Conversions Russian battleship Poltava later renamed Mikhail Frunze

[Roodbaard1958!]

Rene Greger published in Warship 1990 a small note dealing with the Russian battleship Poltava later renamed Frunze and the several proposals to convert her. He mentioned a conversion into a battle cruiser (confirmed by McLaughlin) and published 1 sketch (McLaughlin 2) and wrote that there were sketches of her proposed conversion into an aircraft carrier scheduled around 1925. McLaughlin confirmed this idea but Greger neither McLaughlin published such a sketch. Can anyone supply such sketch(es). Secondly Greger wrote that after 1926 other conversion schemes were proposed ranging from a floating battery to a fast battlecruiser; see for the latter above. Anyone familiar with this proposals? Breyer doesnt'supply more details.

 

[Dilandu]

There were several proposals to rebuild her - either restore as battleship (with significant refit), or rebuild her into a battlecruiser - but due to lack of funding in early 1930s, the projects were not implemented:

 

[Tzoli]

Yep, these are the two known projects, but even in her "Battlecruiser" proposal the expected speed was 50km/h or 27knots in par with the second generation battlecruisers (Lion, Queen Mary) but still better then the original 43/44km/h or 23-24knots.

Note that the expected installed engine power was 120.000shp while the original had 42.000shp but after the 1928 refit, 61.000shp. Which shows the difficulty of increasing the speed of WW1 or in this case pre-WW1 era battleships to WW2 era standards.

 

[Force Lord]

There was also a proposal to convert the Frunze/Poltava into an aircraft carrier, which also foundered due to the Red Army shooting down funding for it.

 

[cattalonX]

 

[YourChair]

Линейный крейсер «Фрунзе» - вариант модификации линкора «Полтава». - Альтернативная История

Линейный крейсер «Фрунзе» - вариант модификации линкора «Полтава». - Альтернативная История

www.alternathistory.ru

Some Russian guy on the "Little-known unrealized projects" section of this blog provides a lot of details on the reconstruction, with source stated as "Gangut magazine, No. 20"

Excerpt:

Then everything went back to the same old circle. On December 29, 1935, V. M. Orlov reported to K. E. Voroshilov: the task could be completed with the completion of work on the ship in the fall of 1938, with an expenditure of about 60 million rubles. The Baltic Shipyard Design Bureau worked on two initiative options:

• with a middle deck thickened to 100 mm, with a long-range anti-aircraft caliber of four twin-gun 100 mm artillery mounts and with bulges necessary to ensure stability;
• the same, but with a speed of up to 22-23 knots due to the use of 10 boilers from unfinished cruisers of the Svetlana type that the plant had. In this case, one pipe remained, and the cost of restoration, as in the first initiative version, was estimated at 72 million rubles.

The People's Commissar's decision followed: "Submit a report on the latest version to the government); start work on 1936, 2.02.36" . But the race to design new battleships had already begun, in which the Baltic Shipyard Design Bureau played a very active role, and soon the industry and the navy had no time for the Frunze. Design work on it ceased, and restoration work did not begin, although the ship remained standing at the shipyard wall for a long time.

The idea of restoring the Frunze was finally abandoned only on July 9, 1939, when the Main Military Council of the Navy recognized it as inexpedient and decided to dismantle the equipment remaining on the ship for spare parts for the Marat-class battleships. It was decided to take the hull out of Leningrad and put it on a sandbank or bank in the eastern part of the Gulf of Finland for use as an "experimental" one.

 

[Dilandu]

Линейный крейсер «Фрунзе» - вариант модификации линкора «Полтава». - Альтернативная История

Линейный крейсер «Фрунзе» - вариант модификации линкора «Полтава». - Альтернативная История

www.alternathistory.ru

Some Russian guy on the "Little-known unrealized projects" section of this blog provides a lot of details on the reconstruction, with source stated as "Gangut magazine, No. 20"

Excerpt:

Frankly, I think that decision not to proceed with Frunze in 1930s was a major mistake; rebuilding her would provide Soviet shipbuilders with invaluable experience for subsequent work on "Big Fleet" battleships.

 

[Roodbaard1958!]

Thx for all response until now

As I wrote above Rene Greger (Warship 1990) also referred to a conversion into an aircraft carrier under the 1925-1931 programme just like the battlecruiser Ismail to be done in 1925. The Poltava would carry 50, the Ismail 90 aircraft. Greger mentioned that according to sketches the Poltava was completely flush decked with no Island just like the first Japanese carriers. It seems that Greger saw some sketches, it's a pity he don't give any sources except for an article published in Sudostroenic. The Red fleet was a speciaility of him.

Jurgen Rowehwer/Mikhail S. Monakov in Stalin's oceanic-going fleet, page 16 wrote that Zof's deputy assistant V.I. Bzhezinskij presenten on 4 June 1925 the 1925-1931 programme asking for the conversion. Reference to J.N. Westwood, Russian Naval Construction 1905-1941, London, Macmillan , 1994 p. 138-9.

On the internet a certain Tomasso Balconi (https://www.shapeways.com/product/SK863C42Y/1-700-carrier-frunze-poltava-flight-deck-front) offered a model of her as aircraft carrier for sale. I presume he used drawings as base for this model.

 

[Tzoli]

Thx for all response until now

As I wrote above Rene Greger (Warship 1990) also referred to a conversion into an aircraft carrier under the 1925-1931 programme just like the battlecruiser Ismail to be done in 1925. The Poltava would carry 50, the Ismail 90 aircraft. Greger mentioned that according to sketches the Poltava was completely flush decked with no Island just like the first Japanese carriers. It seems that Greger saw some sketches, it's a pity he don't give any sources except for an article published in Sudostroenic. The Red fleet was a speciaility of him.

Jurgen Rowehwer/Mikhail S. Monakov in Stalin's oceanic-going fleet, page 16 wrote that Zof's deputy assistant V.I. Bzhezinskij presenten on 4 June 1925 the 1925-1931 programme asking for the conversion. Reference to J.N. Westwood, Russian Naval Construction 1905-1941, London, Macmillan , 1994 p. 138-9.

On the internet a certain Tomasso Balconi (https://www.shapeways.com/product/SK863C42Y/1-700-carrier-frunze-poltava-flight-deck-front) offered a model of her as aircraft carrier for sale. I presume he used drawings as base for this model.

You can find them here:
Neither the Frunze nor the Ismail would be flush decked.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/pre-1945-russian-and-soviet-aircraft-carrier-projects.25610/

 

[Roodbaard1958!]

You can find them here:
Neither the Frunze nor the Ismail would be flush decked.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/pre-1945-russian-and-soviet-aircraft-carrier-projects.25610/

I completely forgot the book of Sokolov. It was hided between some thick books. Flush decked was Gregers opinion, I just quoted him

 

[Julio Garay Terrazas]

Here is the image that i get in the online Sovokov book. I'm not sure if I can post the link here in the board. If possible, just ask me.

 

[drwells42]

And the analogous drawing for the Izmail.

DRW