Competitive Curtiss "H-75" in 1940?

Elan Vital

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Hi everyone,

Just some random thought after reading Cuny and Danel's entry in the Docavia book series, this time on the Curtiss H-75.

Work on improved cowlings in the XP-42 achieved 540-550 kph instead of 500-ish kph for a regular H-75 thanks to reduced drag.

The Pratt and the Wright radials equipping the H-75 were not fitted with particularly advanced superchargers.

So with more careful development of the aerodynamics, structural weight and superchargers, could Curtiss make the H-75 competitive in the European skies of 1940 even on the R-1830/1820 radials? Something as fast/faster than the Bloch 155 for example, or even competitive with Bf-109E.
 
Hi everyone,

Just some random thought after reading Cuny and Danel's entry in the Docavia book series, this time on the Curtiss H-75.

Work on improved cowlings in the XP-42 achieved 540-550 kph instead of 500-ish kph for a regular H-75 thanks to reduced drag.

The Pratt and the Wright radials equipping the H-75 were not fitted with particularly advanced superchargers.

So with more careful development of the aerodynamics, structural weight and superchargers, could Curtiss make the H-75 competitive in the European skies of 1940 even on the R-1830/1820 radials? Something as fast/faster than the Bloch 155 for example, or even competitive with Bf-109E.
Curtiss P-36 evolution​



The Curtiss H75 won the United States Army Air Corps (USAAC) fighter contest of 1939 and was accepted as the U.S. standard pursuit airplane, under the designation P-36A Hawk.

Designed in 27,000 hours in late 1934, the H75 was a monoplane fighter with enclosed cockpit, flaps and retractable undercarriage, powered by one 1,050 hp R-1830-13 Twin Wasp radial engine and armed with two nose mounted 0.50 cal and two wing mounted 0.30 cal machine guns. The Hawk top speed was 300 mph (483 kph) and the service ceiling was 15,000 ft (4,572 m).

In May 1938 the Chinese government ordered 30 Curtiss H75 M, the exportation version with fixed undercarriage, 280 mph top speed and Wright GR-1820-G3 engine, rated at 875 hp. The city of Chungking was defended by the new fighter until the arrival of the Japanese air-superiority fighter Mitsubishi A6M2 Type 11 Zero-Sen (331 mph) in September 1940.

In November 1938 the Thai government ordered twelve H75 N, export version equivalent to the H75 M with two wing mounted 20 mm cannons. On 8 December 1940 three H75 M were destroyed by the Nakajima Ki.43-Ia of the Imperial Japanese Army (IJA).

Between December 1938 and May 1940 the French government ordered 619 Curtiss H75 A powered by one 1,200 hp Pratt & Whitney S1C3-G (or one Wright R-1820-G205-A) radial engine and armed with four 7.5 mm FN Mle 38 machine guns.

With 303 mph top speed the French fighter performed well, fighting on equal terms with the Messerschmitt Bf 109 D during the ‘Phoney War’ and eluding the attacks of the Bf 109 E during the Battle of France.

In July 1939 the Norwegian government purchased twelve H75 A-6, powered by one 1,200 hp Pratt & Whitney R-1830-SC3-G engine, and twelve more after the invasion of Poland. On the German attack day, 9 April 1940, nineteen Norwegian Curtiss were delivered but none were in flying condition, four aircraft were destroyed by the Heinkel He 111 H-4 bombers of the KG/4 and KG/26, the rest were captured without ever having come to fly.

Nine H75 A-2 and seven H75 A-4 ex-Armée de l'Air fighters were supplied by Germany to the Finnish Air Force in June 1941 and another fifteen H75 A-4 between June 1943 and January 1944. Eleven ex-Norwegian H75 A-6 were additionally supplied between July and August 1941.

During the ‘Continuation War’, the Hawks managed to shoot down twenty-one I-153, eleven I-16, three DB-3F, fifteen MiG-3, sixteen LaGG-3, two Yak-1, nine Pe-2, three MBR-2, two U-2, one Boston and two La-5. They lost 8 aircraft of their own.



The A-2 and A-6 models were powered by a 1,200 hp Pratt & Whitney R-1830-SC3-G engine and A-4 models by a 1,200 hp Wright Cyclone R-1820-95. Armament: six 7.5 mm FN / Browning Mle 38 machine guns.



