Discussion on F-35 topics and their control

[totoro]

Is this news ONLY topic or news and personal commentaries topic??? Shouldn't ALL the commentaries go into a separate topic?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

So, last warning, ONLY NEWS, or this thread gets locked !

Do you consider explaining a news story as Geoff and I have tried to do an unacceptable commentary?

 

[Jemiba]

My warning was aimed at all members, but I'm still not reading all posts just the moment they are posted, sorry !
This thread is limited to news only, because in our experience, all divergences from this rule have invariably
led to flaming quarrels and those to unacceptable personal insults.
So, please, if you have questions to any news posted here ... just ask via PM ! It's really a pity, but a reasonable
discussion about this theme seems not to be possible in the moment. And where to draw a line between "explanation",
"interpretation" and "expression of opinion" ? So, again, the plea to ALL MEMBERS:
News without any comments only, for discussions please use PM or email !
Perhaps, when the waves are calmed, a normal discussion will be possible again here, maybe when the F-35 has already
been in service for some years ....

 

[Thorvic]

My warning was aimed at all members, but I'm still not reading all posts just the moment they are posted, sorry !
This thread is limited to news only, because in our experience, all divergences from this rule have invariably
led to flaming quarrels and those to unacceptable personal insults.
So, please, if you have questions to any news posted here ... just ask via PM ! It's really a pity, but a reasonable
discussion about this theme seems not to be possible in the moment. And where to draw a line between "explanation",
"interpretation" and "expression of opinion" ? So, again, the plea to ALL MEMBERS:
News without any comments only, for discussions please use PM or email !
Perhaps, when the waves are calmed, a normal discussion will be possible again here, maybe when the F-35 has already
been in service for some years ....

Ah But what is classed as news, offiical statements and press releases from the Manufacturere, Customer and Government, recognised defence journals or crappy poor;y researched articles in the mainstream press written by sub standard defence journalists to create a news story when there isn't one.
This is why the F-35 program threads are so screwed up as the truth is lost somewhere in the PR hype and end is high stories put out by doom mongers and about 100 supporting articles that appear for each as journalists repeat what they read for their own publications.

The only way you can keep this to genuine news is to have posts vetted for news or hearsay before its posted, otherwise any chicken shite article will be posted and prompt a dicussion to clarify it, otherwise the news standards drop to about the level of a red top tabloid.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I have a solution in mind. Stay tuned.

 

[totoro]

I guess we need a separate, temporary topic where ideas about the nature of this topic could be discussed. In the meantime, I don't see why anyone should be deciding how newsworthy is some piece of news, what is spin and what is not.


Every post with a link to an already known source claiming something about f35 is news. It can be US goverment website, manufacturer's website, independent organization analysis or what not. Yes, a good deal of that may be garbage or disinformation. But all forum members may form their own opinions on what is garbage and what is not. And in a SEPARATE topic forum members may try to explain their views on various reported news. But not here. Here personal opinions of forum members (which are not the same as personal opinions of "industry analysts", however ludicrous they might be) should be banned.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I guess we need a separate, temporary topic where ideas about the nature of this topic could be discussed. In the meantime, I don't see why anyone should be deciding how newsworthy is some piece of news, what is spin and what is not.


Every post with a link to an already known source claiming something about f35 is news. It can be US goverment website, manufacturer's website, independent organization analysis or what not. Yes, a good deal of that may be garbage or disinformation. But all forum members may form their own opinions on what is garbage and what is not. And in a SEPARATE topic forum members may try to explain their views on various reported news. But not here. Here personal opinions of forum members (which are not the same as personal opinions of "industry analysts", however ludicrous they might be) should be banned.

Ahh mate at only 16 posts on this forum I'm not quite sure you should be the one laying down the law. Everyone else is happy with the way Paul and the mods has split the F-35 threads and are managing them. I think we all understand the underlying reason why the threads were split which is the overwhelming of news with debate. Someone explaining a news story without injecting their opinion or an argument for or against is more than acceptable.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I am looking at possibly making this topic moderated, such that anyone can submit a post but it only goes live once verified to be good.

It is indeed very sad that we can't discuss a major aerospace program without descending into anarchy, but it seems to be so. The primary purpose of this forum is posts about unbuilt projects, not giant circular arguments about F-35 costing/capability which never go anywhere. When any topic overwhelms the forum with crap, it needs to be controlled.

 

[bobbymike]

I am looking at possibly making this topic moderated, such that anyone can submit a post but it only goes live once verified to be good.

It is indeed very sad that we can't discuss a major aerospace program without descending into anarchy, but it seems to be so. The primary purpose of this forum is posts about unbuilt projects, not giant circular arguments about F-35 costing/capability which never go anywhere. When any topic overwhelms the forum with crap, it needs to be controlled.

Although I have not written too many posts in the 'No Holds Barred' thread I think it serves a useful purpose because there are some very smart people like AG whose arguaments are very informative.

 

[Stargazer]

Has it all reached such a degree of absurdity that we should now have, not just a topic on the F-35, not just one for F-35 news and one for F-35-related discussion, but also an F-35-related topic to discuss the relevancy of, and control over, other F-35 topics?!?!? Not to mention the daily requests for moderator intervention which are absolutely all F-35-related?

Man, I've seen things turn silly before on this forum over other aircraft, and also on automotive forums when certain new models were released, but never to that level of ridicule. And everytime it happens, the one sentence that sums up best the contributions of most posters is "Get a life!" Discussing opinions is nice, but turning a subject into a personal feud or getting all heated up about decision-making that none of us around here will ever have any control over gets pretty tiresome and is pointless at the end of the day. Especially when page after page is filled and everyone thinks their opinion is gold and all others are idiots.