Flying Saucer Technology

It's an excellent addition to the first volume
about disc wing- and flying saucer aircraft techno.
by the same author.
 
lark said:
It's an excellent addition to the first volume
about disc wing- and flying saucer aircraft techno.
by the same author.
Click to expand...


Yes my dear Lark,


I think so also,the Piana-Canova aircraft is from its additions.
 
Here's a U.S. designed Flying Saucer of sorts. See pdf -- SP
 

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The first book was much better. Someone decided to slice away some pages and references in this one, and the author claims he got into a bit of trouble for statements he never made. Get Flying Saucer Aircraft. Don't waste your time with the addition of the Frisbee toy or the Geobat. A real shame.
 
Hi everybody. I'm new in this forum. Last post here is quite old. Nobody interested in talk about Flying Saucer or better disc shaped aircraft real technology?
 

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Abyssadventurer said:
Hi everybody. I'm new in this forum. Last post here is quite old. Nobody interested in talk about Flying Saucer or better disc shaped aircraft real technology?
Click to expand...

This thread was opened to report on books about the subject, because this is the books subform.

You'll find the most updated posts on the topic locating the appropriate threads from the forums search engine. Note that you also have a little menu with related threads in this page, scrolling to the top right corner.
 
Part are made on Victor Schauberg technology on implosion and on vacuum. Part are made of Tesla thinking about creating a strong anti magnetic field.
the problem is that every electromagnet will melt due to the high current Bob Lazar claimed that in area 51 there were saucer that had an element with 115 atoms who could do anti gravity and in 2012 the Russians &American scientists synthesized Moscovium
 
WEAV (at the wiki) from the University of Florida is the latest attempt. I had forgotten Mr. Rose had a book on the subject. Update time!

Mr. Miranda here has nice drawings of PYE WACKET, a very strong missile. Raytheon had a huge saucer shaped AESA airship idea a decade or two back.

The largest and sadly most neglected real saucer spacecraft CONCEPT was Phil Bono’s HLLV saucer-rocket with with wide, Sea Dragon-class payloads in mind.

A lenticular Big Onion as it were…but launched lengthwise with a design that would lend itself to external aerospikes. Two Batman fins to either side…like a SuperFriends alien craft I saw on that cartoon as a child.

It demands artistic representation beyond the simple write-up at astronautix.com

I like it best because there is no questionable field effect handwavium—and because it is so wide that it helps keep cooler on re-entry. A recent JOURNAL OF SPACECRAFT AND ROCKETS article was on metal heatshields for planes…thinking you might get away with 304 stainless steel.

That would probably work best with lenticular designs that are as wide as you can make them.

Now Bono’s drawings of the ROOST saucer may have only been done with a TSTO spaceplane duo to show just how simple and small (in comparison mind you) the SSTO or stage-and-a-half-to-orbit ROOST rocket was when compared to the other two.

Still, a saucer HLLV rocket made of stainless might be a notion that deserves further attention. Some of the folks here write books on aerospace they wish they had as children. Art was better in those days.

Me? I can’t draw a straight line with a ruler.

Fortunately there are those who can do disk math:
phys.org

Mathematicians prove Pólya's conjecture for the eigenvalues of a disk, a 70-year-old math problem

Is it possible to deduce the shape of a drum from the sounds it makes? This is the kind of question that Iosif Polterovich, a professor in the Department of Mathematics and Statistics at Université de Montréal, likes to ask. Polterovich uses spectral geometry, a branch of mathematics, to...
phys.org phys.org


A sighting?
www.coasttocoastam.com

Watch: Strange 'Flying Saucer' Filmed by Reconnaissance Drone in Ukraine | Coast to Coast AM

A group of Ukrainian soldiers were left scratching their heads when their reconnaissance drone spotted a sizeable saucer-shaped object hovering in the sky.
www.coasttocoastam.com www.coasttocoastam.com
www.coasttocoastam.com

Knapp's News 2/25/24 | Coast to Coast AM

George Knapp shares recent items of interest, including Jeffrey Kripal's thoughts on UFOs, changing your mind on conspiracy theories, how A.I. can help the search for extraterrestrials, and zombie deer:
www.coasttocoastam.com www.coasttocoastam.com
phys.org

Study finds the West is best to spot UFOs

In July of 2023, retired commander in the U.S. Navy David Fravor testified to the House Oversight Committee about a mysterious, Tic Tac-shaped object that he and three others observed over the Pacific Ocean in 2004. The congressional hearings riveted the world by bringing Unidentified Anomalous...
phys.org phys.org
 
Last edited:
Not my cup of tea but noticed this has been published recently; UFOs Before Roswell: European Foo-Fighters 1940-1945. Looks like a comprehensive study of such encounters over Europe during the war, I've not read the book, only skimmed the preview in Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Before-Roswell-Foo-Fighters-1940-1945-ebook/dp/B09DRBHH1Z

Who knew that Sean Cahill, who witnessed the 'tic-tac' encounter in 2014 had a father who flew in B-17s during the war and saw 'Foo-Fighters' three times?
 
German Flying Saucers Bibliography

​

‘Die Realität der Flugscheiben’ by Andreas Epp, Michaels Vertrieb editor, 2002.

‘Flugscheiben-Realität oder Mythos: Gespräche mit dem Flugscheiben-Erfinder’, by Andreas Epp, Michaels Vertrieb editor, 2005.

‘Die deutschen Waffen und Geheimwaffen des 2. Weltkrieges und ihre Weiterentwicklung’ by Rudolf Lusar, J. F. Lehmann; Edition: 4., stark überarb. u. erw. Aufl. (1962).

