Chinese Aircraft: China's Aviation industry since 1951

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Written by Yefim Gordon and Dimitriy Kommissarov.

http://www.afe.vispahost.com/product_info.php?cPath=13&products_id=338&osCsid=7v7r8phlbqnvk6v4oqqons0up7

Available Oct 2008

Shrouded in secrecy, output from the Chinese aviation industry was, until recently, largely unknown in the West.

In the 1950’s, when communist China and the Soviet Union were on friendly terms the Soviet Union assisted in the setting up of the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) by delivering combat aircraft and training Chinese personnel.

Following the 1960’s rift between Moscow and Beijing, the Chinese authorities set up an indigenous aircraft industry and as they gained experience, versions of Soviet aircraft started appearing together with their own designs.

Chinese Aircraft provides a full description of all aircraft types including, amongst others, the Shaanxi Y8, the Chengdu JF-17 (FC-1) light fighter which is now entering service with the Pakistan Air Force, the Shenyang J-10 and the KJ-2000 AWACS aircraft based on the Il'yushin IL-76. It also details the factories and design institutions representing the industry over the years including, Chengdu, Guizhou, Shenyang, Xian and Chiange and compares early and late designs to show how those organisations developed.

A special section deals with experimental types and the latest research and development whilst further sections are devoted to aircraft weapons, unmanned aerial vehicles and Chinese aircraft exports on a country by country basis.

For the first time, numerous colour profiles and three view drawings are illustrated together with logos of the production enterprises and design institutions to form a comprehensive guide to Chinese aircraft and China’s aviation industry.

 

[amsci99]

Worth a review, especially on the extent of coverage on the earlier projects like the DF-103 and DF-104 and the latter Q-6.

 

[roberto_yeager]

I want it!!!!! I need it!!!!

I can´t wait so much!!!!


1Saludo

PD: Sorry.. :-\

 

[Antonio]

I need it too!!!!. I have been waiting for years to have a guide on Chinese Aerospace designs...Thanks a lot Yefim and Dimitriy


the next wish to be fulfilled is "US Bomber Secret Projects 1920-2008" :

 

[Deino]

Let's wait and see if it’s truly the first complete review on that topic after "China Today - Aviation Industry" from 1989.

But sadly they don't accept MasterCard !! :'(

Cheers, Deino

 

[Thorvic]

Let's wait and see if it’s truly the first complete review on that topic after "China Today - Aviation Industry" from 1989.

But sadly they don't accept MasterCard !! :'(

Cheers, Deino

It OK Deino

Its listed at Amazon as well ;D

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chinese-Aircraft-Aviation-Industry-1951-2007/dp/190210904X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214418461&sr=8-1

Cheers

Geoff

 

[TinWing]

Let's wait and see if it’s truly the first complete review on that topic after "China Today - Aviation Industry" from 1989.

I would say you are in a unique position to eventually offer a definitive review of the book. After all, you seem to be the definitive Western source on Chinese military aviation.

 

[SOC]

They need to fix the description...or has Shenyang secretly been building the J-10?

 

[Deino]

Hmmm ... there was once a still secret interceptor from SAC numbered J-10 ... but by reading the short description beginning with newer tyes like the JF-17, KJ-2000 and the J-10 I think it's a mistake !

I would say you are in a unique position to eventually offer a definitive review of the book. After all, you seem to be the definitive Western source on Chinese military aviation.