In December 1941 thirty-seven P-36 A were based at Wheeler Field in Hawaii, during the Japanese attack eight of them carried out emergency take offs shooting down one Aichi D3A dive bomber and one Mitsubishi A6M2 Type 21 Zero-Sen of the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN).

The H75 inadequate performance at high altitude was a constant source of concern for the Curtiss Airplane Division staff.

In 1938 one H75 A-1 was modified as the H75 R high-altitude prototype, powered by one R-1830-SC2-G radial engine driving two centrifugal turbochargers, with ventral intercooler. During flight tests conducted in January 1939 the H75R reached a top speed of 330 mph flying at 15,000 ft. The USAAC considered insufficient the increase of performance and the H75 R unsuitable for operational service, due the complexity of the new propulsion system.

Curtiss continuing to perfect the concept, in 1943 the NX 28990 airframe of a H81A was powered by one R-1830-SSC7-G radial engine driving two centrifugal compressors housed in a new streamlined cowling. During flight tests conducted between July and October 1943, the high-altitude prototype reached a top speed of 389 mph and 25,000 ft of ceiling.

On 1 December 1943 the first North American P-51B Mustang, with 440 mph top speed and 42,000 ft ceiling, was delivered to the USAAF and the Curtiss prototype development was discontinued.

In 1939 all aircraft manufacturers competed for the few in-line available engines.

With the potentially deteriorating situation that a long war could create, some aerodynamic essays were performed in Germany, Belgium and the USA to reduce the radial engines air drag.

The Renard R-37 fighter was introduced to the public in July 1939 as an emergency solution, in face of the prospect that France and the United Kingdom might cancel the exports of the Hispano-Suiza and Merlin in-line engines. The R-37 was propelled by one Gnome-Rhône radial engine of 1,100 hp with a large propeller spinner which completely covered the engine front.

In Germany, the Focke-Wulf Company had the same problem after realising that the whole production of Daimler Benz in-line engines had been assigned to Messerschmitt. The design team of Kurt Tank was impelled to use the BMW radial engine for the new Focke-Wulf Fw 190 fighter, a prototype of which flew in June 1939 with an extremely aerodynamic cowling and a large ducted spinner to reduce drag.

In USA the NACA published a report at the beginning of 1939 about the methods to improve the volume of cooling air flowing over radial engines. In February 1939, Seversky performed the first flight tests with the NX2597 AP-4 Lancer prototype, equipped with ducted and non-ducted large propeller spinners. In March, Curtiss decided to experiment with the new technology transforming the P-36A s/n 38-004 into the XP-42 prototype by adding a large propeller spinner and extension shaft and one air intake placed under the R-1830-31 engine, the prototype suffered serious problems of vibrations.

In May 1940, the Japanese flight tested the third prototype of the Kawasaki Ki.45 with a spinner that was almost identical to that of the Fw 190 V1.

The Vultee 48 prototype NX21755 c/n 142 flew for the first time in September with an equipment similar to that of the Curtiss XP-42.

By mid of 1939 the Northrop Company tested the A-17A s/n 36-184 bomber with ducted and non-ducted large propeller spinners and several nose and side mounted blowers configurations.

In United Kingdom, the Hawker Company performed several late experiments by the beginning of 1945, modifying the Tempest Mk.V NV768 with several types of ducted spinners.

As a result of all this research, however, there was not any significant aerodynamic achievement. The R-37 was captured by the Germans before starting its flight tests, the Fw 190 V1, the Curtiss XP-42, the Vultee 48, the Kawasaki Ki.45-03 and the Seversky Lancer all encountered insurmountable cooling problems and had to be refitted with conventional cowlings. The A-17 A was turned back to its original configuration and back to operations.

Curtiss XP-42 technical data

Wingspan: 37.3 ft (11.37 m), length: 29.5 ft (8.99 m), height: 10 ft (3.05 m), wing area: 235 sq. ft (21.83 sq. m), max speed: 314 mph (506 kph), max weight: 6,259 lbs (2,839 kg), service ceiling: 31,000 ft (9,450 m).



On 6 November 1935 was flown the British Hawker Hurricane prototype reaching 315 mph speed and 33,000 ft ceiling.

The Supermarine Spitfire prototype flew on 5 March 1936 reaching 349 mph and 32,000 ft.

