Georges Botali Airplanes

[hesham]

Hi,

this French designer worked at de Marçay,and created a tourer aircraft
and a fighter,he designed a biplane with Mandelli in 1933,followed by
PAMA monoplane.

With Mr. Rexovice developed a record breaker high-wing monoplane,with
fixed main landing gear, and single 350 hp engine.

Les Ailes : journal hebdomadaire de la locomotion aérienne / directeur, rédacteur en chef, Georges Houard | 1935-12-12 | Gallica

 

[hesham]

From Aerophile 1934.

 

[hesham]

What was this ?,

In 1937, it seems that Georges Botali started the construction of a new light aircraft in a factory in Courbevoie.

TU 171.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Given the year, some sort of artillery spotter or the like?

 

[Apophenia]

What was this ?,

In 1937, it seems that Georges Botali started the construction of a new light aircraft in a factory in Courbevoie.

This is a reference to the Type 10 biplane designed by Botali in 1935 for the then-new société Aviana. Obviously construction was underway in 1937 but I'm not sure when the prototype Type 10 was completed. (The Type 10 wasn't registered until Dec 1938 - as FW-007/F-AROQ.)

The Aviana biplane wasn't selected as an Aviation Populaire type so no production was undertaken at the société Aviana plant in Courbevoie (Hauts-de-Seine, just outside of Paris).

BTW: In some sources, the Aviana Type 10 is attributed to a "Gaston Botali". I can only find one other online reference to Gaston Botali (as a diesel engine designer). On names ... I've also seen Botali (mis)listed as George rather than Georges.

 

[dan_inbox]

Aviana 10 was selected by the Air Ministry for testing for "Sections de l'Aviation Populaire".
That's "People's Aviation Platoons". Cute and bittersweet vintage bolshevist rhetoric, such was the parlance of Front Popu, the alliance of SFIO (French Section of the Workers' International) and PCF (Parti Communiste Français) which came to power in 1936.

Unfortunately my files don't reference the newspaper this article comes from. Any clues welcome

 

[VictorXL188]

Here's a pic of the Botali du Rivau PAMA type 1.

 

[avion ancien]

Aviana 10 was selected by the Air Ministry for testing for "Sections de l'Aviation Populaire".
That's "People's Aviation Platoons". Cute and bittersweet vintage bolshevist rhetoric, such was the parlance of Front Popu, the alliance of SFIO (French Section of the Workers' International) and PCF (Parti Communiste Français) which came to power in 1936.

Unfortunately my files don't reference the newspaper this article comes from. Any clues welcome

It's from Les Ailes.

 

[hesham]

What was this ?,

In 1937, it seems that Georges Botali started the construction of a new light aircraft in a factory in Courbevoie.

TU 171.

Are you sure about this my dears ?,but why they didn't mention its name ?.

- TU 136

 

[dan_inbox]

In 1937, it seems that Georges Botali started the construction of a new light aircraft in a factory in Courbevoie.

Are you sure about this my dears ?,but why they didn't mention its name ?.

This is all about the Aviana-10, which apparently was designed in 35 or before, and its selection for Sections de l'Aviation Populaire in 37. Then certified by CEMA's testing in 38 and isued final reg F-AROQ in December 38. Then abandoned when it didn't win the SAP contract, and finally burnt by the nazis after the invasion.

From the evidence, Botali did not "start a new light aircraft" in 37, but found an investor to finance submitting a prototype to the Aviation Populaire contest. This was done under a new company called Aviana, and was unsuccessful. Basically that failure was the end of it.

 

[Apophenia]

Are you sure about this my dears ?,but why they didn't mention its name ?.

- TU 136

Umm, they do mention its designation: "... le type 10, biplan biplace ..."

 

[Stargazer]

A few mistakes in this topic need fixing:

• Botali's first name was Georges, not Gaston.
• He developed his diesel-type engine with André Rexovice, not "Rexonice".
• The airplane that Botali supposedly started in 1937 had to be a new type. All his previous prototypes were built in 1934-1935.

Just to recapitulate Botali's contributions in chronological order:

• 1919: One of Botali's earliest creations was the De Marçay "Passe-Partout", a very light biplane with a 12 hp ABC engine.
  