Thanks a lot for that compliment and if You like I will try such a review .... besides that Tony and my articles we once planned on that topic will follow in the IAPR (actually the JH-7 wil be the Focus aircraft in Vol. 26)

Deino

 

[Deino]

Maybe another interesting book on the same topic but for the time before Y.G.'s book !

http://www.aviationmegastore.com/?shopid=LM48b86788a78e164cc307d7c174&action=prodinfo&parent_id=0&art=80619

A HISTORY OF CHINESE AVIATION is a detailed study of aviation in China. More than 400 different types of aircraft from many of the world's aircraft manufacturing countries were used in China during the period before 1949! In addition a number of types were developed and produced inside China. Chinese aviation was in fact much more extensive and diversified than has previously been generally understood.
The main scope of the book is aircraft and aviation in China during the period prior to 1937. Chinese Air Force operations, especially during the war with Japan, have been treated elsewhere and are normally not detailed here. For the 1937-1949 period the focus is mainly on aircraft acquisition, organization and the general development of aviation in China.
All the provincial air forces, the air force of the Central Government and the naval aviation service, the airline companies and aircraft factories are described in detail, as are all the aircraft that flew in China, from the Aeromarine 39B and Aichi AB-3 to the White PT-7 and Yakovlev UT-2. There are more than 350 photos, numerous maps, aircraft inventory lists and tables, and several pages of colour profiles. A special chapter deals with aircraft markings and national insignia and there are tables with aircraft registrations.
The book is based mainly on original American, British, French, German and Russian archive documents, as well as long forgotten contemporary newspapers, magazines and other sources.
CHINESE AVIATION is the result of many years of research and contains a wealth of previously unknown information about aviation in China.

Cheers, Deino

 

[Deino]

Just to ask ... has anyone already received this book !! ???

I pre-ordered mine at amazon.co.uk, with this info reagrding delivery:

Dispatch estimate: 30 Oct 2008
Delivery estimate: 4 Nov 2008 - 10 Nov 2008


But now they say: "Temporarily out of stock"

So is it already out and actually "out of stock" ... or will mine sent only that later date?

Can't wait any longer .......

Cheers, Deino :-[

 

[boxkite]

Moved from another topic to the right one

I've asked the author:

"No, the MiG OKB book is not published yet. I think it will be published in February 2009."

Ohh ... You are in contact with Mr. Gordon ?? ???

... Any info when the book on Chinese Aviation Industry comes out ??

Deino

In the words of Yefim Gordon:

The Chinese book is published yet (by Crecy) but the selling will
start in a few days (I hope so).

 

[Deino]

And I just received that mail ... :-[

Dear Customer,

We wanted to give you an update on the status of your order #026-8330220-2489963.

We are sorry to report that the following items have been delayed:

Yefim Gordon (Author), Dmitrii Komissarov (Author) "Chinese
Aircraft: History of China's Aviation Industry 1951-2007" [Hardcover]
Estimated arrival date: 04/12/08 - 18/12/08

We are sorry for any inconvenience this causes.

Deino

 

[robunos]

received my email from amazon over the weekend:-

We now have the delivery date(s) for the order you placed on 31 October 2008, 01:35 MET(Order# XXXXXXXXXXXXXX). We have listed the item(s) below with the expected delivery date(s): Yefim Gordon, Dmitrii Komissarov "Chinese Aircraft: History of China's Aviation Industry 1951-2007" [Hardcover]Estimated arrival date: 26/03/09 - 28/03/09

:'( :-\ ???

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Antonio]

It will be a long wait :'(

 

[Deino]

received my email from amazon over the weekend:-

We now have the delivery date(s) for the order you placed on 31 October 2008, 01:35 MET(Order# XXXXXXXXXXXXXX). We have listed the item(s) below with the expected delivery date(s): Yefim Gordon, Dmitrii Komissarov "Chinese Aircraft: History of China's Aviation Industry 1951-2007" [Hardcover]Estimated arrival date: 26/03/09 - 28/03/09

:'( :-\ ???

cheers,
Robin.

Where did You order ?? ... I ordered mmine at amazon.co.uk but they still say Estimated arrival date: 04/12/08 - 18/12/08

 

[robunos]

i ordered from amazon.co.uk too... but i also ordered 'OKB Mikoyan' as well, on a double order, maybe that's why. just have to wait and see...

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Deino]

Possibly it is already available here:

http://www.aviation-bookshop.com/asp/releases.asp

Does anyone have some better information ?

