Focke-Wulf Fw 191 "Kampfflugzeug" und das Bomber-B-Programm

[jzichek]

Stumbled across this new book on the Focke Wulf Fw 191:

http://www.stedinger-verlag.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=84


Format 21 x 28,5 cm, ca. 300 pages with 420 illustrations and photos - sounds impressive! I'd welcome a review from any German board members who have recently purchased this.


-Jared

 

[Johnbr]

To bad it is not in englsh.

 

[Wurger]

It`s an impressive book!!! Cart loads of illustrations hitherto unknown. Lots of interesting aspects about this development (Fw191). Unfortunatelly the other tenders have less materiel (Do317, Ju288). The Hs130E was ruled out of this competition, but with a few information. Interesting is the mention ( substanciated by original RLM documents) of a Heinkel project to the Bomber A program.

 

[jzichek]

Thanks Wurger! Will add it to my buy list; always been interested in this aircraft, surprised to see that this much material existed on it.

 

[Wurger]

Hi Jared,

Herr Dabrowski told me that there are about 5000 documents just in the NASM on this subject. He did, along with Peter Achs, a wonderful job scrutinizing all those papers.

 

[hesham]

Please my dear Jzichek,


what was this twin boom on the cover ?.

 

[jzichek]

The Arado E 340

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Jzichek.

 

[topspeed3]

Was it a fly by wire ?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJxrnOV9BlU

 

[HoHun]

Hi,

Was it a fly by wire ?

Hm, he claims it was. The video doesn't really doesn't provide solid documentation, though. (As it mentions an electrically-operated automatic pull-out mechanism which acts on the trim controls, there is a certain potential for misunderstandings ...)

The problem with all powered control surface actuation systems at the time was that they were non-reversible ... the aerodynamic forces acting on the rudders didn't feed back to the pilot.

Since the aerodynamic forces convey quite a lot of information, such as how close to stall you are, and also provide a way to "scale" the input appropriately with speed (to avoid overstressing the aircraft), that's a serious disadvantage. Post-war, designers came up with systems that alleviated this disadvantage, such as the generation of "artificial feel" based on dynamic pressure.

Of course, from what little I know, Focke-Wulf might have found just such a solution - or they might have discovered that their system wasn't really practical, as the video mentions that it was deleted in the prototype phase.

Here's an interesting video on a reversible technology of the era, the "synchro" ... however, I don't think it could have been used for actuating control surfaces without a servo-mechanism, which would have canceled the reversiblity.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QvoY4_xBjw


Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[robunos]

Was it a fly by wire ?

Not in the sense that we use 'Fly-by-Wire' today, but rather that all the systems were powered by electricity, rather than mechanically, hydraulically, or pneumatically. This, from 'The Warplanes of the Third Reich', page 221 :-

"One of the most unusual features of the Fw 191 was the use of
electrics for all systems. Every safety device or trimming control,
in fact, every item normally actuated mechanically or hydraulic-
ally was powered by an electric motor. Indeed, so numerous were
the Small electric motors that the aircraft was promptly dubbed
'Das Fliegende Kraftwerk', or Flying Power Station!
This extensiveuse of electrics had been made at the behest of the
research department of the RLM, the Forschungsabteilung, despite
protests from Focke-Wulf that such a concept was impracticable,
involving an immense 'electrical weight' and rendering the aircraft
extremely vulnerable in combat - one bullet passing through the
right place being sufficient to put the main systems and all
communications out of action!
As was anticipated, from the outset of flight testing the electrical
systems proved a constant source of trouble, a flight test rarely
being completed without one or other system failing."

and this, from 'German Aircraft of the Second World War', page 197 :-

"A condition of the Focke-Wulf contract was that the Fw I91 should be
designed with electrical systems throughout; this ill-founded and illogical
directive precluded any hydraulic or similar systems. however appropriate
they might be, and later earned the aircraft the appellation of Fliegendes
Kraftwerk (Flying Power Station)."

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Pasoleati]

Just worth noting is the fact that both the B-17 and the B-29 were basically all-electric aircraft (except wheelbrakes), so the Fw claim of "impracticable" is bollocks. And the same for the Do 17/217.

 

[kaiserd]

Isn’t this just confusion similar to that also seen for the FW190; Focke-Wulf just generally used more electric systems and hence less hydraulic systems than many of their contemporary aircraft manufacturers.
In that context they used certain electrically-driven flight control aids on certain sub-variants of some of their aircraft .

That is a LONG way from any serious suggestion that any WW2 era Focke-Wulf designs had “fly-by-wire” in any sense similar to or analogous of what our current understanding is of that term.

 

[Pasoleati]

Isn’t this just confusion similar to that also seen for the FW190; Focke-Wulf just generally used more electric systems and hence less hydraulic systems than many of their contemporary aircraft manufacturers.
In that context they used certain electrically-driven flight control aids on certain sub-variants of some of their aircraft .

That is a LONG way from any serious suggestion that any WW2 era Focke-Wulf designs had “fly-by-wire” in any sense similar to or analogous of what our current understanding is of that term.

Precisely so. Another example is the Bell P-39. It has electric operation for the flaps and landing gear.