  
• 1923: Botali designs the Type 4 C1 single-seat fighter for De Marçay's S.A.E.C.A. company (Société Anonyme d'Études et de Constructions Aéronautiques). It was powered by a 300 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Fb engine and performed beautifully, but was unfortunately lost in a fatal crash in April 1923. It is more than likely that Botali was also involved to some extent in the design of all the other post-war De Marçay prototypes.
  
  
• 1933-34: Botali-Mandelli single-seat biplane with 35 hp Poinsard engine; this was the very first light aircraft to fully conform to the requirement of Air Minister Pierre Cot for an affordable popular aircraft; Avions Bernard promised Mandelli to produce 50 machines under supervision by Jarlaud, but never delivered. This, plus the administrative hassle by the French authorities to approve the aircraft led Mandelli to suicide in March 1935.
  
  
• 1934: Botali-Du Rivau P.A.M.A. Type 1 single-seat high-wing motorglider with 20 hp Poinsard engine. It followed upon the principle of very light affordable machine of its predecessor. "PAMA" meant Construction de Planeurs À Moteur Auxiliaire (construction of gliders with auxiliary power); a production of 25 machines and a two-seat version were considered but never happened.
  
  
• 1935: Rexovice-Botali "raid" aircraft. Botali and Rexovice developed both the 350 hp two-stroke 16-liter Diesel engine ("U" shape, 8-cylinders) and the aircraft that was to use it. Although completed, the aircraft never flew. The project was abandoned for lack of funds, and besides, Rexovice died on 16 August 1936 in a fatal airplane crash.
  
  
• 1935: Aviana Type 10. Botali designed this sleek tandem-seat biplane for the newly-formed company, which never had any other product. The sole prototype used a 78 hp Régnier 4D2 engine. It received provisional registration F-W007, which was replaced in 1938 by F-AROQ.
  
  
• 1939: Renaudeau "Avia-Sport 10". Roger Renaudeau's single-seat staggered-wing biplane was a direct development of the Botali-Mandelli prototype of 1934. It used a 35 hp Poinsard 2NY engine, and was eventually registered as F-PEPX after the war. An "Avia-Sport 10-A" on sale in 1955, possibly the same aircraft, used a 32 hp Mengin type instead. I haven't been able to establish if Botali was involved in any way or approved the project.

 

[Arjen]

A few mistakes in this topic need fixing:

• Botali's first name was Georges, not Gaston.

Topic title now says Goerges, not Georges.

 

[Stargazer]

Topic title now says Goerges, not Georges.

I know, hesham modified the title but couldn't write the name properly.
Since I didn't want to get in his hair (he's been a little touchy of late), I let it pass...

 

[hesham]

I fixed it,

https://www.peanut-scale.fr/cervia/63p1518.pdf

 

[Stargazer]

I fixed a mistake I made about the De Marçay "Passe-Partout". There was only one version, produced in 1919 and presented at the Paris Salon in December 1919.

 

[Stargazer]

Georges Botali apparently didn't just design the "Passe-Partout" for De Marçay. This extract from a 1924 article about Georges Lebeau in L'Aérophile clearly states that Botali was De Marçay's friend, and that he also designed "a pursuit airplane of very original and modern conception (...) powered by a 300 hp Hispano-Suiza engine." This can only be the ill-fated S.A.E.C.A. Type 4 C1 fighter. Indeed, the only other new fighter design from De Marçay was the Type 5 C1, which would have used a 370 hp Lorraine engine but was never completed.
True, by the time the article came out in April 1924, the prototype had already been lost for nearly a year in a fatal crash, killing Captain Albert Deullin at Villacoublay on 29 May 1923... However, the second clipping below (June 1924, same publication)proves that a second, identical prototype was built and test-flown in 1924.
Additionally, the article explains that De Marçay and Botali also developed together a firewall.

 

[Apophenia]

A few mistakes in this topic need fixing:

Botali's first name was Georges, not Gaston
He developed his diesel-type engine with André Rexovice, not "Rexonice". [...]

Interesting. So this online "Gaston Botali" was a complete will-o'-wisp and Georges Botali (with André Rexovice) was also the diesel engine designer!