On 10 January 1937 entered in service the Messerschmitt Bf 109 B-1, with 287 mph and 26,900 ft and only ten days later the French prototype Morane-Saulnier M.S. 405 reached 298 mph and 30,840 ft.

On 5 November 1937 the Belgian prototype Renard R.36 (336 mph and 43,310 ft) made its first flight.

At the time when the Curtiss P-36A entering service, the U.S. fighter was already largely obsolescent by European standards.
 

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Mitsubishi Raiden prototype
 

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In the early 30's, American fighter aircraft technology was second class. An attempt to improve the USAAC capabilities was the 1935-36 design competition, intended to replace the Boeing P-26.
None of the contending designs from Seversky, Curtiss, Northrop and Consolidated could match the British Hurricane/Spitfire and German Bf 109 contemporaries.
The Curtiss Model 75 failed to win the competition but it was awarded with a contract for three prototypes. Later, in 1937, a production contract followed. In a worsening context of global violence, need for arming arose. Reasonable modern fighters were on demand, thus resulting on sales success for the Model 75. But Curtiss was aware of its limitations and launched both improvement (Model 75I/XP-37 and XP42 in 1937 and Model 75P/XP-40 in 1938) and replacement programs (Model 86/XP-46 in Sept 1939 with first flight in Feb 1941). All this effort resulted in anything comparable to their contemporary German opponents.

In 1940 H-75 was inevitably inferior to the Bf 109E. It was the P-46, the intended fighter to confront the Luftwaffe fighters both from design and dates (it suffered development delay)
 
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How about installing the F4F-3/4's R1830-76/86 with two-stage supercharger? (1,040hp @18,400ft)

That represents an increase of +90hp and +4,000ft critical altitude vs. the R1830-23 (S3C3-G) which equipped the fastest Hawks (317mph P-36B or 323mph H75A) and which produced 950hp @ 14,500ft... this increase in critical altitude would be worth +10mph approx. and the increase in hp another +10mph for a total speed increase of ~+20mph so ~340mph.
 
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How about installing the F4F-3/4's R1830-76/86 with two-stage supercharger? (1,040hp @18,400ft)

That represents an increase of +40hp and +3,000ft critical altitude vs. the R1830-17 (S3C3-G) which equipped the fastest Hawks (317mph P-36B or 323mph H75A) and which produced 1,000hp @ 14,500ft... this increase in critical altitude would be worth +10mph approx. and the increase in hp +7mph approx. for a total speed of 335 - 340mph.
The structural weight of naval aircraft is higher due to the stresses during landing. The empty weight of the F4F-3 was 5,342 lb and that of the P-36C was 4,620 lb. The maximum take-off weight of the F4F-3 was 7,002 lb and that of the P-36C was 5,734 lb.
 
Focke Wulf Fw 190V1

Thanks for the picture. However, that is not the V1.

How about installing the F4F-3/4's R1830-76/86 with two-stage supercharger? (1,040hp @18,400ft)

That represents an increase of +40hp and +3,000ft critical altitude vs. the R1830-17 (S3C3-G) which equipped the fastest Hawks (317mph P-36B or 323mph H75A) and which produced 1,000hp @ 14,500ft... this increase in critical altitude would be worth +10mph approx. and the increase in hp +7mph approx. for a total speed of 335 - 340mph.

Fine engine to improve the fortunes of the P-36 - perhaps it would've received it if the V-1710 never materialized - but it might be a tad too late for the fights of 1940. P&W delivered perhaps 100 of these in the whole of 1940, and these were delivered in the second half of that year. Lack of 2-stage supercharged R-1830s forced Grumman to install the 1-stage supercharged R-1830s, and a lot of Wildcats even received the R-1820s (same as the latest P-36s/Mohawks).

American closely-coupled radials seem to have never worked, be it from Curtiss or the other fighters. BMW discarded the 'ducted fan' idea, and the Raiden was plagued with problems due to the vibrations.

IMO - the earlier the 1200 HP 1-stage supercharged R-1830s can be had for the P-36, the better. These engines, like the -33s (a.k.a S3C4-G), were installed on the P-66s, some Bostons/Havocs, and some Martlets, offering 1050 HP at 13100 ft.
Unfortunately, even these engines might be just too late for May/June 1940.