Cheers and very curious,
Deino

 

[Hood]

According to Waterstones UK it was published 30/09/08 and their flagship Picadilly branch has one in stock apparently...

 

[SOC]

Should be able to order it here sometime this month:

http://www.specialtypress.com/vstore/showdetl.cfm?DID=8&Product_ID=1839&CATID=1

 

[collins355]

According to Waterstones UK it was published 30/09/08 and their flagship Picadilly branch has one in stock apparently...

Went to Waterstones Picadilly today and they told me they had none, but that Hatchards just down the road had two. Will go there at next opportunity as had to get back to work.

 

[Deino]

Went to Waterstones Picadilly today and they told me they had none, but that Hatchards just down the road had two. Will go there at next opportunity as had to get back to work.

Any news ?? ... at least my Credit Card was charged four days ago ... hopefully it will arrive soon.

At Amazon.co.uk is a review written by Ernie Lee from Model Aircraft Monthly

Model Aircraft Monthly - Jan 2009
This is Crécy's latest book under the Hikoki label and what a book it is! As far as I am aware this is the first book published in English covering this subject - certainly in such depth.
Sorting out Soviet aircraft designations has always been difficult, as they always seem to have two, but this is nothing compared with the Chinese! Having no indigenously designed aircraft, they purchased machines from the Soviet Union and then built them under licence with their own designation. But then they started to modify them, thus producing aircraft unique to them and, eventually wholly, Chinese designs.

After a chapter chronicling the Chinese aircraft industry we move to the first section dealing with the actual aircraft, in this case 'Fighters'. Each individual variant of each aircraft is explained. The first machine the Chinese decided to build under licence was the MiG-15 but this was abandoned and they only produced the MiG-15UTI, designated Shenyang JJ-2.

Ffollowing this was the MiG-17 and so started the modification process. One such machine that was not adopted was the Shenjang J-5 (MiG-17F) Torpedo Bomber, which must have been quite a sight. Then followed the later Soviet fighters - MiG-19 and MiG-21, all modified for Chinese needs. Alltogether there are seventeen machines described, some single types, others in a series. For instance the J-7 (MiG-21) section contains pages of side-view line drawings illustrating no less than twenty-one variants.

It goes without saying that the text is supported with masses of colour photographs and colour profiles. I could spend a lot longer on this section but after mentioning the fully described J-10 family of indigenousness fighters that concludes this chapter, I must move on.

The next section is entitled 'Bombers'. Again we start with imports and the well-known conversions of the Tu-4 (B-29). Refitted with WJ-6 Turbo-props and converted to carry reconnaissance drones it changed its appearance but not as much as installing the dish. We then move on to the Zian H-6 (Tu-16). Again it was modified for Chinese needs. Another interesting conversion was the Qing-6, which was a re-engined Beriyev Be-6, followed by the mighty Harbin SH-5 Bomber/ASW flying boat.

The following categories are 'Strike Aircraft', then `Trainers', `Airliners' and `Transports'. Again, containing many fascinating subjes. For instance, there is the Shaanxi Y-8 family of four-engined transports, an aircraft with eighteen derivatives illustrated.

Chapter 7 covers `Special Mission Aircraft' and it includes details of the Xian KJ-2000 with its AEW dish - a real showstopper. There are then chapters on `Light Utility Aircraft', `Helicopters' and even `UAV's.

This book is magnificent, it is one of the most comprehensive I have ever had the pleasure of reading. With over 650 photographs, over 100 side-view drawings and at least 110 colour profiles it must be a best seller and is a book that I heartily recommend.

Ernie Lee
Thanks to Crécy Publishing for the review copy

Currently this is the most interesting sentence: ... fully described J-10 family of indigenousness fighters ... because as far as I know the J-10 from Shenyang was planed as a huge fighter and a lot suggests that several configurations were under consideration (VG and delta ...) Maybe he actually dig something really new out.


