Cierva/Weir Prototypes and Projects

[hesham]

Hi,

the well known Cierva/Weir W series of helicopters and autogyros,
the W.7 from Flightglobal and Cierva project.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1946/1946%20-%201154.html?search=helicopter%20project%201946

 

[Maveric]

Hi all,

I´m very interested in the british helicopter projects...
...at first by Cierva: there are many projects (C.14/15/16/22/23/31/32/33/35/36/37/38/39).

...and the projects by WeirW.7/8 and 9.

Servus Maveric

 

[Bailey]

This might be of interest.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1946/1946%20-%201154.html

Regards Bailey.

 

[hesham]

By the way,

the other drawing in the topic may be the Cierva W.8 with a
jet-driven rotor appeared.

 

[hesham]

At first;

who said that,the Cierva W.9 was a project !,it was a two-seat
experimental helicopter actually built for E16/43 Spec.

And the Cierva C.14 was a flying boat Autogyro for the 31/26 Spec.,
and the Shorts Brother who was developed it.

C.31 was a Project of 1934 for a two-seat coupe autogyro with
retractable landing gear and powered by one 385 hp Napier Rapier
IV engine.

C.32 was similar to C.31 but powered by one 200 hp De Havilland DH
Gipsy Six engine,Project.

C.33 (Avro-665) was an Avro Project ,envisaged the combination of a
four-seat Commodore biplane with a three-blade rotor,powered by
one 240 hp Armstrong Siddeley Lynx IVC engine.

C.37 was a twin-engined cabin autogyro,proposed by Avro as the
Type-668.Project.

C.39 was a Project for 2/3 seat fleet spotter autogyro to Spec. 22/38,
this would have had a three-blade rotor and 600 hp Rolls-Royce kestrel engine.

 

[hesham]

The Cierva C.33 and C.37 projects;

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.fildes3/Type%20602%20to%20862

 

[Tophe]

Thanks Hesham, your link gives extra data, especially the date for the C.37 push-pull twin-boom autogyro!

 

[Maveric]

Yes, yes, I´ve found both projects B)

 

[Stargazer]

A Weir design from 1942 found in British patent #563,427:

 

[Stargazer]

Two Weir designs from 1945 related to gas-conveying ducts on rotors:

 

[Stargazer]

Weir patent dated 1945 for two types of gas generators mounted in helicopter fuselages:

 

[hesham]

From l'Aeronautique 1934,


a modified Cierva C.30 with Tampier folded rear landing gear.

 

[hesham]

My dear Jemiba,


here is a patent for Cierva,but we can't distinguish between real design and a patent.


http://www.luftfahrt-bibliothek.de/zeitschrift-flugsport-oskar-ursinus-luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr/luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr-flugsport-1942/zeitschrift-flugsport-1942-luftsport-luftverkehr-luftfahrt.htm

 

[Jemiba]

... we can't distinguish between real design and a patent

Actually it's neither ! It's an article about several helicopter types, or better
different rotor layouits.

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Jemiba.

 

[Cy-27]

Strangely enough, I am in the middle of listing brief descriptions of the Weir types for designations section of the forum!

I can recommend The Sycamore Seeds - Early British Helicopter Development by Charles E MacKay (ISBN 978-0-9573443-3-4). It may be a small size book (with small size images) but it traces helicopter development from the Autogyro's to the 1950's helicopters. It also keeps track of contemporary foreign offering from the US and Germany during the 1930's and 1940's.

Attached are some poor scans of the Weir types W.7, W.8 and W9 requested by Maveric. The book is tight bound and I am reluctant to bend the spine too much!

PS The W.9 is also in Wikipedia under the Cierva W9 page .... Weir bought out the name after Juan de la Cierva's death and the types thereafter were often referred to as Weir-Cierva, Cierva-Weir...and Cierva!

 

[Winston]

On ebay.fr I found images of the Cierva C.4 and C.6. Hopefully this is the right category.

 

[hesham]

Nice work my dear Cy-27.

 

[hesham]

A Weir design from 1942 found in British patent #563,427:

Hi,

http://kulturserver-nds.de/home/hubtest/medien/Typenkartei3953xGUN7x9T3Z7.pdf

 

[Schneiderman]

Better to go back to the original illustration.

G & J Weir took out many patents in association with their chief engineer/designer Cyril George Pullin. Most related to aspects of power and control of helicopters, including 563427 which was a form of torque control using ducted jets. Another was 5724127 for a 'fenestron', and 556865 which for a torqueless rotor powered by tip jets.

 

[hesham]

Nice find Schneiderman.

 

[Schneiderman]

In 1943 the Weir W9 was designed along the lines of the drawings in patent GB563472.
Powered by a Gipsy VI it was estimated to have a top speed of 150mph and cruising speed of 110mph (very, very, optimistic) with sufficient fuel for 4 hours at cruising speed. It would have an all-up weight of 2000lbs loaded; pilot, passenger and fuel. It was to 29ft long, 10ft wide with a rotor 36ft in diameter.