Epp, Joseph Andreas, ‘U.S. Army Intelligence, Record Group 319, Box 186, File Number GE013347’. The National Archives at College Park, College Park, Maryland. - http://www.archives.gov/iwg/declassified-records/rg-319-army-staff/personal-name-files-new.html

‘Evaluation Reports (ER), Final Reports (FR) und Overall Reports der British Intelligence Subcommittee, Reports der Combined Intelligence Objectives Subcommittee (C.I.O.S.) und Field Intelligence Agency (F.I.A.T.)’.

‘Hitler’s Flying Saucers: A guide to German Flying Discs of the Second World War’ by Henry Stevens, Adventure Unlimited, 2013.

‘Flying Saucer Technology’ by Bill Rose, Midland, 2011.

‘Secret Projects- Flying Saucer Aircraft’, by Bill Rose & Tony Buttler, Midland, 2006.

‘Jet Planes of the Third Reich -The Secret projects -Volume One’, by Manfred Griehl, Monogram, 1998.

‘Secret Weapons of the Third Reich’ by Leslie E. Simon, WE, INC., Publishers, 1971.

‘Messerschmitt Me 328 Bordjäger’, by Paul Malmassari, Wingmasters Nº 2.

‘Der Fliegende Bierdeckel’, by Arthur Sack, Die Deutsche Sportflieger, November 1939.

‘Der Kreisflüger AS6 V1’, by Hans Justus Meier, Luftfahrt International 4/79.

‘Aktennotizen und Niederschriftender der ATG-Maschinenbau GmbH.’, Leipzig, von 4.2, 3.2, 17.4 und 18.5, 1944.

‘Veröffentlichungen zuden Modellen von Arthur Sack’, Der Flieger 11-12/1940.

‘Hochwertige Motorflugmodelle’, Der Deutsche Sportflieger, 9/1940.

‘Das Buch der Deutschen Luftfahrttechnik’, Bidteil, Mainz, 1970.

Der Flieger 4/1944.

Air International, March 1979.

‘Neue formen des Starrflügel-Flugzeuges’, by W. Zuerl, Der Flieger 1/1944.

‘Dreikomponentenmessungen an einem Kreisflügel mi zwei klappen’, by E. Hildenbrand, Aerodynamische Versuchsanstalt Göttingen, Beritche Nr.40/14/40 vom 3.8.1940 und 41/14/5 vom 21.2.1941.

‘Deutsche Kreisflügelflugzeuge’, Flugzeug Profile Nr.23.

‘Fliegender Bierdeckel’, by Volker Koos, Flug Revue 3/1994.

‘Kreisflügler Arthur Sack AS6’, by Volker Koos, Flug Revue 11/1998.

‘Saucers, Swastikas and Psyops’, by Joseph T. Farrell, Adventures Unlimited, 2011.

France Soir, June 27, 1952.

‘Erste Flugscheibe flog 1945 in Prag enthullt speers beauftragter’, by Georg Klein, Welt am Sonntag, April 25, 1953.

‘German Discs: UFO in the Third Reich’, Los Angeles Mirror, 24 March 1950.

Dortmund Newspaper, Westphalian Overview, 9 July 1947.

‘Deutsche Flugkreisel, Gab’s die?’ Luftfahrt International May/June 1975.

‘Projekt Flugkreisel’, by Rudolph Schriever, Bremerhavener Zeit entstanden.

‘Untertassen-Flieger Combination’, Der Spiegel, 30 March 1950.

‘Flugkreisel Irdisch’, Helm & Welt Nr.14, 2 April 1950.

‘Fliegende Untertassen’, Die 7 Tage Nr.26, June 1952.

‘Fliegende Untertasse’, Farb Illustrierte Nr.18, September 1952.

‘Fliegende Untertasse in Deutschland erfunden’, Deutsche Illustrierte, S.1350/51.

‘Secret Wings of WWII: Nazi Technology and the Allied Arms Race’, by Lance Cole, Pen & Sword Aviation, 2015.

‘Das gab’s die fliegende untertasse der deutschen Luftwaffe’, ZB Illustrierte für menschen in atomzeitalter Nr.25, December 1953.

‘Wunderwaffen 1945’, Bild am Sonntag, 17 February 1957.

‘Die UFOs, eine deutsche Erfindung’, Das neue Zeitalter Nr.41, October 1957.

‘Deutsche Kreisflügelflugzeuge’, by Hans Justus Meier, Flugzeug 2/89.

‘Deutsche Geheimwaffen und Wunderwaffen des II. Weltkrieges’, by Christof Friedrich, Samisdat Publishers, Canada.

‘Aeronautical Research in Germany: From Lilienthal until Today’, by Ernst Heinrich Hirschel, Springer 2012.

Henry Coanda Propelling Device Patents 2,157,281/2,131,472/2,108,653 (10 January 1936).

‘Applications of the Coanda Effect’, by Imants Reba, Scientific American, June 1966.

‘The Coanda Effect’, by R.S. Sproule and S.T. Robinson. CIOS Reports. File Nº IX (1), 1944.

‘The Vanishing Paperclips’ by Hans H. Amtmann, Monogram, 1988.

‘Ich flog als erster eine untertasse’, Kristall Nr.2, 1956.

‘Intercept but don’t shoot’, by Renato Vesco, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994.

‘Interceptarlos sin disparar’, by Renato Vesco, Ediciones 29, 1968.

‘Intercept UFO’, by Renato Vesco, Pinnacle Books, 1976.

‘Man-Made UFOS 1944-1994’, by Renato Vesco & David Hatcher, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994.

‘German Secret Weapons of World War 2’, by Rudolph Lusar, (Review by Reuters in the Washington Post, 18 February 1957.

‘German Secret Weapons of World War 2’, by Rudolph Lusar, Neville Spearman, 1959.

‘Die Deutschen Waffen und Geheimwaffen des 2. Weltkrieges und ihre Weiterentwicklung’, by Rudolph Lusar, J.F. Lehmans Verlag, 1962.

‘Fliegende Untertassen, eine Deutsche Erfingdung’, by Rudolph Lusar, Das Neue Zeitalter Nr.9, 1958.