Cheers, Deino

 

[Deino]

Just received a mail from Tony Buttler, who was at IPMS Telford on Saturday and saw Yefim Gordon:

....
Yefim was doing a signing session. It is very good and beautifully produced, but it really presents a history of China's aircraft industry overall, and there are no projects that I could see (bar one or two tunnel models). I think Yefim was asked to do it in a bit of a rush - had he been given more time it might have been quite different. That said, I suspect there is a lot of new information in it - and it appears to be pretty good value.
...

Cheers, Deino

 

[Deino]

Finally received my copy ... and my first impression is ;D ... its a very, very comprehensive look thru all mayor Chinese aviation projects with lots of photographs (most of them well known to the www-observers !), nice side profiles, and colour profiles and text.
But .... on a first glimpse (about 5 min of look-thru) there are several grave mistakes like “strangely” shaped noses on the J-8II’s ... once again some errors on the J-7 projects (including again fan-art) and photoshoped pictures like a J-10 prototype with conformal tanks, 4 LGB’s and a target-designator pod.

Anyway I’m impressed and satisfied with the first impressions and I will post a much more comprehensive review (much) later ...

Deino

 

[robunos]

today received the email from amazon informing that it's been despatched, yay...

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Deino]

today received the email from amazon informing that it's been despatched, yay...

cheers,
Robin.

Hi Robin ... did You get Your copy already ?? ... I would be interested in Your opinion on that book, as I’m no longer that amazed.

Hmmm ... I’m no longer that amazed. :-\

IMO it is still the most comprehensive compendium on that topic in the West but there are several grave mistakes like “strangely” shaped noses on the J-8II and J-10 profiles (look like a printing error as every second one is misshaped) ... the MiG-15 is still called J-2, once again some errors on the J-7 projects (including the fan-art F-7X) and photoshoped pictures like a J-10 prototype with conformal tanks, 4 LGB’s and a target-designator pod and another one with chin-mounted PL-12’s.

But the biggest disappointment is the lack of any news on any project (hardly surprising !) and that strange feeling that several parts on the introduction and the J-9 text are very familiar to a translations of Tony and my FliegerRevue-extra texts.
He even goes that far that "suggestions" or "assumptions" I made were simply taken as granted (like the Su-15Sh which fits quite nicely to the JH-8’s description … I only suggested that as a possibility).
Otherwise I never heard that anyone – Chinese side or IAI – admitted that the Lavi’s documents were transferred to CAC.

Also the promised “fully described J-10 family of indigenousness fighters” is nothing more than the regular CAC J-10 with a two-page complement of colour-profiles … some of them wrong as said and with the mistake of taking a photoshopped PLA-NA machine too seriously. (The IAPR article is much longer, much more comprehensive and IMO JP’s profiles are much more detailed)


Anyway I’m still impressed it as a reference for lesser known types (UAV, ... ) but a lot has to be taken with a grain of salt.
So long,
Deino


If someone is interested in a list of the biggest mistakes ... just give me a note !

 

[robunos]

Just received it this morning,have had a couple of half hours for some brief study.
Let me start by saying, that my knowledge of chinese aircraft is unfortunatly virtually non-existant, which is why i bought this book, hoping it would be a sort of 'putnam's Chinese', as it were. Therefore, i cannot really comment on any errors, etc. in the editorial matter of the book.
First impressions, nice thick book, good quality paper and binding, lots of colour, style is the same as the 'OKB...' series of books, by the same authors.
Major (for me) gripe, while the line profiles of the different variants are good, and fairly plentiful, they are _profiles_ only, no 3-views to go with them! ( i would really have liked a 3-view of the J-12)
I know that they are available elsewhere, but i do like my 3-views.
Regarding the 'strange noses', this is almost certainly a production issue, though for me, it's not _that_important, as long as the line-drawn profiles are accurate.
Again, scope is wide, so depth is necessarilly limited, and i think there are too many of those civilian projects, you know, the ones that produce loads of CGI images, and powerpoint presentations, but no actual aircraft. I also would have liked some information on chinese sailplanes, if there is/are any. Likewise, the absence of projects is not too major for me, as most of the types shown are 'secret projects' to me personally.
As for the photoshopped images, then I agree, they should be pointed out as such, sloppy editing.
On the whole, though, for me at least, it fills a large gap in my knowledge, and will serve as a useful starting point for further purchases, so Deino, in addition to your list of errors and mistakes, may I ask for list of the issues of IAPR, that your articles appear in?

