Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) UK-Japan-Italy

[FighterJock]

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jp.reuters.com

Joint venture company will be found by 2025, possible share is UK 4 / JP 4/ ITA 2

I would have thought that the GCAP Joint venture company would have been founded right now instead of 2025, especially since they have all put forward money for the project.

 

[raptor82]

IHI：An engine prototype will be developed by the later 2020s.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...-ihi-rolls-royce-progress-gcap-fighter-engine

 

[timmymagic]

Different view of the model of GCAP at Japan DSEI2023, including a view from the front which the other have missed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1635954460680912896

View: https://twitter.com/charl_folife/status/1635954460680912896

 

[red admiral]

Wow. How different the new GCAP design is from the initial Tempest, I like what I am seeing at present.

It's pretty similar configuration to the mock-up? Forward fuselage slimmed down to be more normal, some more blending around the engines and rear fuselage. It's hardly radical change.

 

[TomcatViP]

Dsi?!

Also, I am pretty sure that the rudders are place holders. See how they would potentially conflict with flaps upward movements.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Essentially an updated F-22.

 

[Trident]

That wing trailing edge is interesting (or possibly crudely built).

 

[Forest Green]

That wing trailing edge is interesting (or possibly crudely built).

It's a model, so pinch of salt rule applies to anything seen or not seen.

 

[red admiral]

Essentially an updated F-22.

Because it has 2 engines, 2D nozzles and is pointy?

 

[bobbymike]

Sensors Key Part of New U.K.-Japan-Italy Fighter Jet Program

Sensors Key Part of New U.K.-Japan-Italy Fighter Jet Program

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

 

[Foo Fighter]

Essentially an updated F-22.

Because it has 2 engines, 2D nozzles and is pointy?

No, because is pointy, has 2d nozzles and 2 engines. Oh, and for now, potentially a pilot........

 

[Kota]

Maybe something that slipped under the radar of most people and is tangentially related to GCAP.
AERALIS was that company who released that interesting module jet trainer design and received a contract under GCAP as a potential future jet trainer.
Now AERALIS has signed a contract with ShinMaywa for the engineering stage.

AERALIS announces Digital Engineering contract with Shinmaywa – AERALIS

Innovative British Military fast-jet company AERALIS has today announced a partnership with Japanese aircraft manufacturers, ShinMaywa. Signed at DSEI Japan, the two companies will work together to establish best practice in the implementation of Digital Engineering processes for aircraft...

aeralis.com

We could see a joint trainer as well as a Hawk/T-4 replacement. I really don't see Leonardo ditching the M-436 to hop on this project though as they are offering it to Japan too as a T-4 replacement.

 

[helmutkohl]

its interesting they signed with ShinMaywa rather than Kawasaki. ShinMaywa is often associated with amphibious planes. Kawasaki is the one that makes trainers, among other things, in Japan. Kawasaki was also part of the F-X group with Mitsubishi, but not sure if they are still together on GCAP

 

[Kota]

As it stands, it is only a design engineering partnership between the two companies as the whole modular jet design is so far of unknown viability. The plan is for ShinMaywa to provide the software and help with the design process. There is a chance that Kawasaki is planning on a domestic design or maybe partnering with someone else. Also Kawasaki isn't really THE jet trainer maker, just the latest. The role of jet trainer manufacturer has jumped hands with the Fuji T-1, Mitsubishi T-2, and now Kawasaki T-4

 

[raptor82]

……
Obviously these three small-scale models have bigger wings .

 

[Ares]

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jp.reuters.com

Joint venture company will be found by 2025, possible share is UK 4 / JP 4/ ITA 2

I would have thought that the GCAP Joint venture company would have been founded right now instead of 2025, especially since they have all put forward money for the project.

There is still much work to be done before making a joint venture which will oversee detailed design and production.

……
Obviously these three small-scale models have bigger wings .

I think all the current design that has been released are the placeholders. They look too conservative to be a 6th gen aircraft IMO.

Anyway, FYI, these models are for the concept explanation of ISANKE & ICS. The operating conditions of sensing and reactions(effects) are represented by the lights that constantly changing. It emphasizes the different operating conditions of the three aircraft and the division of roles accordingly. Thus, it is possible to operate such as the squadron commander collects target information and share to other fighters without using any sensors, including radar.

