Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) UK-Japan-Italy

Maro.Kyo said:
There's a key difference between UK, a NATO member, and Japan, is that UK is responsible for the defnece of its allies in the NATO's Eastern flank; Japan is not for Taiwan. NATO regularly deploys BAP and there are several NATO GBAD batteries from Western European member nations deployed to Eastern European allied territories. UK for example has one of their five Sky Sabres batteries forward deployed in Poland.

This also means there are grand total of two Sky Sabre batteries stationed in Britain, as the other two are deployed in the Falklands. If anything, the differences in how Britain is armed in terms of GBAD and comparing that to Japan should give a good idea why it's such an apple to oranges comparison to directly compare both countries' ADIZ and its EEZ when it comes to air power projection requirements. JSDF is really just that, a self defense force, while British Armed Forces aren't.
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Remember how close Okinawa is to Taiwan.

Any fighting around Taiwan will require the effective neutralization of the bases at Okinawa by China.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Remember how close Okinawa is to Taiwan.

Any fighting around Taiwan will require the effective neutralization of the bases at Okinawa by China.
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Doesn't change the fact that flying from Tsuiki or Nyutabaru to Okinawa is still closer than flying to Taiwan. Even if we consider Ishigaki, there is more than several hundreads of km of difference, which means there is a considerable difference in loiter/playtime.

Also, if you are to defend Taiwan, you're not fighting over Taiwan but over Taiwan straight.

There definitely is a non-negligible difference in distance.

More importantly, none of that really matters in terms of what I'm conveying.
 
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Maro.Kyo said:
The actual frontline is NATO's frontline, not the ADIZ.
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I would argue that GCAP's frontline in UK service will be the GIUK Gap and the eastern Atlantic, not NATO's frontline. That will remain Typhoon / F-35's domain.

Russian strategic assets can launch ALCMs from their North Cape bastion against NATO's flank and rear echelons, the long way around and in the 'back door'. GCAP seems well suited to countering that, rather than acting as tacair over the FLOT.

GCAP is a 6th Gen Fiddler / Foxhound.
 
Odds are that the GCAP will be in service for a long time. I imagine it'll be pressed into all kinds of jobs over the years, especially after older platforms are retired. A big, long range stealth platform with a large IWB and a billion sensors should have a lot of uses. It'll be interesting to see how each countries aircraft diverge over time.

Geopollicalics is an ever shifting desert, the concerns of today might not matter tomorrow. By the time Tempest is ready, the UK's attention might be elsewhere.
 
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snne said:
AFAIK some IRSTs already come with laser range finders. As a semi-related side note, this is the reason why Aselsan's developing laser warning systems as a component of the Integrated EO System for the Kaan fighter. I expect this to be a popular application on next generation fighter aircraft going forward.
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Praetorian DASS on Typhoon has Laser Warning Receivers.
 
www.gov.uk

Military 'silent hangar' to help protect against foreign GPS jamming

A new test facility, one of the largest in Europe, will help military kit to be better protected from attempts to jam GPS devices.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Pictured existing QinetiQ facility
QBD6756-121.jpg
 
I came across this artwork of Concept Class 5, the DSEI Japan/WDS Tempest/GCAP and 'F-3' (maybe on Twitter) but now can't find it so don't know who produced it, and therefore how much credence to give it.

But I did think that the size difference between Concept Class Five and the WDS/DSEI Japan GCAP configuration was interesting. I'd lazily assumed that Concept Class Five was the same size as P189-17B and all the other Tempest configurations we've seen over the years.

Does anyone recognise the artwork?

Concept 5:GCAP:F3 evolution.jpeg
What do we all think of the sizing?
 
Jackonicko said:
I came across this artwork of Concept Class 5, the DSEI Japan/WDS Tempest/GCAP and 'F-3' (maybe on Twitter) but now can't find it so don't know who produced it, and therefore how much credence to give it.

But I did think that the size difference between Concept Class Five and the WDS/DSEI Japan GCAP configuration was interesting. I'd lazily assumed that Concept Class Five was the same size as P189-17B and all the other Tempest configurations we've seen over the years.

Does anyone recognise the artwork?

View attachment 738905
What do we all think of the sizing?
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Looks like something Buchmaru would make

x.com

x.com x.com
 
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Basic summary:
  • Finally instead of GCAP being mostly independent research guided by the respective countries with info and tech sharing between the nations, its moving to integrated joint development. Basically instead of each country making development decision and directly funding them, it appears they all pay their respective dues towards GIGO and then funding distribution and decisions will be made internally. Right now this mainly just concerns the airframe and engine.
  • Engine research and design independently carried out by Japan, UK, and Italy will be consolidated
  • Systems that don't directly concern the GCAP airframe are still independent programs and Japan's next gen MRAAM tentative name XAAM-6 is still independent.
  • Research on networking for combat drones
  • Rehash, Japan sending 112.7 bil yen/ $776.8 mil to GIGO for airframe and engine research. Also there is preparations for performance confirmation tests.
  • Continuation from last years budget for the actual AI for UCAVs added 12.9 bil yen/ $88.9 mil
  • 59 bil yen/ $40.6 mil for next MRAAM. It does specify it's for GCAP, so unknown if it will be retroactively added to F-15JSI or F-2.
 
FY 2024 Japanese administrative business review.
Abstract：
There are 6 prototyping projects for next generation fighter are now going on.
Mostly as scheduled.
Collaborative work will start from next year.

