Consolidated models (first numbering system)

[hesham]

Hi,

The Consolidated company designed many aircraft;

1 PT-1 two seat primary trainer biplane.
2 PT-2,PT-3 & NY a development from PT-1.
3 ------?.
4 ------?.
5 ------?.
6 ------?
7 O-17 was PT-3 developed for National Guard as observation aircraft.
8 ------?.
9 PY-1 Admiral twin engined flying boat.
10 high wing light monoplane.
11 ------?.
12 N2Y not sure.
13 ------?.
14 Husky Junior a civil version of PT-1.
15 XO-17A with 220 hp Wright J-5 engine.
16 Commodore a civil version of USN XPY-1.
17 Fleetster parasol wing light transport monoplane.
18 BY-1 carrierborne light bomber developed from Model-17.
19 ------?.
20 Fleetster it was developed from Model-17.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

21 BT-7 basic trainer biplane.
22 P2Y-1 Ranger two/three engined flying boat.
23 YO-41 Thomas-Morse two seat obsrevation biplane.
24 B2Y-1 USN dive bomber.
25 P-25 two seat fighter.
26 P-30 two seat fighter.
27 ------?.
28 PBY Catalina.
29 PB2Y Coronado.
30 ------?.
31 P4Y .
32 B-24 Liberator.
33 & 34 B-32 Dominator.
35 a project for strategic bomber.
36 B-36.
37 XC-99.
38 -----?.
39 R2Y.
40 Privateer.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

The Consolidated PB3Y was four engined patrol bomber flying boat
project,powered by P & W R-2800-18 engines and two 20 mm
cannons and ten 0.5 in guns plus 22000 1b of bombs,I want to
know which Model number it was taken ?.

 

[Jos Heyman]

The XPB3Y-1 (model 34) was the prototype of a long range flying boat for patrol and bombardment missions. A single example was ordered in April 1942 with serial 32386 but was subsequently cancelled in November 1942. However, John Wegg, in General Dynamics Aircraft, also lists it as model 30.

Jos Heyman

 

[Jos Heyman]

Here are some more model numbers from John Wegg's book General Dynamics Aircraft:
3 Design for a Navy competition
4 Biplane design
5 Monoplane design
6 Monoplane design for US Army
8 O-17 seaplane version
10 Civilian high wing light monoplane.
11 Twin engined bomber design
12 Commercian PT-3 variant
13 not used
15 Wasp powered commercial Courier
23 Thomas Morse XO-932
27 A-11
35 Tandem tractor/pusher design
38 Model 31 wing with B-24D fuselage

 

[hesham]

Thank you Jos,

And what about Model-3,for which competition it was designed ?.

 

[lark]

Gentlemen,

Maybe it's good to know that Consolidated used initialy two systems for their designations.

One system for design proposals.These proposals were numbered sequentialy and ech
given a 2 letter prefix to designate the aircraft type.
LB - Land Bomber , LC - Land Commercial , SC - Seaplane Commercial

The other system assigned to designs intended for actual production.

model 30 -XB-24 stemmed from design proposal LB-16.
model 33 -XB-32 from LB-25

The twin engined Liberator for the U.S.Navy was designs proposal LB-29.

Several sources , among them 'The B-24 Liberator' Allan G.Blue - Ian Allan.1976
' General Dynamics Aircraft and their Predecessors'
John Wegg - Putnam.1990

 

[hesham]

Great thanks to you my dear lark.

 

[lark]

Jos,

Was the drawing of the Consolidated XPB3Y-1 flying boat project
-SanDiego Air Museum- published somewhere ?

Thanks in advance for a bit more info.

 

[Jos Heyman]

I obtained that some years ago from the San Diego museum after I contacted them. It was all done electronically.

 

[lark]

I see...
Anyway thanks.

 

[nugo]

Hello Friends!

Consolidated Model 30-----XPB3Y-1
Consolidated Model 34-----B-32

 

[lark]

Any sources or references nugo ?

 

[hesham]

Hi,

about the Model-34----B-32,it was mentioned in www.aerofiles.com

 

[nugo]

Hello!

Consolidated Model 30----XPB3Y-1
To mine: Letectvi-Kosmonavtika(The Czech magazine),
Year and number I shall look precisely.

 

[lark]

Correction of my post April 6.

XB-24 (Consolidated San Diego production) model 32 stemmed from LB-16 (instead of model 30)

('30' changed with LB-30)

My mistake. Sorry.

 

[nugo]

Hi!

Consolidated from Model 100--118.

