Gotha P3 Destroyer Project

[hesham]

Hi,

the Gotha P.8 was powered by two 240 hp As 10C,and the P.14 was powered by
two 465 hp As 410,also the P.14.012 was a floatplane.

 

[hesham]

Concept :the Kampfzerstorer. - Twin-engined heavy fighter(1935-1939)
The specification was issued to AGO, Dornier, Focke-Wulf, Heinkel, Henschel, the Gothaer Waggonfabrik and somewhat surprisingly, to the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke.
Except above-mentioned
Arado Flugzeugwerke – Ar E-500 (1936)
-Ar E-561 (1937)
AGO Flugzeugwerke - AO 225 (1937)

Gothaer Waggonfabrik – Gotha P. 3 01 – 02 (twin-boom plane with 2x950 hp DB600, both engines disposed in centre of the fuselage, like Ar E-561)
Gotha P 8 01,
Gotha P 14 02
Gotha P 20 (all with As 410 engine)

My opinion: project Ju-85 did not participate in this competitions.
In more detail in chapter 4, page 73 “Luftwaffe secret project ground attack…” by D.Herwig & H.Rode.
“Die Deutsche Luftrustung 1933-45” Band 2 by Heinz J.Nowarra p.146

what was the Heinkel proposal in the Messerschmitt BF.110 competition ?,may be from P series.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is a drawing to Messerschmitt Bf.110 in comparison with counter design (as translation),
what was this twin boom design ?.


http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Diverses/Schnellflug%20Messerschmitt.pdf

 

[Jemiba]

It's an explanation by Willy Messerschmitt himself, which pathes couldbe treaded to achieve
higher speeds. The drawing shows an aircraft with roughly the same area, as the Me 110,
but with a bigger part of that area for the wing. Additionally the engines are positioned in
instead of in front if the wing. As can be see, dimensions are the same, but this notional
design is said by Messerschmitt to be superior, although he admits, that the engine installation
in the wing brings structural problems.
Again, this isn't mentioned as a project, just as an explanatory sketch.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Jemiba,


and excuse me,that's Google translation.

 

[Jemiba]

You're welcome ! Actually it's a work of Willy Messerschmitt (or at least of one of employees,
who knows ?), so historically interesting. It's just, that we quite probably won't get a design
number for it .

 

[hesham]

Yes my dear Jemiba,


and completely new for me.

 

[Jemiba]

Well, powerpoint presentations today are full of notional sketches, often taken from the web.
Back then, they still had to make them by themselves.

 

[sienar]

Hi,


here is a drawing to Messerschmitt Bf.110 in comparison with counter design (as translation),
what was this twin boom design ?.


http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Diverses/Schnellflug%20Messerschmitt.pdf

Not to derail the thread but that pdf has many photos of the 109v13 speed record setter. Several of them completely unknown to me. Too bad they aren't better quality.




Here is a cleaned of version of the drawing isolating the demonstration design.

 

[Wurger]

Neat!!! Thanks.

 

[Jemiba]

Thanks for your effort!
Would be interesting to know, if this flower like layout of the props really would reduce
drag in reality.

 

[hesham]

Excellent work Sienar,great thanks.

 

[hesham]

here is a drawing to Messerschmitt Bf.110 in comparison with counter design (as translation),
what was this twin boom design ?.

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Diverses/Schnellflug%20Messerschmitt.pdf

Hi,


my dear Tophe did a great work,separate and complete the drawing for this mystery
design,and here is his drawing,many thanks for him.

 

[Jemiba]

Great indeed ! He just should change the inscription "Sitzungsperiode", I think.
It means "law term" or (political) session and quite probably isn't really appropriate
here. I would propose "Entwurfszeitraum" (design period).

 

[hesham]

Great indeed ! He just should change the inscription "Sitzungsperiode", I think.
It means "law term" or (political) session and quite probably isn't really appropriate
here. I would propose "Entwurfszeitraum" (design period).

OK my dear Jemiba,


I edit the drawing.

 

[richard]

In the recent Flieger Revue X :

http://www.fliegerrevuex.aero/fliegerrevue-x-59/

the twin boom project is described as the GOTHA P.3 , the Gotha contender at the competition won by the Messerschmitt Bf 110 ...

 

[hesham]

But that's impossible my dear Richard,

you can compare the drawing of Go P.3 with it,no way.

 

[richard]

The P.3 looks , at least for me , a more plausible contender to the Bf 110 than the P.3001 and P.3002 . Anyway , this could be another P.3xxx .

Flugzeug Revue is an very serious sixty years old magazine from the D.D.R : The source is certainly reliable and the info interesting .

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Richard,and,

please send the drawing in this magazine.

 

[richard]

I only saw it , but this was the very same three views as the Thope one .

I think , Messerschmitt used this Gotha P.3 drawings in its report comparing a twin booms zerstsörer and its Bf 110 ...

 

[lark]

The P.3 from Flieger revue X is of 1934 according to the text in the article (page 108)
The P.3.001 and P.3.002 are -1935- concepts.

It could be that the P.3 was the first variant in the Gotha heavy fighter /destroyer design series under this designator.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears Richard and Lark for explanations.

 

[Wurger]

Richard,

does the magazine article include technical specifications, as well as the designer?

 

[lark]

Estimated:

Crew :3
span:16,90m
lenght:11,10m
engines : 2xJunkers Jumo 210-12 cylinder in line mit 730PS startleistung
offensive weapons :2xMG-FF guns cal.20mm
4xMG 17 cal.7.9mm
defensive weapons :1MG 15 cal.7.9mm

Source :X-projekte Serie Teil 10-via Jemiba.

Designer should be Dipl.Ing.Albert Kalkert

 

[Wurger]

Thank you Paul and Jens! Kalkert is my best choice too.

 

[Jemiba]

.