Going Swedish for the UK?

[zen]

Could it have happened?

Certainly the Lansen is a capable aircraft and the UK sold a number of Hunters to carry the Swedish Airforce over until the Fighter variant came on stream.
The Drakken is very attractive and bar rate of climb compared favourably with the Lightning.
The A.36 has if anything more merit to the UK than Sweden.
The Viggen very nearly had a RR or BSEL engine and is clearly a more potent machine than the Jaguar.
Certainly there was a brief exchange over Viggen and P1154, each trying to persuade the other to buy their design.

And in a number of areas the closeness of relations told as with the Swedish 4.7", the success of the Bofores 40mm or the sharing of HTP torpedo technology etc....even down to certain parallels in datalinks.

Could things have gone further?

 

[zen]

Additional thoughts.

Develop RB.106 for Drakken?
Spey?

Straight through Pegasus BE.53 type would deliver higher thrust to weight and low level performance than either the Medway or Olympus engines.

 

[bobtdwarf]

certainly possible, and certainly would be interesting.

 

[zen]

More thoughts....

Drakken/Dragon with a rocket booster would meet climb rates of Lightning. Possible attachment ventrally.
Possibly better solution than F.177 as just build more Drakken.

Drakken nose potentially good for AI.23 with illuminator function. Blue Dolphin AAM?

Lansen with Firestreak...possibly Red Angel...
Potential re-engine Lansen with BE.33 or P.151? Or RB.153?

Buccaneers in RSwAF?

A.36 focused already on Olympus, add on stronger wing for large drop tanks, extending range.
Swedish Anti-ship missile potential RN weapon, maybe also MPA....could this be the path to Fleetfoot?
Anglo-Swedish development of RG.10 guided missile, no Martel!? Möjlnr instead?

Could A.36 become F.36?

Swedish Navy gets Sea Dart? Actually I'd imagine they'd be dead keen on Anti-ship Sea Dart.

 

[Arjen]

Draken, not Drakken.

Saab 35 Draken – Wikipedia

sv.wikipedia.org

 

[Flying Sorcerer]

If the RN had renewed its carrier fleet in the 70s and not procured the Phantom for some reason, would a carrier-compatible Viggen have been feasible?

 

[zen]

If the RN had renewed its carrier fleet in the 70s and not procured the Phantom for some reason, would a carrier-compatible Viggen have been feasible?

Yes, but....
It all depends

And there is an issue with the undercarriage main gear and any wingfold one might want to try.

 

[uk 75]

BAe and Saab did get it together with the Gripen

Saab JAS 39 Gripen - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I was in Vienna in 1998 when BAe and Saab were offering the Austrians a Gripen/Hawk deal. Bet the Austrians wish they had bought them instead of German built Typhoons.

 

[zen]

On a technical sense the Grippen could have succeeded the Jaguar more quickly and affordably.
But I have my doubts about it as a wider solution for the RAF.

However a scaled up version using a straight through RB.422 or whatever the scaled up XG.40 was designated would more naturally succeed the Viggen and do pretty much as well as the Typhoon.....perhaps we could name it Wraith/Vålnad?

 

[Archibald]

Drakken with RB.106 instead of Lightning. As for rocket, give it H202-kerosene.

A36 in place of TSR-2

Viggen instead of Phantom and Jaguar and Harrier (big powerful fighter + powerful ground pounder + STOL)

Also note that one of the BAe P.100-something looked astoninshingly similar to the Grippen (think it was P.106, can't remember).

 

[Arjen]

Wince.
Draken, not Drakken.
Gripen, not Grippen.

 

[zen]

Wince.
Draken, not Drakken.
Gripen, not Grippen.

Anything to actually add rather than criticising my spelling?

 

[Arjen]

It's an allergy I have developed over the years. Right up there with Northrup(p)/Northrop, Horton/Horten, Drakken/Draken, Grippen/Gripen. Rafael/Rafale. Annoying, isn't it?