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Antonio]

Deino,

thanks for the info. I've cancelled my order at Amazon immediately. Fortunately it was not too late. I'll wait for your articles in International Air Power Review and for a future and much revised second edition of "China's Aviation Industry since 1951" ;D

Antonio

 

[TZAR BOMB]

Please I would like to know the following: is there any kind of description/detail regarding the avionics suite carried by some of the aircraft covered in the book? Thanks in advance...

 

[ysi_maniac]

I have just received my copy and just perused: WONDERFUL :

Some projects I had no idea before, lots of colour photos, line draw profiles. No 3 view

Love it bttb.

 

[Deino]

I have just received my copy and just perused: WONDERFUL :

Some projects I had no idea before, lots of colour photos, line draw profiles. No 3 view

Love it bttb.

Yes ... I love it too ;D ... but if You are interested in some projects You "had no idea before, lots of colour photos, line draw profiles" ... then wait for (hopefully) one of the next IAPR issues or at lesta until then here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1641.60.html


By the way here's the list I promised to do of the most severe / grave mistakes and errors in the fighter-chapters of this altogether quite valuable book:


- p. 16 not WS-10A but a Pratt & Whitney F100
- p. 23 J-2 = MiG-15bis WRONG: J-2 is a wrong number used in the West … strangely JJ-2 maybe correct as a follow on number to the Shenyang JJ-1
- p. 36 J-6C is also a wrong western designation; in China J-6Bing with the ASCI-code Farmer-C so it became J-6C
- p. 47 DF-104/-107: latest reports say that the small table model is in fact the DF-104 (= the small F-5-look alike) and the DF-107 is always described as a larger developed, twin engined version of the 104 with variable-incidence wing … DF-107A was later a redesigned proposal to rescue it from cancellation
- p. 55 picture is just a model of the F-7P and not the prototype
- p. 57 there is no JZ-7 recce-version
- p. 59ff in all profiles and side drawings following the J-7D the wider upper part of the rudder is missing
- p. 64 F-7X is a FAKED what if made by LEGO (an almost famous CG-artist between 2000-2002)
- p. 65 picture and profile of “blue” J-7G is wrong and only because of a very dark picture which has been altered / changed colors to show more details … so the grey looks bluish
- p. 65/66 red Olympic J-7Gb is a FAKE
- p. 69 (printing errors in the J-7G 3-side
- p. 86/87 some J-8II’s profiles with strangely shaped noses (printing errors ??)
- p. 88/89 beautiful side drawings but only the F and H versions do have these “stripes” on the radome, the D and B-02 not, but C has … some EW-details missing between the versions
- p. 96 Text: “officially admitted” a transfer of the Lavi-documents to CAC ??? … only a rumor in a Russian forum
- p. 96 not no. 02 prototype but one of the early pre-serials
- p. 97 FAKED / PSed picture of no. 1004 or 1005 (not sure) to 1001 with CFT’s, LGB’s, target designator …
- p. 100 side drawings … all the different tails and engine details are missing or wrong
- p. 101 several mistakes: FAKED / PSed picture of a pre-serial with 4 PL-12 (two on chin-intake pylons) … later PL-9 is wrong, it’s a PL-8 training round
- p. 102/103 bottom: no. 27 naval machine is based on a CG made by “Songbird” … which itself is based on a PSed picture … otherwise the grays are too different / too dark for no. 13
- p. 105 J-11/ Su-27 + Flanker … nearly nothing !
- p. 108 FC-1 has not the KLJ-10 but the KLJ-7 radar