NASM microfilms R 2750 F 268 and R 3216 F 75.

‘Messerschmitt Me 328 Bordjäger’, Wingmasters Nº2.

‘Flugscheiben über Peenemunde?’ by Leonhard Eckardt & Heiner Gehring, AMUN-Verlag, 2001.

‘Die deutschen Flugscheiben-Konstrukteure, by Andreas Epp, Sternentorverlag, DVD, May 1999.

‘Die Realität der Flugscheiben’, by Andreas Epp, Michaels Verlag, January 2002.

‘Geheimprojekte der Luftwaffe-Band III’, by Dieter Herwig & Heinz Rode, Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart 2002.

‘Die Luftwaffe Projekte der Deutschen Luftrüstung -Band 1‘, by Ingolf Meyer, Kissing 2004.

‘German Explosive Ordnance TM9-1985-2’, Departments of the Army and the Air Force, March 1953.

‘Aircraft Vibration and Flutter Research in Germany’, US Naval Technical Mission in Europe. BIOS Miscelaneous Report 61. 1945.

‘Die Deutsche Luftrüstung 1933-1945 -Band 1 to 4’, by Heinz J. Nowarra, Bernard & Graefe Verlag 1993.

‘German Jet Genesis ‘, by David Masters, Jane´s 1982.

‘Jet Planes of the Third Reich, the Secret projects Volume One’, by Manfred Griehl, Monogram Aviation Publications 1998.

‘Jet Planes of the Third Reich, the Secret projects Volume Two’, by Manfred Griehl, Monogram Aviation Publications 2004.

‘German Jet Engine and Gas Turbine Development 1930-1945’, by Antony L. Kay, Airlife 2002.

‘Paper Planes of the Third Reich’, Toros Publications 1988.

‘German Aircraft New and Projected Type, A.I.2 (G) Report Nº 2383’ by H.F. King, January 1946.

‘Dragonfly, The Luftwaffe Experimental Triebflügeljäger project’, by David Myhra, Schiffer 2003.

‘Luftwaffe Secret Jets of the Third Reich, by Dan Sharp’, Mortons Media Group Ltd. 2015.

‘Secret Messerschmitt Projects by Willy Radinger & Walter Schick’, Schiffer 1996.

Luftfhart International Nº 9, 10 and 17.

‘Flugzeugfahrwerke ‘, by Günter Sengfelder, Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart 1979.

‘Die Deutschen Raketenflugzeuge 1935-1945’, by Joachim Dressel & Manfred Griehl, Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart 1989.

Die Deutsche Illustrierte, 1953.

Welt am Sonntag, 26 April 1953.

Flieger Welt Deutscher Aero-Digest, Heft 1/1951.

Flugzeug 1/2000.

Flugzeug 2/94.

‘German Helicopters’ by Heinz J. Nowarra, Schiffer, 1980.

‘Helicopters of the Third Reich’, by Steve Coates, Classics Publications Nº 10, 2003.

‘Rotorcraft of the Third Reich’ by Ryszard Witkowski, MMP Books, 2007.

‘Doblhoff WNF 342’, by Paul Lambermont, Le Fanatique de l’Aviation Nº 120.

‘Corona and Induced Current Effects’, Tri-Valley Project PEA, SFO/992220016/November 1999.

‘The Coanda Story’, by Martin Caidin, Flying Magazine, May 1956.

‘Romanian Inventions and Priorities in Aviation’, by Constantin C. Gheorghiu, Ed., Albatros, 1979.

‘The hunt for zero point’, by Nick Cook, Century, 2001.

‘Le dossier des soucoupes volantes’ by Jacques Lob, Dargaud Ed, 1972.

‘Gas Turbine Development-BMW, Junkers, Daimler Benz’, by P. Lloyd, CIOS Report. File Nº XXIV (6). C. 1945.

‘Gas Turbine Development by BMW’, by P.R. Price. CIOS Report. File Nº XXIV (30). C. 1945.

‘German Submarine Rotary Wing Kite’, by B. Kelley and H.J. Mulvey. CIOS Report. File Nº XXVIII (21). C. 1945.

‘Ceskoslovenska Letadla 1918-1945’, by Václav Nemecek, Nase Vojsko Praha, 1983.

‘Les étranges creations d’Otto Kauba’, by Otakar Saffek, le Fanatique de l’Aviation Nº 272.

‘Skoda-Kauba Flugzeugbau’, by Walter Schroeder, Öfh nachrichten, Sonderheft Nr.23, 1998.

‘German Gas Turbine Development During the Period 1939-1945’, by J.W. Adderley, British Intelligence Objectives Sub-Committee Report Nº. 12, 1949.

‘Centrifugal Compressors’, by L.J. Cheshire, George Newnes Ltd, 1955.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/helicopters/q0141.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_YH-32_Hornet

https://www.quora.com/Could-a-helicopter-utilize-a-jet-engine

https://www.saturdaynightuforia.com/html/articles/articlehtml/taleofthenazisaucer.html



http://www.ufor.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Real-Flying-Saucers.pdf

Russian Flying Saucers Bibliography

​

‘Diskoplan’, by Bill Gunston, Encyclopaedia of Russian Aircraft, Osprey Publishing, 2000.

‘Russia’s Diskoplan II’, Flight International, 28 March 1963.

‘Sukhanov’, Jane’s All the World’s Aircraft, 1959 edition.

‘Flying Saucer Technology’ by Bill Rose, Midland, 2011.

‘Secret Projects- Flying Saucer Aircraft’, by Bill Rose & Tony Buttler, Midland, 2006.

‘Les Ailes Volantes’ by Alain Pelletier, E-T-A-I, 1999.

Sailplane & Gliding Magazine Vol 16 No 1.