Japan already demonstrated such technology with IFCF(Integrated Fire Control for Fighter). However, IFCF is only intended for small-scale air-to-air engagements between aircraft, while ISANKE & ICS will cover the entire battlefield and other domains.

 

[bobbymike]

Future Jet Fighter Could Be Held Together With ‘Glue’

Future Jet Fighter Could Be Held Together With ‘Glue’

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

 

[Kota]

We now have a preliminary model of GCAPs engine and it so far just looks like a further along model of the XF9-1

GCAPのエンジンコンセプトを展示 – 旅行業界・航空業界 最新情報 − 航空新聞社

www.jwing.net

 

[TomcatViP]

Looks like it's shorter, hence core hotter.

 

[Kota]

Here is the XG240 for comparison

and another scale model of the XF9-1

It doesn't appear to simply be a case of reusing old models either as it has been updated compared to older XF9-1 models.

 

[Ares]

ロールス・ロイス、GCAPエンジンは最大１MW級に – 旅行業界・航空業界 最新情報 − 航空新聞社

www.jwing.net

Rolls-Royce said the GCAP's engine could produce up to 1MW of power, five times the overall power of the Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

[snne]

Maybe something that slipped under the radar of most people and is tangentially related to GCAP.
AERALIS was that company who released that interesting module jet trainer design and received a contract under GCAP as a potential future jet trainer.
Now AERALIS has signed a contract with ShinMaywa for the engineering stage.

AERALIS announces Digital Engineering contract with Shinmaywa – AERALIS

Innovative British Military fast-jet company AERALIS has today announced a partnership with Japanese aircraft manufacturers, ShinMaywa. Signed at DSEI Japan, the two companies will work together to establish best practice in the implementation of Digital Engineering processes for aircraft...

aeralis.com

We could see a joint trainer as well as a Hawk/T-4 replacement. I really don't see Leonardo ditching the M-436 to hop on this project though as they are offering it to Japan too as a T-4 replacement.

Isn't it interesting that developing a next gen fighter and its trainer at the same time seems to be the new norm except for S.Korea and China? (NGAD/T-7A - MMU/Hürjet - GCAP/Hawk replacement)

 

[FighterJock]

Maybe something that slipped under the radar of most people and is tangentially related to GCAP.
AERALIS was that company who released that interesting module jet trainer design and received a contract under GCAP as a potential future jet trainer.
Now AERALIS has signed a contract with ShinMaywa for the engineering stage.

AERALIS announces Digital Engineering contract with Shinmaywa – AERALIS

Innovative British Military fast-jet company AERALIS has today announced a partnership with Japanese aircraft manufacturers, ShinMaywa. Signed at DSEI Japan, the two companies will work together to establish best practice in the implementation of Digital Engineering processes for aircraft...

aeralis.com

We could see a joint trainer as well as a Hawk/T-4 replacement. I really don't see Leonardo ditching the M-436 to hop on this project though as they are offering it to Japan too as a T-4 replacement.

Isn't it interesting that developing a next gen fighter and its trainer at the same time seems to be the new norm except for S.Korea and China? (NGAD/T-7A - MMU/Hürjet - GCAP/Hawk replacement)

The UK really needs a new jet trainer to replace the rapidly ageing Hawk considering what is going on with the ongoing problems. I would think that the new jet trainer would have to be in service before the GCAP fighter.

 

[snne]

Maybe something that slipped under the radar of most people and is tangentially related to GCAP.
AERALIS was that company who released that interesting module jet trainer design and received a contract under GCAP as a potential future jet trainer.
Now AERALIS has signed a contract with ShinMaywa for the engineering stage.

AERALIS announces Digital Engineering contract with Shinmaywa – AERALIS

Innovative British Military fast-jet company AERALIS has today announced a partnership with Japanese aircraft manufacturers, ShinMaywa. Signed at DSEI Japan, the two companies will work together to establish best practice in the implementation of Digital Engineering processes for aircraft...

aeralis.com

We could see a joint trainer as well as a Hawk/T-4 replacement. I really don't see Leonardo ditching the M-436 to hop on this project though as they are offering it to Japan too as a T-4 replacement.

