"Field battleship" by A. A. Porokhovshchikov

[Creepezel]

So I've been scrolling trough Pinterest and found this, thing. Google image search guided me to a name "Field Battleship", designed by some guy named Porokhovshchikov in 1915.

And from what I've found trough google search, it had 2 variants. First with 2 turrets, and second with "boxes" instead, that were meant for infantry transport.

Not that I doubt how creative people were in World War I, but I have a hard time believing it. Does someone have some articles other than on topwar.ru and russian wikipedia confirming that this design did existed at some point, and it indeed had 2 variants ?

 

[riggerrob]

That would roll great on the flat, open spaces of the Northern European Plains, but struggle when it got into the mountains of Central Germany or the Alps of Austria.

 

[_Del_]

where do you find that tank!

Navrotskiy tank and Ostapenko sphere - from S. Fedoseev book, "WW1 tanks" (on Russian language).
+ other variant (or, irregular blueprint) of Navrotskiy tank:
View attachment 640166
"Land armour vessel", engineer Porokhovshikov, 1915-16:
View attachment 640164
View attachment 640165
In fact, these are ten cylindrical tanks, similar to the "Protivodot", connected by one large frame. Each "wheel" is a 160-200 hp engine, one mortar ("bombomyot" - "bomb launcher" or "bomb thrower"), two machine guns. Also, two 4-6" cannons and two 3" cannons in two turrets (in other variant - two armoured boxes for 500 soldiers). Speed - to 21 kmph, armour - 4 inches, 72 crews. Later Porokhovshchikov offered a flexible frame version.
And, for Imperial Russia, this is a very healthy project. This is damn better than a giant battle egg with a diameter of more than 300 meters, or a giant land battleship with a crew of 5,000, or walking tanks...

Knew I had seen this before.

 

[Orionblamblam]

That would roll great on the flat, open spaces of the Northern European Plains, but struggle when it got into the mountains of Central Germany or the Alps of Austria.

Or a ditch. Never mind a river.

 

[MadRat]

Kind of looks like an ironclad on barrels. Might be practical in something like a desert.

Its literally a land train.

 

[Kat Tsun]

Connect each set of four to six wheels with articulated joints, like the skeleton tank, and you'd have a mean offroading wagon.

 

[muttly]

A solution looking for a problem.

 

[Dilandu]

To be exact, it was called "zemnoy bronenosets" (rus. "land ironclad")

And from what I've found trough google search, it had 2 variants. First with 2 turrets, and second with "boxes" instead, that were meant for infantry transport.

Yep, according to available sources, there were two desings: "field ironclad" and "fortress ironclad". First have two turrets with 6-inch and 3-inch gun in common mount, and machineguns and bomb throwers in each roller. Second have "infantry deck" over the hull, for transporting the infantry across the battlefield.

 

[Creepezel]

So apparently, it did existed on paper at one point... And I can't see it in any other role than a wall of fire blocking passage to some city laying on plain type of terrain.

These cyllinders, were meant to be equipped with 2 machine guns, and a single mortar/bomb thrower in the middle. And there was a total of 20 cyllinders, 10 on each side. That's quite a bit of firepower for these times but...

Unfortunately the 2 gunners would have ben deafened by the loud engine working behind them just few inches away... Auch... Not to mention, originaly, this 35 meters long (114 feet 8 inches) thing, was stiff, couldn't bend. Later on supposedly, it got a design change to make it a bit more flexible.

 

[Silencer1]

Connect each set of four to six wheels with articulated joints, like the skeleton tank, and you'd have a mean offroading wagon.

And you'll need to system to control relative movement of these joints, isn't it?
Like Gama Goat or LeTurneax Overland Train.

On the sidenote: Russian engineers and military were unable to made workable "Tsar-tank" vehicle - at least it has been constructed and tested. Production of Porokhovshikov's "landship" has been far above the real abilities of then time Russian.

 

[Nik]

At least LeTurneax team were used to building big, off-road stuff, so could tick the 'practicable' box...

 

[dan_inbox]

At least LeTurneax team were used to building big, off-road stuff, so could tick the 'practicable' box...

I suppose you mean LeTourneau ?
Not sure "practicable" is the best description, but yes it did contribute to deforestation decades ago.

 

[Silencer1]

I suppose you mean LeTourneau ?
Not sure "practicable" is the best description, but yes it did contribute to deforestation decades ago.