Air Pictorial 12/1957.

http://ufxufo.org/soviet/sukhanov.htm.

http://www.monino.ru/.

https://www.pinterest.es/pin/348325352408363021/.

https://www.quora.com/Does-a-circul...lly-work-What-other-odd-wing-shapes-are-there.

https://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/dbj2mcl/planeurs-machines/planeur-fiche_0int.php?code=1758.

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/diskoplan2.html.

http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/read/tmDiskoplan.php.

https://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/circular-wing.22842/page-3.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/flying-flapjacks.6203/page-3

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/discoplan-glider-moscow

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/mikhail-sukhanov-projects.2003/

http://fighters.forumactif.com/t68798-sack-as-6-special-hobby-1-72?highlight=sack



American Flying Saucers Bibliography​

‘Balloons at war- Gasbags, Flying Bombs & Cold War secrets’, by John Christopher, Tempus Publishing, 2004.

‘Spying without spies: Origin of America’s Secret Nuclear Intelligence Surveillance System’, by Charles A. Ziegler and David Jacobson, Praeger, 1995.

‘Spyflights and Overflights- US Strategic Aerial Reconnaissance –Volume 1’, by Robert S. Hopkins, Hikoki Publications, 2016.

‘Flying Saucer Technology’ by Bill Rose, Midland, 2011.

‘Secret Projects- Flying Saucer Aircraft’, by Bill Rose & Tony Buttler, Midland, 2006.

‘Les Ailes Volantes’ by Alain Pelletier, E-T-A-I, 1999.

‘The Worldwide UFO Cover-up’, by William Morrow, Quill Books, 1988.

‘Flying Saucers Avro’s Secrets’, by Bill Rose, Air Pictorial, May 2001.

‘Watch the Skies!’ by Curtiss Peebles, Berkeley Books, 1994.

‘The UFO Phenomenon, Fact, Fantasy and Disinformation’, by John Michael Greer, Llewellyn Publications, 2009.

‘The Flying Flapjack’, by Gilbert Faust, Popular Mechanics, May 1947.

‘The Flying Pancakes’, by Art Schoeni, Aeroplane Montly, December 1975.

‘Clipped Wings- The history of Aborted Aircraft Projects’, by David R. Townend, Aerofile Publications, 2007.

‘Jet Powered Vought F5U-2 Flying Pancake’, by Bill Rose, UFO magazine, Vol.14, Nº5, 1999.

‘Langley Full-Scale Tunnel Investigation of a 1/3 Scale Model of the Chance Vought XF5U-1 airplane’, NACA Research Memorandum Nº L6119, October 3, 1946.

‘Zimmerman Flying Flapjacks’, by Barnaby Wainfan, Flight Journal, April 2005.

‘Chance Vought V-173 and XF5U-1 Flying Pancakes’, by Steve Ginter, Naval Fighters Number Twenty-One, 1992.

‘When a Pancake’, by Stan Solomon, Aviation History, September 1997.

C.H. Zimmerman Patent Nº 2,431,293, November 18, 1947.

‘The Untossed Pancake’, Air Enthusiast/June 1973.

‘Area 51’, by Annie Jacobsen, Little Brown and Company, 2011.

‘The Story of the ill-fated XF5U-1’, Air Enthusiast, June 1973.

‘Clipped Wings, the history of aborted aircraft prototypes’ by David R. Townend, Aerofile Publications, Markman, 2007.

‘Zimmerman X.50’, Ali Nuove 5/1952.

OKB MiG, Aero Revue 59/97.

Development of Airborne Armament 1919-1961, AFSC Historical Publication Series 61-52-1 (61WW-12808), October 1961.

‘Pye Wacket-Lenticular Rocket Feasibility Study’, Air Proving Ground Center-Eglin AFB, APGC-TR-60-25, ASTIA Document, May 1960.

‘Valkyrie: North American’s Mach 3 Superbomber’ by Dennis R. Jenkins, Specialty Press, 2004.

NACA report ‘Full-scale wind tunnel tests of the Vought-Sikorsky V-173, April 28, 1942’.

‘Environmental Control Systems Selection for manned Space Vehicles’, by R.J. Oberto, Los Angeles Division, North American Aviation Inc. Technical Report Nº. ASD-TR-61-240, PT. II. Vol II, October 1962.

‘Primary Vehicle Global Surveillance System’, by R.J. Oberto, Los Angeles Division, North American Aviation Inc. Technical Report Nº. ASD-TR-61-20, Vol III, May 1961.

Static Longitudinal Stability and Control Characteristics at a Mach Number of 1.99 of a Lenticular-shaped Reentry Vehicle, C.M. Jackson Jr, R.V. Harris, Jr. NASA Technical Note D-514, NASA Langley Research Center, Oct 1960.

Subsonic Longitudinal Aerodynamic Characteristics of Disks with Elliptic Cross Sections and Thickness-Diameter Ratios from 0.225 to 0.425., F.A. Demele and J.J. Brownson, NASA Ames Research Center, NASA TN-D-778, Apr 1961.

Landing Characteristics of a Lenticular-Shaped Reentry Vehicle: Ulysse J. Blanchard, NASA Langley Research Center, NASA TN-D-940, Sep. 1961.

Experimental Investigation of a Disk-Shaped Reentry Configuration at Transonic and Low Supersonic Speeds: Lazzeroni, F. A. NASA Ames Research Center, NASA TM-X-652, May 1962.

Investigation of the Low-Subsonic aerodynamic Characteristics of a Model of a Modified Lenticular Reentry Configuration: G. M. Ware, NASA Langley Research Center, NASA TM-X-756, Dec 1962.

Large-Scale Wind-Tunnel Tests of a Circular Plan-Form Aircraft with a Peripheral Jet for Lift, Thrust, and Control. R.K. Greif, William H. Tolhurst, Jr., NASA Ames Research Center, NASA TN-D-1432, Feb 1963.