… have to take a look to the Q-5 attackers later …

- p. 172 JH-7A no. 21092 is not 18. Division but 28. with old numbers
- p. 185 JL-9 has a new wing and not the J-7E’s
- p. 188 L-15 single seater is WRONG … it’s a cockpit diagram of EADS’s MAKO
- p. 224/228 Y-8 radar testbed … it’s not the J-10’s radar but the J-11B’s and gun-ship Y-8 is based on FAN-Art
- p. 227/229 Y-8AF ASW-version is a geographic survey ac from the Chinese geological institute, whereas Y-9 ASW with IFR-probe (albeit nice) is not even mentioned in the text and not reported so far … but maybe probable !

… for all others I have to look later ...

So long with all the best for 2009,

Deino

 

[Deino]

Mr Gordon anounced his next work on that topic:

http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Air-Power-Organisation-Aircraft/dp/1857803213/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255146689&sr=1-2


Chinese Air Power: Current Organisation and Aircraft of All Chinese Air Forces

Product Description
Although China has been a significant air power for more than 50 years very little has been published or even known about its capabilities. Along with the recent emergence of China as a world economic and military superpower, China has recently invested huge sums of money in modernising its air force, developing its own aircraft and technology as well as buying from overseas. This new book unveils for the very first time in English, the full details of the organisation, capabilities and aircraft of all Chinese air forces - the third largest in the world today. This remarkable new book details the Chinese Air Force's order of battle, starting with the top command and down to the operational regiments and squadrons. It also includes descriptions and specifications of the Air Force's and the Navy's main fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft - combat aircraft, transports and special-mission aircraft (reconnaissance, electronic warfare etc.) Details of the missile and bomb armament carried by Chinese combat aircraft today are revealed, with day-to-day operations, air bases and test and research establishments also covered. Packed with a wealth of colour photos and illustrated by maps, charts, line drawings and data tables, readers will also delight in photographs of branch and unit insignia from the top level to the squadron badges of individual units. Colour side views of aircraft currently in service will be invaluable to modellers. This is one not be missed!

Product Details
Hardcover: 336 pages
Publisher: Midland Publishing (July 1, 2010)
ISBN-10: 1857803213
ISBN-13: 978-1857803211

So let's wait and see what he found out ...

Deino

 

[Antonio]

Added to my list and we will see

 

[Deino]

Mr Gordon announced his next work on that topic:

http://www.amazon.com//dp/1857803213/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255146689&sr=1-2

...

Any news on this book ...


It seems to have a had several changes in publishing dates: when pre-ordered it, it was to be July, then it was changed to May 3, May 10, May 20 ... and now June 3, 2010 ... however in the latest issue of Combat Aircraft it is announced as "available" !?? ???

 

[Deino]

... and now this:

Unfortunately, the release date for the item(s) listed below was changed by the supplier, and we need to provide you with a new estimated delivery date based on the new release date:

Yefim Gordon "Chinese Air Power: Current Organisation and Aircraft of All Chinese Air Forces"
Estimated arrival date: June 15 2010 - June 16 2010

Has anyone an idea why these repeated delays or postponing ?? ???

Deino

 

[Deino]

Again ... does anyone knows WHY ?? ???

We regret to inform you that the following items have been delayed as we are still awaiting stock from our suppliers :

Yefim Gordon "Chinese Air Power: Current Organisation and Aircraft of All Chinese Air Forces"
Estimated arrival date: June 24 2010 - June 30 2010

Deino

 

[Deino]

Reportedly now in stock !!!

So far I haven't received my copy and therefore I simply wanted to know if anyone else got his hand on that (most likely standard reference on the PLAAF in the West for many years to come) ?

Cheers, Deino

 

[zanenobbs]

Hi,

I ordered this book from Amazon.com last September and had it within a week. It is still available in new and used conditions.

Best of luck!

Zane

 

[Deino]

Hi Zane ... THANKs a lot but in the meantime I already received my copy and for all, who are interested, here's "my" review:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10287.0.html

Cheers,
Deino