 

[zen]

It's an allergy I have developed over the years. Right up there with Northrup(p)/Northrop, Horton/Horten, Drakken/Draken, Grippen/Gripen. Rafael/Rafale. Annoying, isn't it?

For a dyslexic it is more than annoying as it detracts from the subject.
The meaning is clear despite one's spelling quirks.
And besides this what have you to add?

 

[Arjen]

My apologies, I will desist.

 

[Fluff]

It's an allergy I have developed over the years. Right up there with Northrup(p)/Northrop, Horton/Horten, Drakken/Draken, Grippen/Gripen. Rafael/Rafale. Annoying, isn't it?

Should be Gripen, (comma, not a full stop).

 

[zen]

It's an allergy I have developed over the years. Right up there with Northrup(p)/Northrop, Horton/Horten, Drakken/Draken, Grippen/Gripen. Rafael/Rafale. Annoying, isn't it?

Should be Gripen, (comma, not a full stop).

Sigh.....could you please conduct your spelling punctuation and grammar arguments to an appropriate forum.

 

[Fluff]

It's an allergy I have developed over the years. Right up there with Northrup(p)/Northrop, Horton/Horten, Drakken/Draken, Grippen/Gripen. Rafael/Rafale. Annoying, isn't it?

Should be Gripen, (comma, not a full stop).

Sigh.....could you please conduct your spelling punctuation and grammar arguments to an appropriate forum.

My apologies, only trying to help.

 

[Archibald]

Wince.
Draken, not Drakken.
Gripen, not Grippen.

Sorry for the mistake. Will try to remind it. Maybe it is because of the Drakkar boat ? Viking, Swedish...

Don't ask me why, for reasons beyond my understanding that string of Swedish aircraft names often reminds me of the late Bob Marley...

I'm gonna be Draken, like a Viggen, in Gripen...
Draken, Viggen, Gripen...

Rafael instead of Rafale really piss-me off. I often think it is related to the Israeli missile-maker (who, incidentally, provided AAMs for the IDF/AF Mirage III-C, so there is a remote connection with Dassault in the end).

But seriously, who on Earth would name a plane Rafael ? Ra-fa-le = SQUALL.

(both songs and singers are pretty annoying, so it really doesn't help)

 

[Archibald]

It's an allergy I have developed over the years. Right up there with Northrup(p)/Northrop, Horton/Horten, Drakken/Draken, Grippen/Gripen. Rafael/Rafale. Annoying, isn't it?

Horton, god damn it, is not an aircraft but a baby elephant in a Dreamworks (Pixar ?) anime. Flying Horton ? dueling in the air with Dumbo ?

and Northrup, O RLY ? only by the sound of it, it sounds like somebody clearing its throat and spreading COVID saliva all over the place...

NOOORRRRTHRUUUUPPP !!!

 

[Arjen]

Horton Hears a Who. Classic.

 

[zen]

Relevant Viggen thread.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/saab-viggen-concepts-and-unbuilt-versions.30430/

Relevant Swedish projects

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/saab-fighter-attack-projects.683/#post-27060

 

[zen]

So.
175 Viggen plus 25 Trainers as MRI tasked with nuclear delivery. This in place of P1154.
A similar number for Fighter duties, QRA etc....
At least 350 to 400 for the RAF.
Assuming a FAA Order for a navalised version....148?

So Total UK license build would be 500 to 550 or so aircraft.

However.....the MRI Strike mission might actually more suit the A.36, and a interceptor might be developed out of this. Especially as UK avionics might assist this.
Such as TSR.2 TFR set, or Blue Parot, P1154/Jaguar INS, moving map display etc...
Making UK involvement in A36 a highly distorting influence and undermining the AJ.37.

However AJ.37 does potentially meet Indian and South African requirements.

 

[helmutkohl]

some pics for this what iff..

UK Viggies

UK Grippies

 

[Justo Miranda]

My apologies, I will desist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Miranda

I have had to suffer worse allergies

 

[Archibald]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_(moon)