Supersonic Aerodynamic Characteristics of Some Reentry concepts For Angles of Attack up to 90 deg: M. L. Spearman, NASA Langley Research Center, AIAA Paper 85-1795, Jan 1985.

Supersonic Aerodynamic Characteristics of Some Reentry concepts For Angles of Attack up to 90 deg: M. L. Spearman, NASA Langley Research Center, NASA-TM-87645, Nov 1985.

The Discus Body and its application to V/STOL Aircraft and Space Vehicles, by Martin Gerloff, Aero/Space Engineering, Jan 1960.

Disk Shaped Vehicles Are Studied for Potential As Orbital Aircraft, AVIATION WEEK, 15 Jun 1960.

Landable Disk Re-Entry Vehicles: P A Giragosian & W D Hoffman, Fairchild Stratos Corp, Hagerstown, Md, in Dynamics of Manned Lifting Planetary Entry, Symposium, 3rd, Proceedings, (Philadelphia, Oct 1962), JOHN WILEY & SONS, New York, NY.

Apollo Final report: Configuration, NASA Space Task Group, Contract NAS 5-303, Exhibit A Item 1.2, June 1961.

“Manned Anti-Satellite System”, E.E. Honeywell; Transactions of the Eighth Symposium on Ballistic Missile and Space Technology (Vol. II); Defense Documentation Center, Alexandria, Virginia; 1963.

‘America’s Nuclear Flying Saucer’ by Jim Wilson, Popular Mechanics, November 2000.


PYE WACKET Feasibility Test Vehicle Study (Summary) Volume 1
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=AD0325216

PYE WACKET. Feasibility Test Vehicle Study (Configuration and Autopilot/Control)
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=AD0325217

PYE WACKET Feasibility Test Vehicle Study (Aerodynamics) Volume 2
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=AD0325237





Canadian Flying Saucers Bibliography

​

‘Canada’s Flying Saucer’, by Bill Zuk, The Boston Mills Press, 2001.

‘Flying Saucers Avro’s Secrets’, by Bill Rose, Air Pictorial, May 2001.

Air Intelligence Digest, December 1954, Volume 7, Nº12.

‘Man-made Flying Saucers’, Royal Air Force Flying Review Nº1, October 1955.

‘The Project Silver Bug Report: ATIC TR-AC-47, 15 February 1955’, by Roger D. Cook, SD Publications, June 2000.

‘The (almost) Flying Saucer’, by Ernest Ball, Air Enthusiast International/June 1974.

‘The Pentagon Flying Saucer Problem’, by Graham Chandler, Air & Space, April/May 2003.

‘Is this real Flying Saucer?’ by Thomas Turner, Look Magazine, Volume 19, June 1955.

‘Flying Saucers are real’, People Today Magazine, September 1952.

‘The Secret Saucer’, Product Engineering, December 15, 1958.

J.C.M. Frost Patents - 3,024,966 (March 13, 1962), 3,020,002 (February 6, 1962), 3,022,963 (February 27, 1962), 3,018,068 (January 23, 1962), 3,062,482 (November 6, 1962), 3,124,323 (March 10, 1964), 3,051,414 (August 28, 1962).

‘Project Omega’ New York Times, September 17, 1953.

Toronto Daily Star, Mach 13, 1953.

Toronto Daily Star, April 21, 1953.

‘Avro Canada’s Omega’, Aeroplane, January 5, 1954.

London Times, April 22, 1953.

London Times, April 23, 1953.

Ali Nº 12, May 17, 1953.

Ali Nuove, June 1953.

‘Canada Builds Flying Saucers’, Fate magazine, October 1953.

‘How the Flying Saucer Works’, by Willy Ley, Mechanix Illustrated, March 1956.

‘Cold War Tech War’ by Randall Whitcomb, Apogee Books, 2008.

‘The UFO Files: The Canadian Connection Exposed’ by Palmiro Campagna, Toronto: Stoddart Publishing, 1998.

‘Saucer Attack (pop culture in the golden age of flying saucers)’, Eric & Leif Nesheim, General Publishing Knc. CA.1997.
 
Antonio said:
Abyssadventurer said:
Hi everybody. I'm new in this forum. Last post here is quite old. Nobody interested in talk about Flying Saucer or better disc shaped aircraft real technology?
Click to expand...

This thread was opened to report on books about the subject, because this is the books subform.

You'll find the most updated posts on the topic locating the appropriate threads from the forums search engine. Note that you also have a little menu with related threads in this page, scrolling to the top right corner.
Click to expand...
Yes ok I was intending also to find books, magazine and articles with a scientific approach about the circular spinning wing aircrafts and the possibility they will fly really! Not about fiction, UFO etc.!
 
Which book best describes internal air flow of flying saucers?
I am still trying to understand how they generate lift ????

I have read a bit about how the Avro-Car generated lift around its outer edges, but never achieved stable hover.
 
riggerrob said:
Which book best describes internal air flow of flying saucers?
I am still trying to understand how they generate lift ????

I have read a bit about how the Avro-Car generated lift around its outer edges, but never achieved stable hover.
Click to expand...
-- Late in 1951, John Frost the project engineer of the D.H. 108, made a proposal for a proof-of-concept saucer-like flying vehicle. Early in 1952 the A.V. Roe Special Projects Group was formed to investigate the Frost ideas.

On February 7, 1952, the Group distributed an internal document titled ‘Description and Thoughts on the Turbo Disc’ (a simple gas turbine halfway between a ram-jet engine and centrifugal engine), Frost also submitted the design to the engineering department of McGill University.

The radial-flow turbojet designed by the Frost team had twenty feet of diameter, 42,000 lbf minimum thrust at low pressure and an outstanding power to weight ratio of 1.73 to 1.

The horizontal Pelton-wheel turbine had a large multi-stage centrifugal compressor with the rotor blades mounted on the inner disc ring and the stator blades in the outer disc ring. The separate combustion system consisted of several combustion chambers with individual burners and nozzle guide vanes distributed in a radial pattern between the ribs of the vehicle.

