GENERAL DYNAMICS PROPOSAL MODEL (What is it?)

[allysonca]

This is the last of the models from my friends collection. He was a great source for a lot of rare and never seen models over the years. As I had mentioned in other posts I was able to obtain the entire Fish and Kingfish models that were produced, a plethora of F-16 in-house, AX-FX, Tandem F111B, Cruise Missile Launcher Transport, and THIS......


He was great at saving things from the trash, badgering engineers for samples, and just finding the gems and saving them from a life of obscurity.



I have no clue what it is, but given the source I know for certain that its not a foo fighter or spoofer. It measures almost 33 inches in length and 22 inches tip to tip.


So...... have at it guys and give it your best shot!

 

[TomS]

Are you sure its GD? It reminds me of this image associated with the Long-Range Strike Bomber.

http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/next_generation_bomber.files/lockheed_martin_long_range_strike_1.jpg

Edit: very close to the version discussed here.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,191.msg9437.html#msg9437

 

[Orionblamblam]

That was my first thought as well. After a closer examination of the photos and art... it's still my second thought. The model does look old, though.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Side view of the front fuselage might be helpful in judging the scale better?

 

[allysonca]

I am 100000000 % sure it came from GD. No doubt about it. I'll take some side shots as post soon. Of great import... look at the canopy and fighter bubble and not a bomber cabin, so it is most decidedly not related to those other posts. Fun isn't it when a goodie like this pops up from the nether reaches.

 

[allysonca]

Oh.. I forgot to pot the top view. Sorry..........

 

[allysonca]

Here is a quickie side view.... I sure needs vertical fins ......

 

[allysonca]

Well.... on reflection it could be a cab.....errrr.. well, geeze I HATE when I don't know for sure.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Some things to consider

1) Let's assume that it is indeed GD
2) The bomber is a Lockheed design
3) The GD plane model looks fairly old - aging effects & dirt & such
4) Who owns GD these days?

So... one might be forgiven for speculating that this was a GD design from back in the day (80's, perhaps) that got recycled by Lockheed when they bought GD.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The exhaust arrangement appears to indicate four engines. Which puts it in the bomber class. Maybe a B-1B, or B-2A competitor?

 

[sferrin]

Some things to consider

1) Let's assume that it is indeed GD
2) The bomber is a Lockheed design
3) The GD plane model looks fairly old - aging effects & dirt & such
4) Who owns GD these days?

So... one might be forgiven for speculating that this was a GD design from back in the day (80's, perhaps) that got recycled by Lockheed when they bought GD.

My thoughts as well. First thing that came to mind was the LM bomber design and that LM now owns GD.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Using the old high contrast trick the shaping on the underside becomes very visable. Any chance you could take a couple of nose on pictures from below the nose Allysonca? Just to check out those fine lines. Won't tell us what it is but it does look nice.

 

[quellish]

Some things to consider

1) Let's assume that it is indeed GD
2) The bomber is a Lockheed design
3) The GD plane model looks fairly old - aging effects & dirt & such
4) Who owns GD these days?

So... one might be forgiven for speculating that this was a GD design from back in the day (80's, perhaps) that got recycled by Lockheed when they bought GD.

In the late 70s and early 80s GD Ft. Worth did quite a bit of work on supersonic cruise vehicles and the dorsal inlets were a consistent feature. I have seen a similar propulsion configuration on a delta that came out of Ft. Worth between 1983 and 1986.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Some thoughts


33 inches length 22 inches span model

Assume 1/48 scale = 39.84m length 26.8 m span = ?
Assume 1/32 scale = 26.56m length 17.88m span = FB-111 class
Assume 1/24 scale = 19.92m length 13.4m span = ATF class


Its definitely a supercruise looking design. Doesn't immediately look like it has obvious large capacity weapons bay local.


It has good planform alignment, but the intakes seem a little odd. Nozzles do look like 4 engines, some A-12 Avenger II family resemblance perhaps? In some ways it looks like the descendant of Sneaky Pete in the same way the Northrop Christmas Tree Fighter is a descendant of the B-2 layout.


Cold Pigeon:

Sneaky Pete:

ATF VLO

It does look like a canopy shaped bulge at the front, making it look like a fighter design. Its not an obvious feature to add to a larger design as it will cost in drag.