Yes, my typo in the company (and it's founder) names.
I mean this machine

 

[Dilandu]

So apparently, it did existed on paper at one point... And I can't see it in any other role than a wall of fire blocking passage to some city laying on plain type of terrain.

Seems like that. I should note, that Porokhovshchikov is the same one who invented "Vezdekhod" (rus. all-terrain vechicle):



The rather odd-looking machine have quite an orgiginal drive system; it have a large rubber track under hull, and two control wheels at sides. The wheels sat a bit lower than the track. The idea was, that on good hard road the machine would move on wheels & the rear track roller, and on soft surface wheels would sank into ground and machine would move on track (the wheels were supposed to work as some kind of "rudders" in the soil - like on boats!). The inventor also intended for it to be able to move on water, so the hull was water-tight.

The machine was build & tested, but demonstrated rather mediocre results (the rudder wheels system was simply unworkable, on soft soil they break very easily, and could not control the movement at all), so the whole project was abandoned in 1916.

It should be noted, that "Vezdekhod" was NOT intended as fighting machine - despite Porokhovshchikov later attempted to claim, that he intended it to be armed & armored. In all documents, it was descirbed only as all-terrain car, presumably for scouting purposes. Porokhovshchikov did not mention neither armor nor weaponry until after first use of British tanks on Somma in 1916 became public knowledge; immediately after, Porokhovshchikov started to claim that he fully intended for "Vezdekhod" to be armed and armored, and thus that he invented tank before British do. To support this - rather doubtful - claim, he presented the concept of "Vezdekhod-2", which was supposed to have same general arrangement but carry the multi-level turret with several independently trained machine guns:



Hovewer, Russian military paid little interest to this concept.

It is clear, that Porokhovshchikov was talented, but not very practical inventor. He suggested quite original concepts, but always missed important details. So, it seems that he asuggested such non-standard idea with "Land Ironclad", and completely missed the details of how it would turn.

 

[Dilandu]

On the sidenote: Russian engineers and military were unable to made workable "Tsar-tank" vehicle - at least it has been constructed and tested.

To be exact, both engineers nor military were quite skeptical about Tsar-tank project from the very beginning. But it have Tsar's own support (there is even a theory, that the whole project was a brainchild of one of Great Knyaz's, and the Lyebedenko merely was the official figure), and there was at least technical interest in building & testing the high-wheel machine to at least test the concept.

 

[Silencer1]

On the sidenote: Russian engineers and military were unable to made workable "Tsar-tank" vehicle - at least it has been constructed and tested.

To be exact, both engineers nor military were quite skeptical about Tsar-tank project from the very beginning. But it have Tsar's own support (there is even a theory, that the whole project was a brainchild of one of Great Knyaz's, and the Lyebedenko merely was the official figure), and there was at least technical interest in building & testing the high-wheel machine to at least test the concept.

Thank you for additional infomation! I was incorrect in my words: Tsar-Tanks has been designed and constructed, but it's whole concept has been impractical. On this sample we could rougly estimates the capabilities of Russian' industry and designers: creation of giant, complex and advanced has been possible. However, it's takes a lot of time, resources and require engines, that not produced in the country. Hypotetctically, if Tsar-Tanks were put in series production, need for powerful engines could be one of the problems - just like in aircraft industry.

At least, Porokhovshikov built his smaller tracked vehicle, and became one of the first Russian tank designers.

 

[Rhinocrates]

The provenance of this design is very uncertain. Rumour has it that variants were tested with suit of smoothbore gun, mortar, rocket launcher, antenna mast, and of course, a corkscrew.

 

[Rhinocrates]

Putting on my serious hat (lined with tinfoil).

Is there a thread on land trains?

There's this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Am0TqahNk&ab_channel=FoundAndExplained


And then there's this, a Soviet proposal for a Martian land train that carried the ascent stages along with it. I don't know anything about the details.

 

[Silencer1]

Is there a thread on land trains?

I previously mentioned (#13) another, good detailed story of "Overland Train" and it's story.
Calum's Youtube channel contains several other stories about unusual all-terrain vehicles

https://www.youtube.com/c/CalumRaasay

 

[airman]

i found the article about Field Tank https://en.topwar.ru/185775-nastojaschij-tank-porohovschikova.html