This work led to the first design named Omega project, with elliptical planform, 36 ft wingspan, 40 ft overall length and 1 to 7 aspect ratio. It was proposed to control the vehicle by altering the direction of thrust forces.

The vehicle had twenty air-intake slots mounted in the nose, the new pancake engine was designed as an integral part of the airframe and the jet thrust exited from around the entire rim of the engine.

About three-fifths of the jet exhaust flow through a multiple jet-pipe assembly that direct the flow of gases in a rearward direction from the sides of the airframe for propulsion and the remainder is ejected from the trailing edge through ten deflector vanes comprising elevons and trimmers providing control in yaw, roll and pitch.

The idea of a supersonic aircraft with short take-off and landing (STOL) capabilities was proposed by the Special Project Group in April 1952, in the document titled ‘Proposal for a Gas Turbine Propelled Aircraft of Circular Planform’.

A second design (July 1, 1952), named Project-Y, was a modified variant of the Omega concept with ‘D’ shaped planform and deflector vanes replaced by two extra flaps.

The air for the engine is drawn in through two forward-facing intakes on the upper and lower surfaces of the fuselage.

The unusual landing gear consisted in a 13.7 ft long telescopic strut ended in a double tyre boggie, a tail wheel and two bumpers mounted in the tips of the fish tail. In the ground the airplane sat at a 47-degree angle on its tail, this arrangement led to the aircraft being called Praying Mantis.

Their scalloped nozzles on the airframe sides directed the jet thrust rearwards for near vertical 75-degree STOL operation, after a short run.

Two glass panels under the cockpit floor allowed the pilot to see the ground during landing.

Two wind tunnel models, including one afterburning version, were tested between December 1952 and January 1953 at the Hawker Siddeley-Woolford facilities.

On July 1952, the Special Projects Group issued the report: ‘Project Y: An All-wing Supersonic Airplane’. This third design (August 21, 1952) named Project Y-1, was a tail-sitter supersonic interceptor with vertical take-off and landing capabilities.

The mock-up had been completed late in 1952 and revealed in April 1953.

For VTOL operation the landing gear strut was replaced by two landing legs that extended out of the dorsal and ventral spines. The exhaust flaps were replaced by large slots next to the tail and the side jet exhaust were covered by aerodynamic fairings to save drag.

Yaw control was obtained by means of additional jet-thrusters mounted to both sides of a new pointed nose.

These modifications produced a shape like a spade on a playing card and the Project Y-1 being called Ace of Spades.

The new project should compete against the el British Avro 724 VTOL all-weather interceptor and the lack of an airborne interception radar of the Y-1 was considered unacceptable. At that time, the AI radar required a second crew member, and the mock-up was modified with a second ventral cockpit for one radar operator lying in prone position.

The Ace of Spades was inherently unstable due the control problems added by the gyroscopic effect caused by the considerable mass-inertia of their multi-chamber radial flow engine. The problem required an electronic stabilization control system, something not available with the current technology, and the project was cancelled in March 1954 in favor of a VTOL gyroplane with flat-riser configuration named Project Y-2.

In March 1953 Frost met with the wartime German engineer George Klein, who had taken part in the development of the Flügelrad Projekt. The reunion took place at a Canadian Government Facility in West Germany.

On August 23, 1953 Frost patented the Air Cushion Effect and in June 1954 published the report “Project Y-2: Flat Vertical Take-off Gyroplane” a proof-of-concept vehicle named Project P.724.

The Y-2 was a true flying saucer design powered by one radial flow gas turbine which utilizes compressor air bleed as its only means of lubrication.

Their VTOL capability was achieved by ducting engine exhaust to the periphery of the disc and deflecting the air flow downwards by means of the Coanda Effect. For transition to forward flight, the air flow would be gradually redistributed backwards by means of trim flaps.

The proposed Avro Y-2 Project P.724 (Patent April 18, 1955) had 44 ft. (13.4 m) of diameter and 5.9 ft. (1.8 m) of height. A new proposed version (Patent May 9, 1955) with 49 ft. (14.97 m) of diameter and 6.9 ft. (2 m) height, was powered by eight radially mounted Armstrong-Siddeley ASM Viper 5 axial-flow turbojets with 1,900 lbs. thrust each.

During the Cold War, the jet airplanes needed extremely long runways and there were few in existence that could be used by the Russian A-bombs depriving the USAF from their high-performance defense fighters.

Brig. Gen. Benjamin Kelsey, deputy director of research and development of the Air Force, called for a VTOL supersonic interceptor that would have been based in underground facilities.

But all the VTOL tail-sitters of that time: Convair XFY-1 Pogo, Lockheed XFV-1 Salmon, Ryan X-13 Vertijet, Northrop N-63 and the Martin Model 262 and SNECMA Coléoptère experienced serious stability problems during transition from horizontal flight to the vertical landing.

The tail-sitter formula was not successful as a practical vertical flight control system could not be found.

On August 13, 1954, the U.S. Air Research and Development Command issued Technical Requirement TR Nº 3 for a project development plan for the Avro Project P.724, under the codename Ladybird.

On September 16, 1954 U.S. Defense experts, led by USAF General D.L. Putt, visited the Avro Canada plant, and were briefed on Project Y-2, a flat-riser fighter design being funded by Avro, with some assistance from Canadian Defense Research Board.

On December 29, 1954, the USAF took over funding for the Project Y-2, on February 15, 1955 the technical document Project Nº 9961was prepared by the Air Technical Intelligence Centre (ATIC) at Wright-Patterson AFB. This report presents factual technical data on a scaled-down variant of the Project Ladybird with 29.2 ft of diameter, 70,000 ft ceiling and Mach 3.48 capabilities.

