China's Project 891 aircraft carrier

[cattalonX]

《砺剑》 20240502 大国航母 深蓝逐梦_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

https://tv.cctv.com/2024/05/02/VIDETi0dmLoU0wogWarLbEZQ240502.shtml?spm=C28340.PAx0UfRDwU7s.E2U4yXoaVNjH.12《砺剑》 20240502 大国航母 深蓝逐梦https://tv.cctv.com/2024/05/02/VIDETi0dmLoU0wogWarLbEZQ240502.shtml?sp, 视频播放量 3206、弹幕量 5、点赞数 90、投硬币枚数 8、收藏人数 76、转发人数 19, 视频作者 MRD910, 作者简介...

www.bilibili.com

Model of concept

 

[AE220]

is this related to the project 707 on global security?

Aircraft Carrier Project - People's Liberation Army Navy

From a purely military perspective, a Chinese aircraft carrier would be expensive to operate, and carrier would be vulnerable to attack by aircraft, fast surface vessels and submarines. An aircraft carrier could enhance China's ability to lay claim to the islands and coral atolls of the South...

www.globalsecurity.org

 

[cattalonX]

is this related to the project 707 on global security?

Aircraft Carrier Project - People's Liberation Army Navy

From a purely military perspective, a Chinese aircraft carrier would be expensive to operate, and carrier would be vulnerable to attack by aircraft, fast surface vessels and submarines. An aircraft carrier could enhance China's ability to lay claim to the islands and coral atolls of the South...

www.globalsecurity.org

From different times
707 means July 1970
891 means January 1989

 

[Torsionbar]

is this related to the project 707 on global security?

Aircraft Carrier Project - People's Liberation Army Navy

From a purely military perspective, a Chinese aircraft carrier would be expensive to operate, and carrier would be vulnerable to attack by aircraft, fast surface vessels and submarines. An aircraft carrier could enhance China's ability to lay claim to the islands and coral atolls of the South...

www.globalsecurity.org

The picture is 1946 Carrier Study - C-2

 

[Antonio]

The picture is 1946 Carrier Study - C-2

An US Navy project

 

[cattalonX]

Scale model and size
Length （waterline）264.435m
breadth （waterline）34.278m
max breadth（Should be the flight deck） 64m
depth（to the flight deck） 25.404m
depth（to the hangar deck）15.839m
displacement 432886 KN（about 44154t）

 

[Hood]

Some pictures from the source in the opening post.

 

[BROF]

From different times
707 means July 1970
891 means January 1989

It is "Clemenceau" and the BS-5 catapults were procured from the Englishmen.

 

[cattalonX]

It is "Clemenceau" and the BS-5 catapults were procured from the Englishmen.

No，

 

[Tzoli]

Also wasn't delta winged aircraft less suitable for carrier fighters due to the instability at lower speed?

 

[cattalonX]

Also wasn't delta winged aircraft less suitable for carrier fighters due to the instability at lower speed?

RafaleM········
I think the Chinese just chose the best fighter they were developing at the time
There was also another model of J-13

 

[Archibald]

Also wasn't delta winged aircraft less suitable for carrier fighters due to the instability at lower speed?

Before fly by wire - yes. Although there was only Skyray so...

I remember a story that when Clemenceau was retired in the fall of 1997, the chineses made a proposal to buy it (just like they dismantled that australian carrier: to learn).

 

[Antonio]

Any image of the previous Project 707?

 

[BROF]

No，View attachment 728099

No it is not. The Mitchell Brown BS-5 on the Clémenceau PA-54 class were made in England. Your "source" is wrong.

 

[SK2]

Those maybe completely different information.

The pages @cattalonX shown are from a thesis which mentioned a model-scale designed for water tank testing, which based on the hull shape of Forrestal while shrinking to the size of Essex. It's not necessary the actual 891, but could be part of the process to evolve to it. The HMAS Melbourne they got in 1985 should benefit them much in designing the 891 also.

 

[cattalonX]

No it is not. The Mitchell Brown BS-5 on the Clémenceau PA-54 class were made in England. Your "source" is wrong.

Because there's nothing about Clemenceau and BS5

In fact, the connection between France and China's aircraft carrier was in 1995, when France wanted to send the decommissioned Clemenceau to China, but it needed to give the order for the refit to France, just like the Indian and Russian aircraft carriers

Of course, the Chinese are not stupid

 

[BROF]

Because there's nothing about Clemenceau and BS5

In fact, the connection between France and China's aircraft carrier was in 1995, when France wanted to send the decommissioned Clemenceau to China, but it needed to give the order for the refit to France, just like the Indian and Russian aircraft carriers

Of course, the Chinese are not stupid

Article in Global Security quoted by "AE220". Nothing to do with Chinese being stupid or not.

 

[Archibald]

Quick Google search. AFAIK, China inquired about buying old Clemenceau back in 1996-1997 but France would not sell it to them.

"the clemenceau""chinese""in 1997" - Google Search

 

[SK2]

There were multiple attempts for China trying to obtain carrier and carrier design during the 90s, with France, Russia, Spain, Italy being the targets

 

[alejandrogrossi]

View attachment 727748

《砺剑》 20240502 大国航母 深蓝逐梦_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

https://tv.cctv.com/2024/05/02/VIDETi0dmLoU0wogWarLbEZQ240502.shtml?spm=C28340.PAx0UfRDwU7s.E2U4yXoaVNjH.12《砺剑》 20240502 大国航母 深蓝逐梦https://tv.cctv.com/2024/05/02/VIDETi0dmLoU0wogWarLbEZQ240502.shtml?sp, 视频播放量 3206、弹幕量 5、点赞数 90、投硬币枚数 8、收藏人数 76、转发人数 19, 视频作者 MRD910, 作者简介...

www.bilibili.com

Model of concept

I like the design. A 45.000tn CV

 

[alejandrogrossi]

View attachment 727804


Scale model and size
Length （waterline）264.435m
breadth （waterline）34.278m
max breadth（Should be the flight deck） 64m
depth（to the flight deck） 25.404m
depth（to the hangar deck）15.839m
displacement 432886 KN（about 44154t）

With that size, that project is in the league of the CdG ?
So F/A-18 / Rafale /F-4J/S/N + E-2 could operate, if this was a Western Cv (real)?

 

[publiusr]

The budget for these things will eat them alive.

 

[cattalonX]

Article in Global Security quoted by "AE220". Nothing to do with Chinese being stupid or not.

Global Security is bullshit，They even used a picture of an American aircraft carrier

 

[donnyjie]

Global Security is bullshit，They even used a picture of an American aircraft carrier

View attachment 728591

The blueprint could even be found in USN's Spring Style Book 4, which is just in another thread: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/us-navy-spring-styles-ship-designs-book-4-1946-1954.39443/
Shame on you, Global Security!

 

[publiusr]

Global Security is bullshit，They even used a picture of an American aircraft carrier

View attachment 728591

They had a falling out with Charles Vick didn't they, or was that FAS?

 

[noob2wows]

Any image of the previous Project 707?

According to Chinese military enthusiasts, Project 707 has a line drawing of a cross-section that has not been published on the Internet. Those who have seen it describe it as having “no outboard structure and a square stern”.