F-14 and Su-27's nose question

[KJ_Lesnick]

Why do the F-14 and SU-27's noses when in level flight appear to be angled down a bit?

 

[flateric]

because they are 'in level' with horizont while aircraft cruising - they do it, as you may notice, always with some tiny positive AoA

 

[Matej]

Look at the front part of your car, then go inside and take a look forward. You will have the point regarding to visibility. The other thing is that you need to optimally distribute the radar waves in the air and on the ground (remember that the Earth is curved).

 

[F-14D]

Or, it could be that since both aircraft have really large radar antennas, and both are designed to be able to land in tight spaces (carrier for the Tomcat and semi-prepared areas for the Flanker), they need the visibility over the nose while holding angle of attack on the approach... :-\

 

[KJ_Lesnick]

F-14D,

Not so sure about that, as the F-15 has sufficient visibility over the nose for navy purposes and it's nose is big enough to accomodate an AWG-9 radar (assuming it was mounted further back in the nose, closer to where the cockpit is -- me and another member on WHIF had discussed this and concluded this)

KJ Lesnick

 

[F-14D]

F-14D,

Not so sure about that, as the F-15 has sufficient visibility over the nose for navy purposes and it's nose is big enough to accomodate an AWG-9 radar (assuming it was mounted further back in the nose, closer to where the cockpit is -- me and another member on WHIF had discussed this and concluded this)

KJ Lesnick

Re F-15 visibility: Not according to the Navy, without modifying nose and/or elevating pilot's line of sight for constant angle of attack for carrier approach technique

I don't believe the F-15 carried a 36 inch flat plate antenna, and it's the antenna that is really at issue here, since it has to be able to move around. Whether you could fit the entire AWG-9 into an F-15A is not germane, since the F-15, and its nose, was not designed to do so, so why would they build such a nose? As far as moving it back, what happens to all the stuff that's already behind the F-15A's APG-63?

Now they probably could have built a carrier capable F-15, and they probably could have put the AWG-9 in that, but then, the front of the a/c would no longer be the Eagle snout that we know.

 

[KJ_Lesnick]

F-14D

Not according to the Navy, without modifying nose and/or elevating pilot's line of sight for constant angle of attack for carrier approach technique

When the USN say that?

I don't believe the F-15 carried a 36 inch flat plate antenna, and it's the antenna that is really at issue here, since it has to be able to move around. Whether you could fit the entire AWG-9 into an F-15A is not germane, since the F-15, and its nose, was not designed to do so, so why would they build such a nose? As far as moving it back, what happens to all the stuff that's already behind the F-15A's APG-63?

Well, it was kind of a hypothetical -- an aircraft that had the same nose-cone shape as the F-15 but the position of the dish and equipment would be different. Either way, from what me and a guy on WHIF concluded, if the AWG-9 antenna was put far enough back in the nose-cone of the F-15 it would fit and apparently there would be enough space for the pilot behind the radar

Now they probably could have built a carrier capable F-15, and they probably could have put the AWG-9 in that, but then, the front of the a/c would no longer be the Eagle snout that we know.

There was a proposed F-15N, but it wasn't to use an AWG-9; it was to use the APG-64 which was a development of the APG-63 with the ability to operate AIM-54's and probably a longer range. I presume it was about the same size and regardless could fit within the confines of the F-15's nose.


KJ Lesnick

 

[flateric]

from famous Ray Whitford's Design for Air Combat
KJ, this is a book that I gave you as source more than a year ago
I hardly advise to buy the last edition and *read* it

 

[KJ_Lesnick]

When I get a sufficient amount of money, I'll buy the book.

 

[Jacky]

F-14D,

Not so sure about that, as the F-15 has sufficient visibility over the nose for navy purposes and it's nose is big enough to accomodate an AWG-9 radar (assuming it was mounted further back in the nose, closer to where the cockpit is -- me and another member on WHIF had discussed this and concluded this)

KJ Lesnick

Re F-15 visibility: Not according to the Navy, without modifying nose and/or elevating pilot's line of sight for constant angle of attack for carrier approach technique

I don't believe the F-15 carried a 36 inch flat plate antenna, and it's the antenna that is really at issue here, since it has to be able to move around. Whether you could fit the entire AWG-9 into an F-15A is not germane, since the F-15, and its nose, was not designed to do so, so why would they build such a nose? As far as moving it back, what happens to all the stuff that's already behind the F-15A's APG-63?

Now they probably could have built a carrier capable F-15, and they probably could have put the AWG-9 in that, but then, the front of the a/c would no longer be the Eagle snout that we know.

Based on report " F-15 AN/APG-63 RADAR CASE STUDY REPORT (IDA/OSD R&M STUDY)". The anntena diameter of AN/APG-63 is 36 inches.

 

[danwild6]

From what I understand both the F-14 and Su-27 have a radome of 40 inches I think maybe 42 inches in the case of the SU-27

 

[Ronny]

From what I understand both the F-14 and Su-27 have a radome of 40 inches I think maybe 42 inches in the case of the SU-27

Is Su-27 has bigger radome than F-14? I thought it is the opposite?
Irbis-E diameter is 90 cm while AWG-9 diameter is 91 cm so I assume F-14 nose is slightly bigger?

 

[paralay]

 

[Ronny]

I got to say, Su-27 is among the most elegant 4 gen aircraft

 

[paralay]

In the "fourth generation", everyone is handsome

 

[BlackBat242]

F-14D,

Not so sure about that, as the F-15 has sufficient visibility over the nose for navy purposes and it's nose is big enough to accomodate an AWG-9 radar (assuming it was mounted further back in the nose, closer to where the cockpit is -- me and another member on WHIF had discussed this and concluded this)

KJ Lesnick

Looks a bit droopy to me - with plenty of forward/downward view with the nose raised a bit.