Perhaps clip the wings a bit? I'd avoid the cowl guns installation (strikes me as unrefined and thus too draggy), keep the wing guns with muzzles flush with the leading edge. Better exhaust piping for extra 10+- mph, but unfortunately Americans - and other people - were behind the curve here (perhaps take the idea from the I-16 and refine it?).
 
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Thanks for the picture. However, that is not the V1.



Fine engine to improve the fortunes of the P-36 - perhaps it would've received it if the V-1710 never materialized - but it might be a tad too late for the fights of 1940. P&W delivered perhaps 100 of these in the whole of 1940, and these were delivered in the second half of that year. Lack of 2-stage supercharged R-1830s forced Grumman to install the 1-stage supercharged R-1830s, and a lot of Wildcats even received the R-1820s (same as the latest P-36s/Mohawks).

American closely-coupled radials seem to have never worked, be it from Curtiss or the other fighters. BMW discarded the 'ducted fan' idea, and the Raiden was plagued with problems due to the vibrations.

IMO - the earlier the 1200 HP 1-stage supercharged R-1830s can be had for the P-36, the better. These engines, like the -33s (a.k.a S3C4-G), were installed on the P-66s, some Bostons/Havocs, and some Martlets, offering 1050 HP at 13100 ft.
Unfortunately, even these engines might be just too late for May/June 1940.

Perhaps clip the wings a bit? I'd avoid the cowl guns installation (strikes me as unrefined and thus too draggy), keep the wing guns with muzzles flush with the leading edge. Better exhaust piping for extra 10+- mph, but unfortunately Americans - and other people - were behind the curve here (perhaps take the idea from the I-16 and refine it?).
 

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Lagg-3 to La-5 provides a good template for taking an underpowered inline fighter and turning it into a world beater with a radial.
 

Thanks for the pictures.

Lagg-3 to La-5 provides a good template for taking an underpowered inline fighter and turning it into a world beater with a radial.
Let's not get carried away.
La-5, while certainly a good fighter for the late 1942 to the late 1943, was not providing the 400+- mph turn of speed like the best current German, British or American fighters (it was much slower), firepower was unremarkable, and there was no long range/radius ability, even if the Soviets wanted to increase that by adding drop tanks' facility.

And Kawasaki Ki. 61 turning into Ki.100

Ki 100 was mimicking the firepower and speed of the Spitfire V on the boost settings as allowed by the winter of 1941/42. IOW, a mediocre fighter for 1945.
 
The bigger game changers wouldn't actually come until better theories evolved. A bit of chicken or the egg conundrum.
 
Thanks for the pictures.


Let's not get carried away.
La-5, while certainly a good fighter for the late 1942 to the late 1943, was not providing the 400+- mph turn of speed like the best current German, British or American fighters (it was much slower), firepower was unremarkable, and there was no long range/radius ability, even if the Soviets wanted to increase that by adding drop tanks' facility.



Ki 100 was mimicking the firepower and speed of the Spitfire V on the boost settings as allowed by the winter of 1941/42. IOW, a mediocre fighter for 1945.
The numerous problems experienced with the Ha-40 engine were due mainly to the weak construction of the cylinder block, improperly designed to make it lighter than the heavy Daimler-Benz. Failures also occurred in the operation due to dust and sand from the landing strips and from the poor maintenance conditions in tropical climates. The engineers redesigned the engine as Ha-140 that was somewhat more reliable, being used to propel the Ki.61-II-KAI from April 1944 onwards. Despite its excellent performance in tests, only 374 airframes were made and when the Akashi factory was destroyed in a bombing on 19 January, only ninety-nine Ha-140s were completed, just enough to equip four Sentais.

The situation forced the Kawasaki engineers to consider installing a new Mitsubishi Type 4 Ha-112-II radial engine of 1,500 hp. To achieve its integration into the Ki.61 airframe, they conducted a study of the only Focke-Wulf Fw190 fighter existing in Japan to analyse how the Germans had solved the problem. Surprisingly, as it happened with the Mustang, changing the engine produced an excellent fighter with greater manoeuvrability and climb rate that was also easier to maintain. Named Ki.100-I Type 5, it was used by six Sentais of elite, fighting on equal terms against Hellcats and Corsairs in Okinawa and against Mustangs over Japan.

