Chinese high-speed rotorcraft projects

[Deino]

Just found from the Zhuhai Airshow ... seems as if the Chinese have at least similar model/concepts on the drawing board !

 

[Triton]

Interesting to see another manufacturer pursuing compound helicopters.

 

[yasotay]

Then there is the disk rotor compound to the rear of the larger model.
Anyone have more information on any of this?
Seems everyone is joining the compound rotorcraft effort.

Still the more I look at this the more I think it is not much more than a "we to are thinking about the future" concept. There is a LOT of aero-engineering that goes into coax-compound and all of the dynamic components. I do not mean to denegrate the Chinese aero-industry but that is a BIG step.

 

[Deino]

Two more projects ...

 

[Triton]

Model of AVICopter "Avant-Courier" compound helicopter concept on display at Airshow China (China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition) 2012 in Zhuhai, Guangdong.

Source:
http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2012/11/chinese-z-x-experimental-compound.html

 

[Triton]

Source:
http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2012/11/chinese-z-x-experimental-compound.html

 

[Hanse]

Apparently they have no shame. They've got rip-offs of just about all the designs currently being tested in the west. Surprised there's no Chinese Heliplane. Oh well.

 

[Triton]

Apparently they have no shame. They've got rip-offs of just about all the designs currently being tested in the west. Surprised there's no Chinese Heliplane. Oh well.

Is it an indication that AVICopter is confident that the United States, Russia, or Europe are going to deploy compound rotorcraft?

 

[Hanse]

Apparently they have no shame. They've got rip-offs of just about all the designs currently being tested in the west. Surprised there's no Chinese Heliplane. Oh well.

Is it an indication that AVICopter is confident that the United States, Russia, or Europe are going to deploy compound rotorcraft?

I wouldn't be surprised. They effectively have directly lines into the major design houses.

 

[chuck4]

They have every reason to be proud of being able to find and exploit expedient path to get to the state of the art the fastest, particularly defence technology. They are doing what countries are supposed to do.

 

[VH]

And that is to steal other people's IP?

 

[Hanse]

They have every reason to be proud of being able to find and exploit expedient path to get to the state of the art the fastest, particularly defence technology. They are doing what countries are supposed to do.

By that rational the cheater should be "proud" of the "A" they got in class too right?

 

[Avimimus]

And that is to steal other people's IP?

That is how industries and technologies progress - a mixture of R&D with existing accumulations of knowledge.

Historically anyway...

 

[Sundog]

I don't understand the coaxial rotor with the dual thrusters on each side. It seems a bit of overkill/excess complexity to me. Putting the X-2 and X3 together doesn't make an X8.

 

[yasotay]

I don't understand the coaxial rotor with the dual thrusters on each side. It seems a bit of overkill/excess complexity to me. Putting the X-2 and X3 together doesn't make an X8.

Hedging their bet with a X-23.

 

[Triton]

Can someone translate the text from the "Avant Garde" and "Platypus" displays?

 

[Hanse]

I don't understand the coaxial rotor with the dual thrusters on each side. It seems a bit of overkill/excess complexity to me. Putting the X-2 and X3 together doesn't make an X8.

Hedging their bet with a X-23.

They should have made the side props tilt as well and had a Tilt-X-23

 

[chuck4]

And that is to steal other people's IP?

No one will let cut you any slack in a war just because you fought with inferior technology out of concern for other people IP.

 

[chuck4]

They have every reason to be proud of being able to find and exploit expedient path to get to the state of the art the fastest, particularly defence technology. They are doing what countries are supposed to do.

By that rational the cheater should be "proud" of the "A" they got in class too right?

The rational of class room doesn't apply to contests where penalty for not getting an "A" is defeat and death.

 

[Triton]

I don't understand the coaxial rotor with the dual thrusters on each side. It seems a bit of overkill/excess complexity to me. Putting the X-2 and X3 together doesn't make an X8.