These scans did not come out well so I will redo them when I get a chance

 

[hesham]

Brilliant,thank you my dear Schneiderman.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a W-4,and the other one I can't ID it.

http://kulturserver-nds.de/home/hubtest/medien/Typenkartei3953xGUN7x9T3Z7.pdf

 

[Apophenia]

... the other one I can't ID it.

Cy-27 listed one "project derived from the remains of the W.4 by C.G.Pullin which got no further than the mock-up stage" and "C.G.Pullin, Weir's chief designer, first thought of converting the W.4 autogyro into a helicopter by using two co-axial rotors". That would fit for your "Rotorplane".

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/weir-autogyro-and-helicopter-designations.25130/#post-255665

As a coaxial design, Cyril Pullin would have been able to ditch the W.4's tractor propeller. Perhaps the coaxial rotors also explain the simplified tail surfaces. The cowling looks odd. That may just be showing the W.4's Weir Pixie engine turned back-to-front to drive the rotors. Or did Pullin intend to design a new, more powerful engine for his coaxial rotor machine?

 

[hesham]

Hi,

maybe this was Cierva C.41 patent;

http://www.google.com/patents?id=Ic...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA

Stingray's Rotorcraft Forum

Discussion forum about helicopters and other rotorcraft - a part of the world's largest rotorcraft archive, "Stingray's List of Rotorcraft"

stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com

 

[Schneiderman]

Well, not a Cierva patent so probably not. It was taken out by James Bennett who had worked for Cierva in the mid 1930s and held many patents in partnership with the company. Design is similar to projects he developed with Fairey after the war.

 

[Motocar]

Cutaway Cierva C.6, author Aviagraphica and modified by Motocar

 

[Schneiderman]

One C.30 was tested with floats. It proved to be unstable laterally.
Someone on Britmodeller was looking for information on the floats

Avro Rota / Cierva C.30 Autogiro Floatplane

Hopefully one that can be answered by the seaplane experts. Back in 1935 Cierva conducted trials with Avro Rota K4296 fitted with twin floats. Peter Brooks book ‘Cierva Autogiros’ describes these as ‘Short S.61 type floats’. I quite fancy giving this one a go. Basically does anyone out there know...

www.britmodeller.com

I'm not a member so will put this drawing here, hopefully someone can pass it on. (taken from the R&M assessing the causes of the instability)

 

[hesham]

C.39 was a Project for 2/3 seat fleet spotter autogyro to Spec. 22/38,
this would have had a three-blade rotor and 600 hp Rolls-Royce kestrel engine.

From, Helicopters & Autogyros of the World.

 

[hesham]

And the Cierva C.14 was a flying boat Autogyro for the 31/26 Spec.,
and the Shorts Brother who was developed it.

From, Helicopters & Autogyros of the World.

 

[lol90oo]

And the Cierva C.14 was a flying boat Autogyro for the 31/26 Spec.,
and the Shorts Brother who was developed it.

From, Helicopters & Autogyros of the World.

hi i have a question do you have illustrations or images of the c.14?

 

[hesham]

And the Cierva C.14 was a flying boat Autogyro for the 31/26 Spec.,
and the Shorts Brother who was developed it.

From, Helicopters & Autogyros of the World.

hi i have a question do you have illustrations or images of the c.14?

Sorry dear Lol,I haven't,but may it was the same concept in Cierva Amphibian speculative design,here;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/amphibian-autogiro.3922/

 

[lol90oo]

And the Cierva C.14 was a flying boat Autogyro for the 31/26 Spec.,
and the Shorts Brother who was developed it.

From, Helicopters & Autogyros of the World.

hi i have a question do you have illustrations or images of the c.14?

Sorry dear Lol,I haven't,but may it was the same concept in Cierva Amphibian speculative design,here;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/amphibian-autogiro.3922/

thanks

 

[nuuumannn]

It's worth noting the relationship between Weir and Cierva, the former, 'Jimmy' Weir was a Scottish industrialist (Weir Pumps of Cathcart, Glasgow) who was chief financier of Cierva's Southampton-based autogyro company. The Weir W-2 in Scotland.

 

[Schneiderman]

It's worth noting the relationship between Weir and Cierva, the former, 'Jimmy' Weir was a Scottish industrialist (Weir Pumps of Cathcart, Glasgow) who was chief financier of Cierva's Southampton-based autogyro company. The Weir W-2 in Scotland.

Useful research paper on that subject here

http://eprints.gla.ac.uk/4973/1/4973.pdf

 

[hesham]

From Aeroplane 1944.

 

[Stargazer]

I don't think I ever shared this one, so here goes:

 

[Avimimus]

I don't think I ever shared this one, so here goes:

Thanks! It is great to be able to compare them at a glance.

 

[Toryu]

I have never seen a drawing-plan of the C-7.