Did RAF Bomber Command ever bomb Germany's coal mines and pit heads?

[MarktheMole]

I'm researching a book on RAF Bomber Command and wanted to know if ever it targeted coal mines and pit heads, especially in the Ruhr?
There are suggestion Air Ministry intelligence told the RAF the coal mines were too small as targets. Does anyone have documentary evidence of this?
Thanks to all contributors,
Marcus Gibson, London

 

[Scott Kenny]

I haven't read of any such raids. It was always on the direct factories, or the Ruhr dams, not the coal plants.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Also, remember that most hard rock coal mines (as opposed to open pits) have pretty good sized rail yards attached to them, and bombing the rail yards would be just as effective as hitting the mines themselves, if quicker to fix.

Bombing open pit coal mines would be ineffective, though. You're either breaking up coal into smaller pieces or just moving overburden around. And mines have plenty of capability to remove overburden.

 

[Yellow Palace]

Also, remember that most hard rock coal mines (as opposed to open pits) have pretty good sized rail yards attached to them, and bombing the rail yards would be just as effective as hitting the mines themselves, if quicker to fix.

Rail yards are an absolute pig to destroy, though. GP bombs will probably wreck the rolling stock, but the actual rail infrastructure will survive anything less than a direct hit. You also need to hit the switches to have any real effect - relaying plain track was normal business in that era, especially in places like mines. IIRC, it was reckoned in the Cold War that a one-megaton groundburst was needed to reliably kill a rail yard.

Precision bombing the pitheads might actually be easier, especially if you have access to Tallboy-type earthquake bombs.

 

[PMN1]

On the subject of rail yards, this is apparently what Barnes Wallis calculated.

From Paul Brickhill’s ‘The Dambusters’

He worked out theoretical figures, more pages of figures, and decided there was a chance that a 10-ton bomb exploding deep in water by a dam wall would punch out a hole a hundred feet across.

Supposing the bomb did not go as deeply into the earth as the figures predicted? Wallis worked out the effects of a 10-tonner exploding about 40ft deep. In theory it would throw out the staggering amount of 12,000 tons of earth, leaving a crater 70ft deep, with lips 250ft across. He worked out the circumference of the crater and from that the maximum number of men and machines that could gather round the edges. Working day and night they could not fill it in in under 14 days. Supposing one such bomb was dropped accurately in a marshalling yard, or on a vital railway or canal or road where ground contours prohibited a detour.

 

[Nik]

I'm reminded that breaching those dams did a lot of infrastructure and morale damage down-stream. One thing to crater a switch-yard, quite another to wash-out everything, and their attached industries...

Sadly, a lot of 'pressed' workers also died, from flood or hypothermia...

FWIW, though the dams were repaired, they were provided with a lot more AAA, close air support, torpedo/mine booms etc etc against further attack. Which never came. Similarly, the dams were not refilled to near previous levels, limiting power draw...

I've seen an estimate that those enhanced dam defences 'tied down' the equivalent of several regiments, albeit of 'secondary' or 'tertiary' forces who, of course, still needed housing, feeding etc etc...

 

[Scott Kenny]

On the subject of rail yards, this is apparently what Barnes Wallis calculated.

From Paul Brickhill’s ‘The Dambusters’

He worked out theoretical figures, more pages of figures, and decided there was a chance that a 10-ton bomb exploding deep in water by a dam wall would punch out a hole a hundred feet across.

Supposing the bomb did not go as deeply into the earth as the figures predicted? Wallis worked out the effects of a 10-tonner exploding about 40ft deep. In theory it would throw out the staggering amount of 12,000 tons of earth, leaving a crater 70ft deep, with lips 250ft across. He worked out the circumference of the crater and from that the maximum number of men and machines that could gather round the edges. Working day and night they could not fill it in in under 14 days. Supposing one such bomb was dropped accurately in a marshalling yard, or on a vital railway or canal or road where ground contours prohibited a detour.

That would definitely put paid to a rail yard, if they could hit one close enough.

 

[Nik]

IIRC, I've seen a critique that his scary estimate would only apply to first such crater. Subsequent repair work would be much faster as eg mobile conveyers, as used for 'heaps' or 'spoil', could be brought from nearby mines, quarries etc so access was not limited to circumference.

 

[Scott Kenny]

IIRC, I've seen a critique that his scary estimate would only apply to first such crater. Subsequent repair work would be much faster as eg mobile conveyers, as used for 'heaps' or 'spoil', could be brought from nearby mines, quarries etc so access was not limited to circumference.

Takes a long time to move those big machines, though. And when they're filling holes at one mine, they're not moving product at another mine.

 

[Nik]

Not drag-lines, but portable conveyors, as used to make 'heaps' or pile 'spoil'. They must be 'readily' mobile, are often wheeled to allow swift re-positioning. Sometimes called 'heap', 'leach-pile' or 'grass-hopper' conveyors...

 

[Scott Kenny]

Not drag-lines, but portable conveyors, as used to make 'heaps' or pile 'spoil'. They must be 'readily' mobile, are often wheeled to allow swift re-positioning. Sometimes called 'heap', 'leach-pile' or 'grass-hopper' conveyors...

Right.

It's one thing to move them 50m or so. It's another to move one 50km.

 

[publiusr]

Bombing open pit coal mines would be ineffective, though. You're either breaking up coal into smaller pieces or just moving overburden around. And mines have plenty of capability to remove overburden.

Perhaps a fire like that in Centralia could be started in some mines or dumps...we have an underground fire in Moody Alabama that was really bothersome.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Perhaps a fire like that in Centralia could be started in some mines or dumps...we have an underground fire in Moody Alabama that was really bothersome.

Not easy to cause a shaft mine fire from above ground, though. Sounds more like an OSS project.

 

[Charlesferdinand]

Not easy to cause a shaft mine fire from above ground, though. Sounds more like an OSS project.

That would make a good war movie.

 

[BlackBat242]

Underground coal-seam fires can burn for centuries, and can self-ignite, or be started by lightning or wildfires. This happens where a coal seam is naturally exposed at the surface.
Burning Mountain in Australia is believed by scientists to have been burning for 6,000 years.

 

[Scott Kenny]

That would make a good war movie.

Sure would!

 

[Yellow Palace]

Perhaps a fire like that in Centralia could be started in some mines or dumps...we have an underground fire in Moody Alabama that was really bothersome.

Interestingly, one of the coal mines in Svalbard was set alight by gunfire from TIRPITZ in September 1943, burning until 1962.

 

[Nik]

By 'mobile conveyor', I mean this, fore-ground variety, or their wheeled, towable kin.

 

[riggerrob]

One problem deteriorating WALLIED bombing accuracy was only discovered after the war. In his auto-biography, Grumman test-pilot Corky Meyers mentions test-flying early jet fighters with WW2-surplus iron bombs. Upon returning to base, they noticed crumpled tail fins on bombs when they flew early jet fighters faster than 600 miles per hour. Grumman suggested stiffer tail fins … which eventually led to the low-drag iron bombs that are currently in fashion.
Surely WW2 iron bombs freefell at more than 600 mph.