NGF(next gen fighter, engine system, ? and ?? )
rssystem.go.jp

行政事業レビュー見える化サイト | RSシステム

政府が実施する予算事業や基金事業の情報のデータベースです。 事業の概要、成果目標や実績、支出先などを、関心・目的に応じて、自由に検索・閲覧できます。
rssystem.go.jp rssystem.go.jp

Mission system integration
rssystem.go.jp

行政事業レビュー見える化サイト | RSシステム

政府が実施する予算事業や基金事業の情報のデータベースです。 事業の概要、成果目標や実績、支出先などを、関心・目的に応じて、自由に検索・閲覧できます。
rssystem.go.jp rssystem.go.jp

Next MRAAM
rssystem.go.jp

行政事業レビュー見える化サイト | RSシステム

政府が実施する予算事業や基金事業の情報のデータベースです。 事業の概要、成果目標や実績、支出先などを、関心・目的に応じて、自由に検索・閲覧できます。
rssystem.go.jp rssystem.go.jp
 
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Great links. Thank you.

Here is the relevant part mentioning the 6 proto, as translated in English:
'
Current situation and issues
Currently, the development of the next generation fighter jet is underway, with six prototype projects progressing as planned, aiming to begin operation in FY2025. In addition, the GIGO Treaty was signed in December 2023 with the aim of establishing the Global Combat Aviation Programme International Government Organisation (GIGO) for joint development between Japan, the UK and Italy. In order for the schedule to progress as planned, it is important that domestic and international coordination regarding the establishment of GIGO etc. progress without delay.
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Remark: in the MRAAM, no fund is allocated?
 
Japan Aerospace Exhibition 2024 has opened. Nothing new about GCAP though, BAE Systems said they will complete the final design process in 2025.

Meanwhile, MHI showcased two new AI-powered drones that will operate alongside GCAP. One is supersonic air to air version(can be modified to ISR version by replacing the wings), and the other one is for air to ground and precision reconnaissance which is derived from the long-range cruise missile.


image-1729053312112.jpg

GZ_cVPNb0AA8cHN.jpg

GZ_cVPMb0AEj08T.jpg

image-1729054274849.jpeg

PR movie: start at 4:12
 
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Ares said:
Japan Aerospace Exhibition 2024 has opened. Nothing new about GCAP though, BAE Systems said they will complete the final design process in 2025.

Meanwhile, MHI showcased two new AI-powered drones that will operate alongside GCAP. One is supersonic air to air version(can be modified to ISR version by replacing the wings), and the other one is for air to ground and precision reconnaissance which is derived from the long-range cruise missile.


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PR movie: start at 4:12
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is there any comments for supersonic? supersonic capable engine is not good option for isr variants. IMHO
 
litzj said:
is there any comments for supersonic? supersonic capable engine is not good option for isr variants. IMHO
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No official confirmation yet, but apparently the engine may have afterburner, so I'm guessing it might have limited supersonic cruise capability in its combat mode.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846812609754157551
View: https://x.com/kleinenf/status/1846812609754157551

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846843423065887112
View: https://x.com/kleinenf/status/1846843423065887112
 
Ares said:
Japan Aerospace Exhibition 2024 has opened. Nothing new about GCAP though, BAE Systems said they will complete the final design process in 2025.

Meanwhile, MHI showcased two new AI-powered drones that will operate alongside GCAP. One is supersonic air to air version(can be modified to ISR version by replacing the wings), and the other one is for air to ground and precision reconnaissance which is derived from the long-range cruise missile.


View attachment 744280
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Is ARMDC-20x this thing? :
Maro.Kyo said:
New Japanese long-range loitering surveillance vehicle for target acquisition and a submarine launched version of the type-12-based stand-off missile.

The former is quite an interesting one which seems to be either based on the type-12-based stand-off or the Kawasaki New Long-Range Island Defence ASM. It has a much wider wing for loitering performances compared to either one of them. It was mentioned that it will be used as one of the primary target acquisition sources for the new long range missiles and will be able to acquire targets at least at the maximum range of improved type-12 on maritime environment and over land.
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View attachment 1000009526.png
 
Ares said:
Meanwhile, MHI showcased two new AI-powered drones that will operate alongside GCAP. One is supersonic air to air version(can be modified to ISR version by replacing the wings), and the other one is for air to ground and precision reconnaissance which is derived from the long-range cruise missile.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting mix. Supersonic capable plus an ISR variant, I'd assume with subsonic wings. Using a stealthy cruise missile for recon is pretty self-obvious.
 
Ares said:
More pictures of the MHI CCA model, and a CGI video of the good old NGF model from IHI booth.
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Sorry, I should put these materials by myself, however need time to edit IHI PV movies because people reflected in at the monitor when black out scenes.
Someone had already uploaded this movie.
My feeling was this PV movie is best ever GCAP consortium released!(like as Ace combat)
 
Since Japan is planning to develop their own UAS adjunct in cooperation with the US, while UK is going to develop their collaborative combat drone with Germany, I wonder what Italy will do? Join hands with Spain? Conversely, I wonder how high the possibilities are for Spain and Italy to join in on Brit-German UAS programme.

It seems like everyone rather wants their own piece of the UAS pie, since it is definitely going to grow into a huge market. Perhaps even bigger than that of manned fighter demand in the future? I think how things are turning out in the SCAF front in regards to the new French UCAV is quite indicative. Iirc, UCAV was supposed to be Germany's responsibility.

I think Italy could soldier alone if they need to do so on developing combat UAS, both financially and technologically, but I'd imagine that they would definitely want at least one partner for the economy of scale.
 

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