The best combat altitude for Type 5 was 6,000 m but it was almost useless against the Superfortress at 9,000 m. Some aircraft of the 111th Sentai, assigned to the defence of Osaka, removed the machine guns to save weight, but the head-on attacks carried with two 20 mm cannons only were not destructive enough to achieve results against a B-29 and some aircraft of the Sentai were experimentally fitted with air-to-air Ro.San Dan rockets of 10 cm.

During the night from 14 to 15 April 1945, the B-29s of the 313rd and 314th BW conducted a medium altitude attack against the Kawasaki factory losing eleven aircraft (42-24821, 42-63545, 42-93893, 42-93962 , 42-94034, 44-69673, 44-69834, 44-69871, 44-69882, 44-69907 and 42-24664) one of them rammed by a Ki.100 of the 244th Sentai piloted by Capt. Chuichi Ichikawa.
 

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Post-2
 

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Radial Hurricanes???
By early 1941, several proposals were made for the installation of alternative power plants in the Hawker Hurricane Mk.II to alleviate possible shortages of Merlin XX engines. The Rolls-Royce Griffon IIA, Napier Dagger and Bristol Hercules engines were considered.

Britain had provided the Soviet Union a total of 2,952 Hurricanes and there were strong rumours that at least one of them was powered by one 1,250 hp Shvetsov ASh-82 radial engine and armed with two 20 mm ShVAK cannons and four 0.5 in UBT machine guns.
 

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The numerous problems experienced with the Ha-40 engine were due mainly to the weak construction of the cylinder block, improperly designed to make it lighter than the heavy Daimler-Benz.
Very interesting.
Any source to back up the claim that Ha 40 was designed so it can be lighter than the, supposedly, heavy DB 601A?

Surprisingly, as it happened with the Mustang, changing the engine produced an excellent fighter with greater manoeuvrability and climb rate that was also easier to maintain.

Comparing what Merlin Mustang became vs. it's Allison-powered predecessors with what Ki-100 became vs. the Ki-61 will require a large grain of salt. Make it a truckload of salt.
'Excellent fighter' - by what token?

The best combat altitude for Type 5 was 6,000 m but it was almost useless against the Superfortress at 9,000 m. Some aircraft of the 111th Sentai, assigned to the defence of Osaka, removed the machine guns to save weight, but the head-on attacks carried with two 20 mm cannons only were not destructive enough to achieve results against a B-29 and some aircraft of the Sentai were experimentally fitted with air-to-air Ro.San Dan rockets of 10 cm.

We can only expect that a fighter, whose engine's rated altitude was 6000 m, was almost useless against the fast bombers at 9000m. Add the need to remove good deal of it's firepower in order to perform well at high altitudes, and all the story about the Ki-100 as an excellent fighter looses a lot of it's credit.

Britain had provided the Soviet Union a total of 2,952 Hurricanes and there were strong rumours that at least one of them was powered by one 1,250 hp Shvetsov ASh-82 radial engine and armed with two 20 mm ShVAK cannons and four 0.5 in UBT machine guns.
Very interesting. What/who is source of these rumors?
Hopefully the Soviet people remembered to remove the water cooling system, unlike what the British people did when the Hercules-powered was mooted, as per the posted side elevations.
 
Very interesting.
Any source to back up the claim that Ha 40 was designed so it can be lighter than the, supposedly, heavy DB 601A?



Comparing what Merlin Mustang became vs. it's Allison-powered predecessors with what Ki-100 became vs. the Ki-61 will require a large grain of salt. Make it a truckload of salt.
'Excellent fighter' - by what token?



We can only expect that a fighter, whose engine's rated altitude was 6000 m, was almost useless against the fast bombers at 9000m. Add the need to remove good deal of it's firepower in order to perform well at high altitudes, and all the story about the Ki-100 as an excellent fighter looses a lot of it's credit.


Very interesting. What/who is source of these rumors?
Hopefully the Soviet people remembered to remove the water cooling system, unlike what the British people did when the Hercules-powered was mooted, as per the posted side elevations.
I am sorry to say that my source was a former Spanish Republican pilot who fought in USSR against the Nazis and who died as a result of Covid.



https://karopka.ru/community/user/19238/?MODEL=563165
 

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Does anyone have an opinion on how the Boomerang might have performed if it had been fitted with the two-speed, two stage Twin Wasp that the USN used in the best of its Wildcats in 1942?
A great fighter with this engine could have been the P-36.
Which in my opinion was far superior to the Wildcat.
 

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