Isn't it interesting that developing a next gen fighter and its trainer at the same time seems to be the new norm except for S.Korea and China? (NGAD/T-7A - MMU/Hürjet - GCAP/Hawk replacement)

The UK really needs a new jet trainer to replace the rapidly ageing Hawk considering what is going on with the ongoing problems. I would think that the new jet trainer would have to be in service before the GCAP fighter.

Isn't there already a British company that is designing a modular trainer/light fighter that is based on the design of the Hawk? I can't remember the exact name of the project but afaik they signed a MOU with RAF.

 

[FighterJock]

Maybe something that slipped under the radar of most people and is tangentially related to GCAP.
AERALIS was that company who released that interesting module jet trainer design and received a contract under GCAP as a potential future jet trainer.
Now AERALIS has signed a contract with ShinMaywa for the engineering stage.

AERALIS announces Digital Engineering contract with Shinmaywa – AERALIS

Innovative British Military fast-jet company AERALIS has today announced a partnership with Japanese aircraft manufacturers, ShinMaywa. Signed at DSEI Japan, the two companies will work together to establish best practice in the implementation of Digital Engineering processes for aircraft...

aeralis.com

We could see a joint trainer as well as a Hawk/T-4 replacement. I really don't see Leonardo ditching the M-436 to hop on this project though as they are offering it to Japan too as a T-4 replacement.

Isn't it interesting that developing a next gen fighter and its trainer at the same time seems to be the new norm except for S.Korea and China? (NGAD/T-7A - MMU/Hürjet - GCAP/Hawk replacement)

The UK really needs a new jet trainer to replace the rapidly ageing Hawk considering what is going on with the ongoing problems. I would think that the new jet trainer would have to be in service before the GCAP fighter.

Isn't there already a British company that is designing a modular trainer/light fighter that is based on the design of the Hawk? I can't remember the exact name of the project but afaik they signed a MOU with RAF.

BAE Systems I think it was if I can remember.

 

[red admiral]

Aeralis is trying to raise funding for their new trainer concept. There is no agreement or contract from UK government to fund this. There has been contracts to Aeralis from UK MOD to provide insight / feedback on the new digital design toolset that they are using. Aeralis' contract with Shinmaywa is also about tools. There is no UK or UK/JPN programme for a new lead in fighter trainer.

On the UK there is no need for a long time given the Hawk T2 fleet. What do these newer types really add to training? Any gap is more around reduced operating costs in the future from a newer aircraft.

 

[Hood]

Not to mention that the MoD doesn't do business that way now.
When the current UKMFTS contract is up for renewal the whole training programme will be up for grabs and it will be whatever the various consortia offer that will be the choices on offer. One of those will likely include Aeralis but it will be up against M346 (oh the irony), T-7, T-50, PC-21, maybe reconned Hawks etc.

You don't just buy the airframe these days, you buy the spares package, the servicing plan, the training package, the optional specially formulated go-faster polish, the bespoke personalised chocks etc. etc.

 

[Forest Green]

ロールス・ロイス、GCAPエンジンは最大１MW級に – 旅行業界・航空業界 最新情報 − 航空新聞社

www.jwing.net

Rolls-Royce said the GCAP's engine could produce up to 1MW of power, five times the overall power of the Eurofighter Typhoon.

I assume that means 1MW electrical power, because 1MW total would not be anything to shout about.

 

[Ares]

ロールス・ロイス、GCAPエンジンは最大１MW級に – 旅行業界・航空業界 最新情報 − 航空新聞社

www.jwing.net

Rolls-Royce said the GCAP's engine could produce up to 1MW of power, five times the overall power of the Eurofighter Typhoon.

I assume that means 1MW electrical power, because 1MW total would not be anything to shout about.

Of course. This performance is a worth to be shouted out, as F-22 can generate only 130 kW and 160 kW for F-35.

 

[FighterJock]

ロールス・ロイス、GCAPエンジンは最大１MW級に – 旅行業界・航空業界 最新情報 − 航空新聞社

www.jwing.net

Rolls-Royce said the GCAP's engine could produce up to 1MW of power, five times the overall power of the Eurofighter Typhoon.

I assume that means 1MW electrical power, because 1MW total would not be anything to shout about.