On January 17, 1955, the USAF re-designated it as Project Silver Bug, a supersonic interceptor powered by one improved Orenda radial flow gas turbine, with both upper and forward-facing air intakes for VTOL and forward flight configurations.

The Silver Bug proposal incorporates several advance improvements brought about by the utilization of several radical ideas. The aircraft was controlled by regulating shutters which vary the amount of thrust through annular nozzles for pitch and roll control and through the peripheral backward facing nozzles for yaw control.



On April 2, 1955, the USAF signed Avro contract Nº AF33 (600) 30161 for the Project 1794. The contract specified analytical investigations to determine the performance capabilities of a flat VTOL all-wing aircraft of circular planform employing jet control. The areas for analysis were defined as:

Air Cushion Effect

Stability of multi-engine configuration

Air intake and gas exhaust system test

Aircraft performance, stability, and control

Radial-flow engine feasibility



Aerodynamic tests with 1/6 and 1/40 scale models were conducted at Wright-Patterson and M.I.T. wind tunnel facilities. Tests of speed, transition control, pitch control, jet thrust, intake flow, ground position and angle of attack were completed on June 14, 1956.

An attempt was made to theoretically calculate the Ground Effect, but theory does not explain observations sufficiently accurately and no tests of radial-flow engine feasibility have been carried at the end of the program.

A low-speed research vehicle was proposed to investigate stability, control systems and Air Cushion Effect, before development of a supersonic operational aircraft.

This planned prototype had 21 ft 6 in (6.55 m) of diameter, 4 ft (1.2 m) height and was powered by eight radially mounted Armstrong-Siddeley Viper A.S.V. 8 turbojets, with 4,188 lbs. thrust each, radial diffuser ducts and Coanda peripheral ring.

The final development aircraft had a turbo-ramjet propulsion system with one Lundström compressor/turbine powered by three Viper A.S.V. 5 turbojets, a single-stage axial impeller and 144 flame tubes. The planned aircraft had 35.3 ft (10.75 m) of diameter, 5.35 ft (1.63 m) height, Mach 3.0 top speed and 94,000 ft ceiling.

On November 4, 1955, Avro Canada proposed the PV.704 project to develop the radial-flow engine to eliminate any delays in the development of the Project 1794 propulsion system.

In the PV.704 power plant the incoming air sucked through the upper and lower intakes was fed into the hollow cylinder of Lundström turbo-rotor, pressurized by means of the four-stage upper and lower impellers and directed towards the peripheral air intakes of six radially mounted Viper A.S.V. 8 turbojets. Partial flow of compressed air proceeds radially to 24 peripheral combustion chambers and finally expelled through 96 flight control shutters.

The turbojets were used as gas generators, their exhaust gases proceeded radially inwards, ducted to the central turbine ring by means of six exhaust diffusers and were finally expelled through a central exhaust on the under surface of the aircraft.

In October 1956, the design was tested in a six Viper test rig, early in 1957 the Lundström turbine/compressor combination (with 8.5 ft of diameter and 10,450 pounds max weight) was sent to Burbank California.

On September 26, 1957, the U.S. Army approached Avro with a request for an Air Cushion Effect ‘flying jeep’, by March 1958 the Special Projects Group designed a modest three turbojets subsonic circular aircraft called Avrocar.

Thrust of the turbojets were used for turning the Turborotor, a 124 blades fan with 5 ft of diameter, to provide vertical lift. Partial thrust was ducted to periphery flaps and exhaust nozzles which provided stability and control.

In May 1958, USAF signed contract AF33 (600) 37496 for the construction of the mock-up and one proof-of-concept demonstrator. A second prototype was commissioned in March 1959.

On October 7, 1959 tethered flight tests of the noisy prototype VZ-9AV (59-4975) indicated that one-third of the thrust was being lost to exhaust inefficiencies. This meant the aircraft would be incapable of hovering out the Ground Effect.

With enough power even a brick can fly, but the Avrocar never had the power to do so. Thrust losses required a complete re-design, a costly decision that crippled the entire program.

During the first free flight conducted in May 1959 the Avrocar never exceeded one meter off the ground, but the lack of control flight was its undoing.

It was discovered that the prototype was inherently unstable in forward flight, with rapid and unpredictable swings in pitch and roll axes, a control problem called ‘hub capping’.

The development contract was completed in December 1961 and the project was discontinued.

On March 27, 1957, the USAF extended the Project 1794 through October 1958 under the codename Weapons System WS-606A. The new research program was based on the GETOL (Ground Effect Take-off and Landing) concept that promised a fuel consumption rate 35 per cent lower than the VTOL system.

In January 1959 Avro issued Technical Report Nº 276 with preliminary performance calculations of a single seat Mach 3 tactical bomber, with GETOL and VTOL capabilities, known as ‘Configuration A’.

Propulsion was provided by one radial-flow turbine, twelve combustion chambers and six Marquardt ramjet engines. Exhaust from the turbine was ducted radially outwards to the combustion chambers and to the propulsive nozzle system mounted around the wing periphery. Vertical take-off was achieved by diverting the thrust downward and forward flight acceleration was achieved by diverting the flow aft. This was sufficient to reach the ignition velocity of the ramjets, for supersonic cruise.

The nozzle system was also used for control purposes but the manufacturing difficulties of obtaining accurate flow passages were severe.

One reconnaissance version was considered as successor of the Lockheed U-2 spy plane. It was expected that the jet control was more efficient at high-altitude than the conventional control surfaces, but the Lockheed Blackbird was finally selected.

During test-rig trials conducted in October 1956 the turbine blew so hot (1,750º K) it melted the steel structure and its violent shaking would pop the rivets, causing three fires, hazardous oil leaks and nearly a catastrophic incident occurred with a Viper turbojet running out of control.

Noise and vibrations made the prospects of a manned vehicle frightening. The Lundström compressor produced a dangerous sonic boom at the point that observers were afraid of the machine.