My guess - supercruise optimised stealth ATF design. Except for the possible 4 engines.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Publicly released back in the 80s "ATF" design

Some actual ATF designs

 

[Mr London 24/7]

Reminds me of STAV:

http://www.arnold.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080401-F-9114G-010.jpg

Guess same basic shape has been around the block a few times with more than one manufacturer.

My guess is from some unknown GD ISR/Strike lineage - (didn't think early-Eighties super-cruise had this shaping?) later scaled up by LMSW as same mission/nice artwork on LRS-B. If you can't sell it once!....

Maybe Codeone can say?

 

[Sundog]

I'm also thinking that could be the first stage of a TSTO launch system? The bottom of it just looks like it was designed for some kind of conformal carriage with that flat under surface area. Then again, if it was a first stage it wouldn't need the stealth features. That just makes me think of something from the 80's, where they were looking at conformal carry weapons a lot. Then again, maybe it's flat like that because they needed the internal volume for stowing the MLG bogies. O.K. L.M., it's time to release some drawings for us on this design from Code One.

Oh, I do agree this is the exact same design we've seen on Popular Science, etc., released by L.M. (Though I do believe it a G.D. design) What better way to show an advanced design that's never been seen before but hasn't anything to do with what you're currently working on, other than it has stealth features and it's an airplane? To me, it has a lot of qualities seen in the YF-23, so it could represent mid to late 80's stealth tech, but that seems odd given their A-12 design and ATF submission. I'm more inclined to believe this is something that came out of the G.D. offices in TX in the early 90's, even though they were owned by LM then.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I have been told that one reason early stealth projects are still mostly classified is that successful stealth shapes may get reused later. It might not have been right for that requirement, but a new requirement might come where the old shape can be ressurrected and dusted off for a new role.

 

[Stargazer]

Some things to consider

1) Let's assume that it is indeed GD
2) The bomber is a Lockheed design
3) The GD plane model looks fairly old - aging effects & dirt & such
4) Who owns GD these days?

So... one might be forgiven for speculating that this was a GD design from back in the day (80's, perhaps) that got recycled by Lockheed when they bought GD.

My thinking exactly!!

 

[flateric]

once more, a strikingly close resemblence

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Indeed. Its only the intakes which are different.


I wonder if the model is missing the forward triangular panels from the intakes - this would actually make some sense because they seem out of place otherwise.

 

[VTOLicious]

Indeed. Its only the intakes which are different.
I wonder if the model is missing the forward triangular panels from the intakes - this would actually make some sense because they seem out of place otherwise.

 

[allysonca]

You are correct.. there are insets for a cover that made the inlets hollow. I will make these when I start restoration. It is going to be a fun project for sure.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

In which case, I'm going to say this the same design.

 

[allysonca]

Yepp... I'd say that it is one in the same.... who would have guessed that it came from a GD design. Wish my friend Roy were here to tell me where he found it...

 

[BioLuminescentLamprey]

Interesting find and thread. I concur with everyone that it's a dead ringer for the lockheed design. Well done.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yepp... I'd say that it is one in the same.... who would have guessed that it came from a GD design. Wish my friend Roy were here to tell me where he found it...

Well, GD were bought in 1993 - I'd say this from just around then. It still makes it 20+ years old.

 

[starviking]

Well, GD were bought in 1993 - I'd say this from just around then. It still makes it 20+ years old.

If the design offices were kept separate for sometime after the takeover, then the design could be younger.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Maybe it was a previous legacy design from the GD era. Perhaps LockMart looked at it for LRS and fixed it up acccordingly for LRS.

 

[xstatic3000]

Pure speculation on my part - but looking at the timeframe, I wonder if this was originally a GD proposal for the rumored high-speed component of AARS or some similar system? And could it be possible that with development and risk reduction completed years ago, Lockheed dusted off this old design and presented it as the FSA to give themselves a leg up on the competition?


This seems to be exactly what they did with the AARS design that surfaced a few years ago as the Lockheed/Boeing NGB.

 

[LowObservable]

It's quite possible that an old design would have been resurrected to generate some briefing art.


If there's one thing that has been learned here, it's that lots of people were looking at stealth and doing serious work before Have Blue.

 

[allysonca]

Hey everyone... A question was asked and it dawned on me that I never posted a picture of the finished product (all speculation of course)... so with a little fanfare.... taaaa daaaaa......

 

[bobbymike]

You made?

 

[allysonca]

No, I restored it from a fuselage that was recovered from the trash at General Dynamics.

 

[Sundog]

It looks great. How about a nice five view of the model (Front, side, rear, top, and bottom)?