Gibbs & Cox International Frigate

TomS said:
Yes, I believe a version of the Internaitonal Frigate was the G&C offer for AWD.

PS: You know you did this same picture a couple of years ago...

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16942.0/nowap.html
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Epic facepalm. :'( I have been searching for information concerning the Gibbs & Cox frigate concept presented to the United States Navy as replacement for the Perry-class.


TomS said:
Of possible interest, a paper on naval applications of cryo-cooled motors. If uses the G&C International Frigate as a case study for the potential weight savings of cryo-cooled motors in an all-electric propulsion system.

http://www.nps.edu/Academics/Institutes/Meyer/docs/SI4000/Seminar_topics_14/050818Thome.pdf
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Thank you, TomS.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1867048850835509260
View: https://x.com/SA_Defensa/status/1867048850835509260


Gibbs & Cox 110m International Class Frigate.jpg

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT2UPdyNRAQ

Ship is currently in production with an Allied nation of the US set for delivery less than 18 months.
So this program will go from concept through design to delivery in three years.
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www.navalnews.com

Taiwan Starts Construction of New Light ASW Frigate - Naval News

On 16 January 2024, the Taiwanese state news agency CNA reported that construction of the Taiwanese navy’s new light frigate, which specializes in anti-submarine warfare, has begun.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
Gibbs and Cox light frigate design on display during SNA 2024.JPG
 
57mm makes me want to vomit blood though. Might as well make it a Phalanx at that point.

3" has (had?) better natures of ammunition too.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
"This model features a different configuration with an impressive 32x NSM launchers."

Is that forward VLS also packing NSMs then?
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Well atleast not possible anytime soon so be probaly mispsoke.
Scott Kenny said:
Because I'm only counting 12x NSM boxes per side amidships, not 16x.

I'd want ASROCs and ESSMs in the VLS, not NSMs. (Or equivalent missiles of local manufacture)
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On that note something like ADL could probaly be mounted on it.
 
Kat Tsun said:
57mm makes me want to vomit blood though. Might as well make it a Phalanx at that point.

3" has (had?) better natures of ammunition too.
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It's literally a coin flip, 57mm fires a bit faster, 76mm has heavier shells, until you start playing with sabot rounds. For the USN, the 57mm brings at least one and possibly more guided rounds.
 
The Navy seemed dissatisfied with the performance of the original proximity fuzed BAE/Bofors 3P 57mmMk295 rounds for the Mk110 gun, which comes with two ready use 20 round magazines, then came the DARPA Raytheon Mad-Fires round and followed by the Navy L3Harris ALaMO anti-swarm round (the ALaMO was only for boghammars with a max effective range in the Mk110 of 10km/5.4nm) both rounds added guidance to minimize effects of dispersion to increase hit probability as the range increases and they both seem to have disappeared into limbo land. In Oct. '23 the Navy awarded a new development contract to Northrup Grumman for a self-guided round, effective for use against both AA for drones and surface anti-swarm Iranian boghammars.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMwWQktNlPk&t=1s
 
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Cordy said:
The Navy seemed dissatisfied with the performance of the original proximity fuzed BAE/Bofors 3P 57mmMk295 rounds for the Mk110 gun, which comes with two ready use 20 round magazines, then came the DARPA Raytheon Mad-Fires round and followed by the Navy L3Harris ALaMO anti-swarm round (the ALaMO was only for boghammars with a max effective range in the Mk110 of 10km/5.4nm) both rounds added guidance to minimize effects of dispersion to increase hit probability as the range increases and they both seem to have disappeared into limbo land. In Oct. '23 the Navy awarded a new development contract to Northrup Grumman for a self-guided round, effective for use against both AA for drones and surface anti-swarm Iranian boghammars.
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Do you think the USN was any happier about the effectiveness of unguided 76mm prox? Probably not, or they would have specified that gun for LCS.

Guns in general, absent guided projectiles, suck for this sort of thing.
 
TomS said:
Do you think the USN was any happier about the effectiveness of unguided 76mm prox? Probably not, or they would have specified that gun for LCS.

Guns in general, absent guided projectiles, suck for this sort of thing.
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No chance the 76mm gun would have been fitted to the LCS due to its heavier weight as both classes were severely weight constrained and why they were forced to pick the lighter 57mm 6 pounder gun and introduce a new gun and caliber for the Navy, the 57mm only previously used during the 1880s-1900s.
 
Cordy said:
No chance the 76mm gun would have been fitted to the LCS due to its heavier weight as both classes were severely weight constrained and why they were forced to pick the lighter 57mm 6 pounder gun and introduce a new gun and caliber for the Navy, the 57mm only previously used during the 1880s-1900s.
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The OTO Compact mount without ammo weighs ~7.4 tons.

The Bofors SAK 57 Mk 3 mount without ammo weighs ~7.5 tons.

There was no weight savings from selecting the 57mm.
 
Slightly different figures, BAE quote Mk110 with 1,000 rds as 14mt, Leonardo quote the OTO Melara 76/62 Super Rapid empty as 7.9mt plus 1,000 rds 12.3 mt for total of approx. 20.2 mt, plus it would need a stronger/heavier structure to support the heavier recoil of the 76mm gun which uses a 300% larger propellant charge than the 57mm

PS The earlier overweight Independence Class weight reduction report, one item chosen to save weight was they reduced the size of the structural beams supporting the flight deck so it could no longer take the weight of a Sea Stallion landing on its large flight deck showing as said how weight constrained the LCS's are and how every ton saved was vital.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
And Oto 76mm has Vulcano and DART.
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These came after the 57mm began development of ALaMO IIRC, to be fair. It also needs a special radar inclusive mount for DART.

AFAIK the 3" Vulcano is actually still vaporware.

Practical value of the 3"/62 is mostly in shore bombardment and the volume of the shell itself being more amenable to guided munitions, but ALaMO eventually worked, while DART took literally 30 years to get functional. Had DART and its antecedents not been so torturous to make, perhaps the 3" would have remained.

57mm had a proven pedigree with the 3P VT fuse rounds anyway but it's still a basically direct fire ordnance.
 
There were proposed versions of LCS with 76mm guns. They aren't that tight, especially considering how variable the mission module payload weight was.
 
Kat Tsun said:
These came after the 57mm began development of ALaMO IIRC, to be fair. It also needs a special radar inclusive mount for DART.

AFAIK the 3" Vulcano is actually still vaporware.
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Not really. There have been guided versions of 76mm in development for a couple of decades, well before ALaMO.
 
TomS said:
Not really. There have been guided versions of 76mm in development for a couple of decades, well before ALaMO.
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I looked it up and DART delivered 5 years before Mk 332 so yeah I had it backwards ig.
 
Cordy said:
Slightly different figures, BAE quote Mk110 with 1,000 rds as 14mt, Leonardo quote the OTO Melara 76/62 Super Rapid empty as 7.9mt plus 1,000 rds 12.3 mt for total of approx. 20.2 mt, plus it would need a stronger/heavier structure to support the heavier recoil of the 76mm gun which uses a 300% larger propellant charge than the 57mm
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You don't need 1000 rounds of 76mm to equal the effect of 1000 rounds of 57mm. And if my brain is working correctly this late at night, you can get a 76mm with 750 rounds for 14 tonnes.
 

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