During the flight tests of the XF-84F performed in July 1955 the USAF have had bad experiences with the sonic waves produced by the supersonic propeller of the prototype. The ground crews were incapacitated getting nauseous and suffering headaches.

The wind tunnel tests suggested that the GETOL configuration had severe stability problems and the craft was in constant danger of flipping over during take-off. The circular wing was displaying none of the theoretical advantages and a lot of practical shortcomings.

The WS-606A configurations were simply too advanced and the technical challenges too great: a dead-end project with insurmountable problems of overheating, ball-bearing over-speed, and gyroscopic effect. By March 1958, USAF recommended that all work on the GETOL concept and their radial-flow turbine should be halted. There is no evidence that anyone has engineered an example of radial-flow turbo-disc engine.
 

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riggerrob said:
Which book best describes internal air flow of flying saucers?
I am still trying to understand how they generate lift ????

I have read a bit about how the Avro-Car generated lift around its outer edges, but never achieved stable hover.
Click to expand...
it is basically a coanda effect on the upper part of the aircraft in order to make low pressure while on the lower part it causes more pressure This is the side of a Russian I think where he explains some forms of using the koanda effect when cold and hot air combine . The idea is not to use heat as the main source of energy but cold or implosion. or you intentionally make a big cold in the in the draft and when combined with hot air you make a tornado in the front of the craft in order to achieve a vacuum to suck the aircraft. Victor got this idea from the trout fish in the water
In the picture is his underwater vehicles. the idea is to to make vacuum in the front of the water while turning the water through its turbine into cold steam or cavitation and distributing it over the surface of the submarine's body.


sy.jpg



LINK
 
kocovgoce said:
riggerrob said:
Which book best describes internal air flow of flying saucers?
I am still trying to understand how they generate lift ????

I have read a bit about how the Avro-Car generated lift around its outer edges, but never achieved stable hover.
Click to expand...
it is basically a coanda effect on the upper part of the aircraft in order to make low pressure while on the lower part it causes more pressure This is the side of a Russian I think where he explains some forms of using the koanda effect when cold and hot air combine . The idea is not to use heat as the main source of energy but cold or implosion. or you intentionally make a big cold in the in the draft and when combined with hot air you make a tornado in the front of the craft in order to achieve a vacuum to suck the aircraft. Victor got this idea from the trout fish in the water
In the picture is his underwater vehicles. the idea is to to make vacuum in the front of the water while turning the water through its turbine into cold steam or cavitation and distributing it over the surface of the submarine's body.


View attachment 663422



LINK
Click to expand...

Interesting point about using hot and cold air to improve lift around flying saucers.

That concept sounds vaguely like some Soviet high-speed torpedoes that use expelled air to create a low-pressure area ahead of the torpedo and it sort of 'falls' into the low-pressure void.
 
riggerrob said:
kocovgoce said:
riggerrob said:
Which book best describes internal air flow of flying saucers?
I am still trying to understand how they generate lift ????

I have read a bit about how the Avro-Car generated lift around its outer edges, but never achieved stable hover.
Click to expand...
it is basically a coanda effect on the upper part of the aircraft in order to make low pressure while on the lower part it causes more pressure This is the side of a Russian I think where he explains some forms of using the koanda effect when cold and hot air combine . The idea is not to use heat as the main source of energy but cold or implosion. or you intentionally make a big cold in the in the draft and when combined with hot air you make a tornado in the front of the craft in order to achieve a vacuum to suck the aircraft. Victor got this idea from the trout fish in the water
In the picture is his underwater vehicles. the idea is to to make vacuum in the front of the water while turning the water through its turbine into cold steam or cavitation and distributing it over the surface of the submarine's body.


View attachment 663422



LINK
Click to expand...

Interesting point about using hot and cold air to improve lift around flying saucers.

That concept sounds vaguely like some Soviet high-speed torpedoes that use expelled air to create a low-pressure area ahead of the torpedo and it sort of 'falls' into the low-pressure void.
Click to expand...
Yes the torpedo skval is based on cavitation based on Schauberg that is, you apply reduced pressure to the front and so you have less resistance and better performance bcde40fa5181ae99650dfdc5748b8b93.jpg
 

René Couzinet​

French pioneer in the development of flying saucers or low-resistance winged aircraft
 

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Here Couzinet S2 flying saucer patent specification nº 807.169 london
 

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the jet engine on Couzinet flying saucer was to rotate 360 degrees which allowed the spacecraft to turn left or right at high speed at right angles.
 
That Chinese whatsit sorta reminds me of a US ground-support VTOL proposal that resembled a stubby French Leduc-10 with annular wing, but nose cockpit could tilt 90º...

Ha !! Hiller VXT-8 (Coleopter futuristic ring-wing design) 1955

If I remember SL's write-up in APR even half-correctly, it was intended as a gun-ship...
--
FWIW, google just found... https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6564716
Sadly, just tip shown above pay-wall...
Optimal tracking control system design for a ring-wing type UAV
This paper proposes an optimal tracking control law for a ring-wing type unmanned aerial vehicle (RWUAV) under full flight envelope including hover, transition and cruise modes. A system matrix is augmented with a tracking error term, and then state feedback gain is calculated by using a single Riccati equation. In order to reduce error, an integral term is augmented in the state vector. The performance of proposed controller is verified through three-dimensional waypoint simulation.
 

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Last edited:
Justo Miranda said:
Here Couzinet S2 flying saucer patent specification nº 807.169 london
Click to expand...
That almost looks like Bono's-fanciful?-HLLV concept if it got the fleshing out it deserved: large fins...wide..maybe needs fattening. Did he and Bono ever talk?
 
Um, perhaps had rectangular intake, with variable geometry to slant L/R side of opening towards air-flow ? Perhaps 'side-louvered', with shutters ??
 

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