Model 100----ex-Model 40, PB4Y-2/P4Y-2/P-4B
Model 101----RY-3
Model 102----X,YP-81
Model 103----aka Stout Sky Car IV /Spratt-Stout Model 8
Model 104-----ex-Model 39, X,R2Y-1
Model 105-----L-13
Model 106-----Convair-Stinson 106 Skycoach
Model 107-----?
Model 108-----Stinson Voyager 150
Model 109-----XB-46, (new) Model 1
Model 110-----prototepe of the Convair 240
Model 111-----Air Car
Model 112-----?
Model 113-----?
Model 114-----?
Model 115-----XP-92 (project)
Model 116-----ConVairCar
Model 117-----P5Y/R3Y, (new) Model 3
Model 118-----ConVairCar
Model 119(?)
.......(?)

 

[Stargazer]

Let us not forget Model 90, the Consolidated-Vultee XA-41 attack. How this one fits in is mysterious, but it's most certainly not a Vultee designator.

EDIT: Silly me! Of course it IS a Vultee designator!

 

[lark]

The illustration with Jos Heyman's post (reply#3) shows the final
version-July1942- of the Consolidated XPB3Y-1 large seaplane patrol bomber Model34.
The earliest record of it is May 1937 when it was conceived in response
to Navy requirement OS-116-16.

A commercial variant of the Model 34 was studied in November 1941
based on these final XPB3Y-1 version.

Source : abridged from 'Convair Advanced Designs' Robert E.Bradley
Specialty Press 2010.

 

[Stargazer]

I have created a separate topic for Consolidated-Vultee and Convair designators. It can be found here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11189.0

 

[Stargazer]

Thought I'd posted my own Consolidated list... and just realized I hadn't. Here is a simplified version of it:

1 TRUSTY two-seat trainer (PT-1/XPT-2/ATC-79)
2 HUSKY two-seat trainer (NY-1/ATC-80/NY-2/ATC-81/NY-3/PT-3/XO-17/ATC-83)
3 design for Navy competition; no details
4 biplane design; no details
5 monoplane design with Wright J-5 engine
6 monoplane design for Army Air Corps
7 COURIER, a PT-3 derivative developed for ANG (O-17) and RCAF; also ATC-82
8 COURIER, apparently applied to the seaplane version
9 ADMIRAL (XPY-1) U.S. Navy patrol boat
10 cabin monoplane with Wright J-5B engine [X7279]
11 twin-engined bomber design dropped in favor of joint S-37 project with Sikorsky Co.
12 HUSKY, a commercial PT-3 variant
13 (designation believed not used)
14 HUSKY JUNIOR bathtub-cockpit trainer (ATC-84) and naval Fleet N2Y variants
15 COURIER, a PT-3 converted to XO-17A with 220hp Wright J-5; also ATC-82 and XPT-8
16 COMMODORE (P2Y-1) Navy patrol flying-boat and ATC-258 civilian version
17 FLEETSTER high wing monoplane (ATC-291,-369; Group 2-219,-331,-341,-402)
18 FLEETSTER (XBY-1) Navy version
19 unknown
20 FLEETSTER parasol monoplane (Group 2-231; ATC-320,-494)
21 TRAINER biplane (XPT-933, XBT-937; PT-11,-12; BT-6, BT-7; Navy N4Y, etc.)
22 RANGER (Navy P2Y-2, P2Y-3) patrol flying boat
23 XO-932 rebuild of Thomas-Morse Y1O-41 sesquiplane for unsuccessful military trials
24 Navy XB2Y-1 and B2Y-2
25 USAAC Y1P-25 monoplane pursuit
26 USAAC P-30 (PB-2) and P-30A (PB-2A) monoplane pursuit
27 USAAC XA-11 attack variant of P-30 modified from Y1P-25
28 CATALINA (Navy P3Y, PBY series; USAAF OA-10; Group 2-543; ATC-785)
29 CORONADO (Navy PB2Y series)
30 XPB3Y-1 project
31 CORREGIDOR, civilian prototype later modified as Navy XP4Y-1
32 LIBERATOR (USAAF B-24 series, XB-41, F-7; Navy PB4Y-1; LB-30 British variants)
33 TERMINATOR (XB-32) bomber prototypes / DOMINATOR (B-32) production version
34 XPB3Y-1 large seaplane patrol bomber
35 6-engined tandem tractor/pusher bomber design, not built
36 PEACEMAKER (B-36 series) long-range heavy bomber
37 USAAF XC-99 cargo-transport airplane; PEGASUS/AIRLINER and SUPER CLIPPER projects
38 B-24D fuselage fitted with Model 31 wing, project only
39 LIBERATOR LINER prototype, later impressed as Navy R2Y-1 (became Model 104)
40 PRIVATEER (PB4Y-2, RY series; C-87C) the naval version of Model 32