Of course. This performance is a worth to be shouted out, as F-22 can generate only 130 kW and 160 kW for F-35.

So I take it that the engine for GCAP will be able to supercruise like the F-22? And be able to fly at Mach 2 or higher without breaking sweat with all that power behind it.

 

[TomcatViP]

It's probable that the electrical power available is decreasing with the power available for propulsion. Hence, at max thrust, you will have a very low electrical power.

You probably also had noticed that this engine makes away with the bypass tubing that RR had before the two programs were merged.

 

[red admiral]

It's probable that the electrical power available is decreasing with the power available for propulsion. Hence, at max thrust, you will have a very low electrical power.

Normally the generator is attached to one of the spools, sometimes via another shaft and gearbox. But this coupling means that electrical generation is tied to spoil speed and hence throttle setting. So max thrust = max offtake power.

 

[TomcatViP]

I am not sure it's a shaft driven main generator

 

[Forest Green]

Normally the generator is attached to one of the spools, sometimes via another shaft and gearbox. But this coupling means that electrical generation is tied to spoil speed and hence throttle setting. So max thrust = max offtake power.

I guess you could theoretically have some kind of clutch-type mechanism.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

It's probable that the electrical power available is decreasing with the power available for propulsion. Hence, at max thrust, you will have a very low electrical power.

Normally the generator is attached to one of the spools, sometimes via another shaft and gearbox. But this coupling means that electrical generation is tied to spoil speed and hence throttle setting. So max thrust = max offtake power.

Normally the generator is attached to one of the spools, sometimes via another shaft and gearbox. But this coupling means that electrical generation is tied to spoil speed and hence throttle setting. So max thrust = max offtake power.

I guess you could theoretically have some kind of clutch-type mechanism.

Older generation turbofans and its generators (alternator) were connected via a constant speed drive for constant generation frequency and output power (Constant Speed Constant Frequency). Newer generations are getting rid of these mechanical mechanisms and are replacing it with electrical means, thus realizing Variable Speed Constant Frequency generation. For a shaft-integrated generator like the E2SG of RR it wouldn't be all that different compared to other military and civilian VSCF applications beforehand.

 

[La-Fuente Technologies]

New UK-Japan-Italy fighter takes shape, with electronics details emerging - Breaking Defense

“More than half the things this aircraft can do is because of its sensors,” said Masahiko Arai, Senior General Manager, Defense Systems Division, Mitsubishi Electric.

breakingdefense.com

Also, Sweden's possible membership in the GCAP program is now seen as unlikely by the industry partners involved:

Sweden joining UK-Japan-Italy fighter effort seen as unlikely by industry partners - Breaking Defense

According to Andrew Howard, Leonardo UK’s Director for Future combat Air/GCAP UK, Sweden is “not seen as an integral part of the partnership at this time.”

breakingdefense.com

 

[TomcatViP]

I don't think there is much differences regarding what everyone was expecting. Sweden link to GCAP effort lies mainly probably more with shared system and key components. Just like it had been for ever now.

But I wonder if a lack of NATO membership would affect their decision.

 

[FighterJock]

I would not see Sweden's decision not to be a member of GCAP at present as done and dusted, I would think that they would possibly return into the program in the near future depending on what happens in Sweden post Gripen E.

 

[La-Fuente Technologies]

I would not see Sweden's decision not to be a member of GCAP at present as done and dusted, I would think that they would possibly return into the program in the near future depending on what happens in Sweden post Gripen E.

Sweden has their own Fifth-Generation fighter aircraft program announced sometime ago, known as the Flygsystem 2020. Whether that will mean they might be too busy to contribute development to GCAP or possibly ask for some assets or resources on GCAP to use for their own development is still up in the air.

 

[Flyaway]

The Ministry of Defence has awarded £650m to manufacturers working on its Tempest fighter jet, in the latest sign that the UK is pushing forward with the aim of producing the aircraft by 2035.

The companies who will receive the money are led by manufacturer BAE Systems, jet engine maker Rolls-Royce, and the UK arms of Italy’s Leonardo and European missile-maker MBDA.

Ministry of Defence awards £650m to firms working on Tempest fighter jet

BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce among those funded, with aim of producing new aircraft by 2035

www.theguardian.com