The Sikorsky X2 heavy-lift concepts had two tractor propellers rather than a pusher prop. I would guess that the AVICopter "Avante-Courier" is a heavy-lift concept.

 

[chuck4]

Is the complexity of coaxial hub suitable for heavy lift?

Why coaxial at all? Why not just counter the torque of of the rotor by varying the pitch and power of the two outboard tractor props?

 

[flateric]

Contra-rotating rigid coaxial main rotors
The rotor configuration meant that the retreating blades are offloaded, with most of the load supported by the advancing blades of the other rotor and any penalty imposed by the stall of the retreating blade thus "cancelled out".

 

[Sundog]

The Sikorsky X2 heavy-lift concepts had two tractor propellers rather than a pusher prop. I would guess that the AVICopter "Avante-Courier" is a heavy-lift concept.

OK, that makes sense. I hadn't considered that and for that much more mass, it would make sense to have two thrust props, as opposed to one large one. They probably would also make a larger mass more responsive in yaw in the hover with the differential thrust as opposed to the differential rotor RPM.

 

[boxkite]

Vertiflite issue of July/August 2014 is telling something about HeliRussia 2014 "talks have also progressed with Avicopter for a new heavy lift helicopter with nearly twice the load capacity of the Mi-26" (page 8). Is it one of the display models shown here in the thread or is it a totally new and different design?

 

[totoro]

why would anyone want twice the load of mi26 when even mi26 isntused in big numbers aroiund the world. i still suspect someone made an error somewhere. makes more sense for both russia and china to go with helicopter smaller than mi26. perhaps half the load of mi26? 23 ton helo carrying 10ish tons of cargo would fit much better for both parties.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://archive.aviationweek.com/issue/20130916#!&pid=42

 

[yasotay]

In the November/December2015 issue of Vertiflight Magazine one of the more astute and well regarded rotorcraft writers has a picture of the K800 Jueying model in flight (pg. 14) B)

 

[Triton]

Model of high-speed rotorcraft concept on display at China Helicopter Expo 2017.

1. Max take-off weight: 5500 kg
2. Effective load: 700 kg or 7 passengers
3. Max cruising speed: >400 km/h
4. Ferry range (?): 1100 km
5. Range with max load: 650 km

Source:
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/china-helicopter-expo-2017.t8171/
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/china-helicopter-expo-2017.t8171/page-2

 

[Triton]

Source:
http://indiandefence.com/threads/chinese-military-helicopters.57238/page-3#post-594353

 

[yasotay]

China is on target to surpass Russia as the world leader in most cool aircraft models. B)

Seriously that is an awful lot of weight out there on the end of those wings. Fun with flutter me thinks. I will defer to those with more aero-engineering than I.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Chinese Z-X Experimental Compound Helicopter with Coaxial Rotors

Chinese Z-X Experimental Compound Helicopter with Coaxial Rotors

chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com

 

[Deino]

By the way ... any more info on this one?

China’s new military helicopter with innovative design makes 1st flight - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

via

https://twitter.com/x/status/1511332838200815630

View: https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1511332838200815630


Is this the relevant announcement?

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/JVBiDpGNai52Q45gAXafWQc

 

[yasotay]

China Designing New ‘Future Helicopter’ | Aviation Week Network

Wu Ximing, designer of the CAIC Z-10 attack helicopter, has commented on development of a new rotorcraft as China increases its defense budget.

aviationweek.com

Behind the AWIN firewall, but, anyone take a guess at what sort of rotorcraft is being worked on? Given China's past "best business practices" I am going to guess either a coaxial compound (X2) or a winged compound (Racer).

 

[yasotay]

@Deino - I noted today that China now has a patent for a tilt rotor systems with a horizontal engine and pivoting transmission and rotor head. With the decision by the U.S. Army to move forward with a tilt rotor replacement for the Blackhawk, do you think China would move forward with their own program, or stay with a coaxial compound?