Douglas ATA-A1: Another « Skybus » project !

[Stargazer]

Ever heard of the Douglas « Skybus »? I can hear you from here: "Of course! That was supposed to be a much-enlarged airliner derivative of the XB-42 Mixmaster..."

Well, yeah. But no. Not THAT Skybus. A couple of days ago I came across this eBay item, an article about ANOTHER Douglas Skybus project. Much more conventional in layout (and probably a bit earlier too) it shares quite a few similarities with the Douglas DC-5, from which it seems to be derived, although it is different enough to be clearly considered a separate design.

Anyone know about that project? Although the scan is blurry, one can read "AIR TRANSPORT - SEPTEMBER 1944" at the bottom of the pages (I thought it was 1941 at first, but the seller gives it as a 1944 document).

The seller gives the aircraft's full designation as being the « Douglas ATA-A1 Skybus », another mystery since this is nowhere near a standard Douglas designation either!

 

[Apophenia]

You're right Stéphane, not a Douglas designation. The ATA stood for the US Air Transport Association and this Skybus was Douglas' response to a specification from ATA's Committee on Aircraft Requirements.

Presumably other manufacturers responded to the ATA-A1 spec. Does anyone know if Douglas or other aircraft makers created designs in response to aircraft specification ATA-B1?

"... transport airplanes built to engineering specifications, such as the ATA-Al and -Bl - drawn from past airline operating experience, in an effort to furnish the air traveler with improved service at lower cost."

Airport Planning, Charles Froesch and Walter Prokosch, John Wiley NY/Chapman & Hall London, 1946

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks for the pointer, Apophenia!

Indeed the footnote adds: "ATA-A1 and B1 Aircraft Specifications, prepared by the ATA Committee on Aircraft Requirements and issued by the Air Transport Association of America, Inc., Washington, D. C."

Whole excerpt can be found here:
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/charles-froesch/airport-planning-hci/page-3-airport-planning-hci.shtml

 

[VictorXL188]

I believe this is the same specification which led to the Lockheed Saturn, Northrop Pioneer and the Beech Quad

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://archive.aviationweek.com/issue/19440710#!&pid=1

 

[Maveric]

Interesting! Any designatio?

 

[sienar]

Proper thread

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4716.0.html

 

[Jos Heyman]

So where is the story on page 7? (refer the caption of the picture).

 

[Piper106]

"Powered by two 700 Hp engines..."??? Any information on which engine Douglas had in mind??? The artist's concept drawing looks kind of 'Ranger V12 -ish'.

 

[Dynoman]

1944 Douglas Skybus

 

[hesham]

Proper thread

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4716.0.html

You are right Seinar,we can merge those topics.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Proper thread

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4716.0.html

You are right Seinar,we can merge those topics.

It might be better to hold off on such a merge for the moment, especially since this Douglas design may well have had it's origins in the Feeder Airlines Association technical committee's specifications (refined from the original 1943 'Bazley concept' for an aircraft dedicated to so-called pick-up operations) for a '1944 Feeder Airliner' that hesham has already mentioned in another topic.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201945%20010.pdf

 

[VictorXL188]

"Powered by two 700 Hp engines..."??? Any information on which engine Douglas had in mind??? The artist's concept drawing looks kind of 'Ranger V12 -ish'.

I think that this could be a good candidate for the powerplant of the Douglas Skybus. Front picture of October 16 1944 issue of Av Week

 

[riggerrob]

Sadly, the flood of war-surplus DC-3s and engines ruined the chances of the Douglas Skybus and the next dozen "DC-3 replacement" airliners. It was not until the 1960s - and DC-3s wearing out - that any "DC-3 replacement" project got into production.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Can anyone confirm whether or not the Feeder Airline Association merged with the Air Transport Association in 1947?

EDIT: Though it seems they were still in existence as of 1948.

 

[VS1]

Can anyone confirm whether or not the Feeder Airline Association merged with the Air Transport Association in 1947?

EDIT: Though it seems they were still in existence as of 1948.

No they did not. The ATA report from 1948 states that there is close co-operation between them and the Council of Local Service Airlines. No mention is made of absorbing the Feeder Airlines Assoc.

In 1947, the Feeder Airlines got temporarily recognized as Local Service Airlines by the CAB. The Feeder Airlines Association (1944-47) was dissolved and was effectively replaced by the new Council of Local Service Airlines in 1947. Once the Local Service Airlines became permanent in 1955, the Council of Local Service Airlines was renamed the Association of Local Transport Airlines (ALTA) in 1957. ALTA then went defunct sometime in the early 1980s after deregulation occurred in 1978.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Aviation Week — July 10 1944

Explore the full July 10 1944 issue of Aviation Week. Browse featured articles, preview selected issue contents, and more.

archive.aviationweek.com

And from Aeroplane 1944.

 

[BAFFLEDBOAR]

Ever heard of the Douglas « Skybus »? I can hear you from here: "Of course! That was supposed to be a much-enlarged airliner derivative of the XB-42 Mixmaster..."

Well, yeah. But no. Not THAT Skybus. A couple of days ago I came across this eBay item, an article about ANOTHER Douglas Skybus project. Much more conventional in layout (and probably a bit earlier too) it shares quite a few similarities with the Douglas DC-5, from which it seems to be derived, although it is different enough to be clearly considered a separate design.

Anyone know about that project? Although the scan is blurry, one can read "AIR TRANSPORT - SEPTEMBER 1944" at the bottom of the pages (I thought it was 1941 at first, but the seller gives it as a 1944 document).

The seller gives the aircraft's full designation as being the « Douglas ATA-A1 Skybus », another mystery since this is nowhere near a standard Douglas designation either!

Is there anyway you can show a better shot of the middle photo? If not, its okay. Also, does anybody have specifications for this?