Canadair CL-200

[Retrofit]

Canadair CL-200 to CL-700 designation list
___________________________________

Canadair CL-200 - * transport, cargo, all-wing (6 x P&W JT3D), 1961

Is there more information available concerning this project CL-200?

Thanks in advance

 

[Apophenia]

Concept sketch

 

[Retrofit]

Thank you Apophenia. ;D

This CL-200 project, dated 1961, therefore seems to be the *father* of the spanloader projects designed between the mid 70's, till late 80's by NASA, Boeing, MDD, MBB and others.

Could be interesting to know how Canadair intended to load the cargo? Also via the wingtips?

Here attached a 3V from a NASA study dated 1978 (From Hermann Pohlmann's book "Die Fliege", Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart,1983)

Cheers

 

[Apophenia]

I have a vague recollection that the CL-200 was to have hinged wingtips (but I may be totally addled here).

I can't help but wonder if the BKB-1 flying-wing glider (developed by Canadair employees in the late fifties) had any influence on the CL-200 concept.

 

[Apophenia]

A few specs from KM Molson's "Canadian Aircraft since 1909" pg 511.

"laminar-flow control. Six 18,000 lb (8,172 kg) st Pratt & Whitney JT3Ds. Span 325 ft (99.05 m); length 140 ft (42.67 m); height 55 ft 10 in (17.02 m); wing area 22,417 sq ft (2,082.5 sq m)."

 

[Retrofit]

Apophenia, thanks for the CL-200 specs.

Concerning the BKB-1, there is an interesting web-site describing her history (and showing the glider in its original configuration) at:
http://www.twitt.org/Brochocki.html

Cheers,

 

[Maveric]

Hi all,

found the Canadair CL.200, a heavy transport aircraft with 325ft span and an all-up weight 445 000kg! Project from 1960 to 1962.
...any connection to the CCF (Burnelli) B.2000?

Servus Maveric

 

[Brochocki]

I apologize. I cannot figure out how to use this Reply procedure properly. I wanted to reply to Apophenia who had suggested an interesting link between the CL-200 and the BKB-1 glider which my father, Stefan Brochocki, designed and built while working at Canadair in the 1950s. This has peaked my curiosity. Hopefully this message will arrive at it's correct destination.

The drawing of the BKB-1 shown on this thread is slightly modified from its original configuration. Witold Kasper (Kasprzyk, while employed at Canadair) along with Fred Bodek had helped with the construction. Kasper left the project in 1956. In 1963 he acquired my father's share of ownership and took the glider to Seattle. He made modifications to the size of the wingtip rudders and added the triangular stabilizers on the trailing edges of the wingtips. (Contrary to the Kasper legends he popularized, he had nothing to do with the original design of the glider.) The drawing displayed in the earlier reply is the same aircraft but with those modifications as shown in a 1966 Air Progress/ Homebuilt Aircraft issue. The article, by Peter Bowers contains many inaccuracies.

If anyone has any information about the BKB-1 from its Canadair days please contact me at sbrochocki@yahoo.com. I am writing a book on the glider. Does anyone know why the plans to do a complete aero-engineered testing program of the glider at Mississippi State University were aborted at the last minute? Any Canadair old-timers out there? I would also be delighted to answer questions as much as I am able. thank you

Stefanie Brochocki

 

[Apophenia]

Welcome Stefanie! Has your research unveiled any official Canadair support for the development of the BKB-1 glider?

My attempt to link the BKB-1 to the CL-200 concept was, of course, highly speculative. Are you aware of any connections to that proposed flying-wing transport of your father, Bodek, or Kasprzyk during their times at Canadair?

 

[Brochocki]

Apophenia,
This is the first I heard about the CL-200. If there were any connections, my father never spoke to me about it. I don't even know if he was aware of it. I never really talked aviation with him until his later years when I began to research what had happened to his glider after it left Canada.

Was the CL-200 ever built or put into production? When was the project started? Stefan started designing the glider in 1953 or 54. It was first flown around 1958. When was the CL-200 conceived?
Were you involved with it? Perhaps I shouldn't ask these things. After all, it is a "secret" projects forum.

I'm curious about how you learned about the glider. Did you work at Canadair or know my father?
Regards,
Stefanie

 

[Brochocki]

Apophenia,
In regards to your first question about Canadair support for the glider, I suspect there was unofficial or passive support, at the very least. I think some materials and machining services were provided . Stefan told me that Canadair was very tolerant of little "skunkworks" projects employees might be involved in.

I have a letter from my father to Canadair requesting 8 weeks paid leave for himself and another member of the team (probably George Adams, one of the BKB test pilots) to accompany the glider to Mississippi to be tested in Raspet's lab. Unfortunately, Stefan's files do not contain a reply. However it is my understanding that the trip was approved. We're not sure why it fell through at the last minute, No one remembers with any certainty. George Adams thinks it may have been a trailering problem. It could also have been due to a change in operating procedure at MSU, as Dr Raspet had been killed in a crash the year prior to this.

Certainly McGill University encouraged the project. It (through Prof Barry Neumann) arranged the testing with Dr J J Cornish of MSU.
Stefanie

 

[Apophenia]

Thank you Stefanie. That 'skunkworks' notions adds a little fuel to my CL-200 speculation. Cheers!

 

[hesham]

From, Canadair The First 50 Years.

 

[Richard N]

Canadair: The First 50 Years book available starting at $7.08:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0921022077/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1