bapt., Le Bourget. Discarded 12.31.

 

[hesham]

May be my dear Apophenia,


but by Gordou-Leseurre they meant Gourdou-Leseurre.

 

[Apophenia]

...by Gordou-Leseurre they meant Gourdou-Leseurre.

Yes. It is quite impressive that there aren't more typos introduced considering the sheer size of these Air-Britain listings!

 

[Jos Heyman]

I have references to:
GL.450: a version of the GL.32 of which one was built in 1930.
GL.531: a version of GL.432 which flew for the first time on 17 March 1937.

I believe I got this information some 10 years ago from www.aviafrance.com.

 

[hesham]

GL.531: a version of GL.432 which flew for the first time on 17 March 1937.

Yes my dear Jos

of course GL-531 was a well known aircraft,how we missed it,it was a version
of GL-432,powered by one 750 hp Gnome-Rhone 9 Kfr engine in a close-fitting
long-chord cowling,a more smoothly contoured fuselage and a vertical tail of
entirely new design.

 

[c460]

GL 87.192 - [Project] 1937 [?? - designation style is aberrant]
-- http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/ith/g_div.htm

Hi,
The 87.192 designation is bogus, the website is actually mentioning the B7 owned by the Musée de l'Air in Le Bourget. See more details here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8557.msg246691.html#msg246691
Adrien

 

[c460]

A minor mystery (for me anyway) is the CAP.2 alternative designation for the high-altitude GL 40/Type G. Does anyone know the meaning of that CAP acronym?

Hi,
"CAP.2" or "Cap.2" is a role designation used by the French Army for a shortlived program of two-seat high-altitude fighter and reconnaissance aircraft. I don't know what is the exact meaning of the CAP initials (maybe "Chasse d'Armée et Protection"). Specifications for this program were published in 1919, they asked for 200 km/h at 7,000m and 8,500m ceiling. These performance figures implied the use of a Rateau supercharger. The program was officially abandoned in 1920, but prototypes were nonetheless made to this specification in 1921, including the Gourdou-Leseurre GL.50/type F and GL.51/type H.

However the GL.40/type G was not related to this program. It was a single-seater and was made to a different C1 specification, dated 1921.

Source: L'aviation de chasse française 1918-1940 by Jean Cuny & Raymond Danel.

Type F - see GL 50
Type G - see GL 40, aka Gourdou-Leseurre CAP 2
Type H - see GL 51 (other sources say Type H was LGL-27)

See above remarks. I'm near certain that the name LGL-27 is bogus.

GL 40 -- 1922 parasol monoplane fighter, 1 x 300 hp HS.8Fb, 1 built, aka Type G
- GL 40: Rateau turbocharger, record alt 12066 m, aka Type G and CAP 2

GL 410 - modernized GL 40 for 1928 C.1 contest, divided u/c, 1 prototype built

GL 50 - 1921 2-seat recce-fighter, 1 x 300 hp HS.8Fb, 1 built, aka Type F

GL 51 - 1922 2-seat recce-fighter, 1 x 380 hp G-R 9Ab, 1 built, aka Type H
- GL 51: Re-engined GL 50 prototype, aka GL 51 CAN.2 *
-- * CAN.2 = chasse et à la reconnaissance de nuit, a 1921 programme

See above remarks about the CAP.2 category. The role designation CAN.2 corresponds to a different specification ("Chasse d'Armée de Nuit") introduced in 1919 and renewed in 1920. This specification was less stringent on high-altitude performance than the CAP.2.
Please also note that the GL.410 was not a modernized GL.40, it was related to the LGL.32 (for the fuselage) and the GL.31 (for the wing).

 

[hesham]

Hi,

GL-322 was a single seat fighter Project equipped with Gnome-Rhone engine.

 

[hesham]

GL-322 was a single seat fighter Project equipped with Gnome-Rhone engine.

Also from Onera Archive;

GL.601 was a landplane airplane Project of 1937
LGL.? was a commercial seaplane or flying boat Project of 1927

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[hesham]

Also from Aviation magazine 1968.

 

[hesham]

- GL 331: [??], aka GL 331 C.1

From where this designation ?.

 

[Apophenia]

Sorry, I seem to have lost my reference

 

[woodville]

I think there is some confusion over the dates & designation of the racer built to compete in the 1923 Coupe Beaumont. This aircraft was built with a retractable undercarriage & was powered by a Bristol Jupiter engine. According to Icare 230 ("Les Avionneurs Charles Gourdou & Jean Leseurre") page 62, this machine was designated GL I & first flew on 1st February 1923. Two further projects followed, the I 2 (alias GL 30) also with retractable undercarriage (not built) and the I 3 which was built as the GL 31.
Now if I search for GL30 I get a reference to a racer built in 1920 which had a retractable undercarriage & a Bristol Jupiter engine & which flew the Coupe Beaumont course in 1923. So this is the same aircraft but the date given of 1920 is wrong & it would appear, from Icare, that the designation is wrong as the GL 30 was never built. The correct designation of the racer should be GL I.
The list of aircraft from Aviation Magazine given in a previous post supports this, except that it doesn't give any designation for the racer. It does, however, give the correct year, 1923, & immediately below, it lists the GL 30 as not being built with a project year of 1924.
So it seems that the Gourdou-leseurre list should be amended to reflect this information & I would be interested to hear any comments.

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks for that. A Nov 1923 edition of Flight describes the "Gourdou-Leseurre Monoplane" in some detail but never actually identified the designation or model type. Others seem to have applied the 'GL 30' after the fact.

I also see that there is some understandable confusion out there between the GL 1 (aka Type A or GL a) and GL I.

I have made the changes to both 'Type' and 'GL' designation lists. Hopefully, whoever routinely pinches SPF stuff without accreditation for Wikipedia will now update their pages too

 

[woodville]

Some sources say never completed (finished as GL 32?)

Good. I also notice that there is doubt about the GL 31 being built. From the same source as I cited above (Icare 230) I have attached 2 photos of the GL 31. The second clearly shows differences from the LGL 32 no 01.

 

[hesham]

LGL.? was a commercial seaplane or flying boat Project of 1927

This one maybe in 30 or 40 series ?.

 

[Grey Havoc]

- Type B5: aka GL 22 ET

Gourdou-Leseurre GL-22ET.1: Full speed ahead!

Charles Gourdou and Jean Leseurre’s first parasol fighter appeared just when WW1 was coming to end. Clean and fast, the original GL-1 was also overweight and in trying to solve that issue it …

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[hesham]

LGL.? was a commercial seaplane or flying boat Project of 1927

May it was GL.36 or LGL.36 ?.