Unidentified types/projects include:
* the N3Y-1, one NY-2 tested with a Wright R-790A Whirlwind engine (perhaps Model 19?)
* a six-engine pusher flying-wing design
* the TBY-2 SEAWOLF production of the Vought prototype (180 ex.) (1944) (probably designated as "VS2")
* the canceled "OA-6", a 1936 twin-engine flying boat project

Earlier, undesignated types taken over by Consolidated:
* Dayton-Wright's TW-3 (Clark design)
* Huff-Daland TW-5
* Dayton-Wright "TW-8" (apparently non official designation); prototype of PT-1

 

[lark]

A bit additional info...

Model 32 B-24 bomber 1939
Model 32 transport studies c.a.1941
Model 32 commercial studies c.a.1941

Model 33 B-32 bomber 1940 named Terminator 1943 by Consolidated.
Changed to Dominator by the Air Corps.Later
reversed by the StateDepartment to Terminator again.
Model 33 transport studies c.a.1943
Model 33 commercial studies 1941

Model 34 XPB3Y-1 flying boat c.a 1937
Model 34 commercial flying boat studies c.a 1941

so far :Robert E. Bradley in Convair Advanced designs -secret projects from San Diego 1923-1962

 

[Stargazer]

Weird that this book seems to contradict all we previously knew to be the Model 34... ???

 

[lark]

There are 4 pages about this Model 34 in the mentioned book
with at least five four-engined variants....

 

[Stargazer]

Topic name changed.

Recent finds could indicate that the system went as far up as Model 53 before the switch to the Consolidated-Vultee 100+ system.

 

[Spook]

A picture of a C-87c Liberator Express which was one of the variants of the C-87 that was proposed variant of the RY-3.

Regards,
AK

 

[Stargazer]

Very nice, AK. Thanks!

 

[Stargazer]

The cover to Convair's ZA-33-001 report indicates that two variants were proposed:

• The Model 33, powered by Wright R-3350 engines (the variant that was built as the XB-32);
• The Model 33A, powered by Pratt & Whitney R-2800 engines.

I haven't been able to find photos of all three prototypes of the XB-32, but I wonder whether the two engines were tested on the prototypes, or only the Wright ones.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

maybe there was a little known series to Consolidated called BM,I recognize only;
BM-7,BM-8,BM-9,BM-11,BM-12 & BM-38 ?.

 

[toura]

Hi all

I Don't remember when and where I've found this !!!


But do you know more of this plane ? designation, true or fake ??
THANKS

paul

 

[Retrofit]

Hi all

I Don't remember when and where I've found this !!!

Le Fana de l'aviation Hors Série n°54 "Les bombardiers américains 1917-1946" (page 77)

More information in Scott's US Bomber Projects number 9

 

[toura]

Thank you Retrofit for your prompt answer…….
but I've not this paper, !!
No serie number for this study ?
Thanks again
PAUL

 

[Retrofit]

No serial number, Scott's drawing is labeled as "Consolidated Army Bombardment Type"

 

[Stargazer]

Consolidated usually gave Model numbers only to projects that had evolved to production status or planned production status.

Many of the numerous design studies were done under various inhouse designation systems (such as the LB- series for bombers, LO- for observation, etc.) but more often than not, and especially after the Consolidated-Vultee merger, the company didn't bother giving their projects a designation. So what happens very often is that historians use the number of the plan or drawing to reference them.

 

[toura]

Thank you Retrofit and Skyblazer

Hi, Retrofit see my mail Via "Secret projects"

 

[hesham]

A real project of course.

 

[toura]

Hi Hesham

Thank you !!!!!
I've now my version
Retrofit give my the same but with a pod Under the fuselage
and you you give me an float version

I'm truly happy
thaks all of you
PAUL

 

[hesham]

LB - Land Bomber , LC - Land Commercial , SC - Seaplane Commercial

Also with BM (Seaplane Military),most of them are not known,except many LB only ?!.

 

[AM]

Also with BM (Seaplane Military),most of them are not known,except many LB only ?!.

Hi all

BM = Boat Military
also BC - Boat Commercial, LO - Land Observation, SC - Seaplane Commercial

 

[Peter V]

Ref Stargazer's list:
The Model 15 Courier was a Pratt & Whitney-powered experimental commercial variant but only a prototype was completed.
Source: Putnam's "General Dynamics Aircraft and their predecessors" by John Wegg.
In my opinion, the XO-17A is not Model 15, but a Model 2.

Regards,
Peter