Can someone provide any details about Super 530F&D missiles?

[5S5JASH]

AII information I can get from wiki about the missiles is vague. “The Super 530F and Super 530D share the same general aerodynamic features and internal layout with cruciform low aspect ratio wings, cruciform aft controls, and 30 kg high explosive fragmentation warhead. However the 530D has a lengthened stainless steel body. This allows it to accommodate a more powerful dualthrust solid propellant motor and a new seeker assembly. The new seeker includes doppler filtering for improved low altitude performance and digital micro-processing to enable the seeker to be reprogrammed against new threats” I really want to know about super 530 aerodynamic characteristics and its seeker(ad26). And Compared with the 530f, what are the upgrades of the 530d that makes 530D more reliable when facing chaff.

 

[Archibald]

The 530F entered service with the Mirage F1C-200 & Cyrano IV in 1979. Far better than an old R530 of the previous Mirage III generation.
But still neither pulse-doppler nor look down / shoot down. That was for the Mirage 2000RDI in the mid-1980's: the Super 530D.
That was the main difference between the two (although I'm certainly no expert in radar & missiles).

 

[H_K]

Here is quoting from the bible on all French missiles, “French Tactical Missiles from 1945 to 1995” by Rene Carpentier:

https://www.eurosae.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/R_Carpentier_Missiles_tactiques.pdf

Super 530F details:

The Super 530 F was a new missile. It kept, from the R530, only the diameter (263 mm) and the interchangeability with the missile launcher. This diameter was adapted to the technology of the R 530 (dating from 1958). A diameter of 220 mm would have been more rational for the Super 530, but the EMAA considered that a derivative keeping the diameter reduced the cost of development.

The Super 530 F was developed from 1969 to be adapted to the Mirage F1. Its main characteristics and performances are as follows:

- semi-active EM impulse seeker: we indicated above
(Chapter 8, EMD) the reasons which led to the choice, for the F1, of an on-board radar without continuous illuminator; attacking targets at low altitude was not possible. On the other hand, the AD was modern (monopulse antenna, profiled radome and electronic technology from 1970) and its range was doubled compared to that of the R 530 (gains of the antennas of the radar and of the AD markedly increased);

- classic configuration, but with reduced wing span (0.64 m, instead of 1.1 m for the R 530) to facilitate mounting under the aircraft;

- mass of 245 kg;

- more efficient motor than for the R 530: mass of 115 kg (+ 49 kg) and use of butalane as a propellant;

- Thomson proximity fuse, electromagnetic with correlation (see chapter 8, CFTH), and 32 kg Brandt fragmentation charge;

- performance: firing in the Mirage F1 flight domain with a maximum Mach of 4.5 for the missile; possible height difference of 9000m, allowing the attack of targets at 21,000 m; minimum altitude limited by the seeker, varying from 1,000 m in rear attack to 3,000 m in frontal attack; maximum firing distance of 25 km; minimum shooting distance of 1,000m.

This missile was put into service in 1979; it had undergone a staggering of its development, for budgetary reasons. It should be noted that a few test interceptions took place at the CEL, in 1975, with an altitude difference of 8,000 m on an American AQM 37 A supersonic target flying at a Mach 0.9 higher than the gunner service aircraft. (Vulture).

In addition to the F1, the Super 530 F was adapted to the first Mirage 2000 equipped with an RDM pulse radar. 1,200 missiles were produced until 1988: 650 for France and 550 for export with the F1, to Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan and Qatar. The Super 530 F was used in the Iraq-Iran conflict.

Super 530D details:

The Super 530 D is the version adapted to the Mirage 2000 equipped with a pulse doppler on-board radar (named RDI, pulse doppler radar). The main differences in characteristics compared to the F are as follows:

- semi-active Doppler EMD seeker (see chapter 8, EMD), with the digital technology from 1980 (microprocessor for management); significantly increased AD range: 50km; very high resistance to modern countermeasures;
- partially digitized autopilot computer;
- more efficient vehicle: increased mass and length (+ 30 kg and +265mm), 16% higher total impulse thruster, with a SEP composite envelope;
- performance: maximum speed of Mach 5; possible height difference increased, allowing the attack of targets at 24,000 m; minimum target altitude of 60 m; maximum firing distance of 50 km, with an interception distance of 35 km.

For the time, this missile was "the must" from the point of view of performance. Launched in development in 1977, it was put into service in 1987. 1,000 missiles were produced, including 620 (including 30 training) for France. It was exported with the Mirage 2000 to Egypt, India, Abu Dhabi, Greece. It was widely used by the French Air Force on patrol with seeker operation, without firing, during the Gulf War and the conflict in the former Yugoslavia. This use had not been foreseen and the operating potential of the seeker (the mechanics) was limited to 25 hours; but it could be increased to 200 hours after testing.

Comparison to the AIM-7 Sparrow & other Western AAMs:

For its part, the third American generation consists of the 7 F and 7 M versions of the Sparrow. The vehicle has been improved; but it was especially the seeker that needed modernization. The reliability of the Sparrow 7E version used during the conflict in Vietnam was considered by reports to the United States Senate as unacceptable; the seeker had remained with vacuum “tube” technology.

The Sparrow 7F version, comprising a solid-state technology, was not put into service with difficulty until 1978, due to faults encountered during the evaluation phase; we will see the consequences with the hasty launch of its successor, the AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile). In addition, the jamming resistance was not satisfactory.

The Sparrow 7M version was developed with a monopulse seeker and digital technology and put into service in 1983; its performance was close to that of the Super 530D.

Great Britain (BAe), for its part, acquired the vehicle license for the Sparrow 7E version in the early 1970s; in 1978, it produced a third-generation missile, the Sky Flash, by equipping it with a semi-active Marconi AD Marconi doppler in solid-state technology; it equipped the Phantom, the Tornado and the Swedish Gripen. Italy also acquired the license and produced, on a domestic basis, the air-to-air Aspide and ground-to-air derivatives.

For the interception missile, the Sparrow was superior, until 1987, to the Super 530 F for attacking targets at low altitude; but it was less reliable. After 1987, both Super 530 D and Sparrow 7M missiles had equivalent performance.

More detail on the Super AD26 seeker technology:

The seekers (Super AD 26) for Super 530 F and D represent, like their missiles, mature solutions for air-to-air interception in semi-active mode. These are monopulse seekers with 1970s technology, which weigh 30 kg (with the gyroscope); compared to the AD 26, the range is significantly increased, in particular thanks to the larger diameter antenna. As with the Magic, antenna stabilization is provided using a separate gyro (thus avoiding the gyro head). The radome, lengthened by a factor of 2, creates difficulties for the seeker (aberrations), unlike that of the AD 26 (hemispherical); but this choice allowed a reduction in drag.

The difference between the F version (designed for the Mirage F1) and the D version (doppler) results from the choice of on-board radar. When establishing the first Super 530 project, between 1965 and 1967, the threat taken into consideration was low altitude: only a version discriminating targets from ground echoes by the Doppler effect could be suitable. But the onboard radar was to detect low-altitude targets and feature a continuous-wave illuminator for the missile. The tests, at the end of the 1960s, of the model of the Thomson-CSF Cyrano IV radar, planned for the F1, showed that its performance at low altitude was not sufficient to pursue a target. As a result, the F1 radar was not equipped with an illuminator and a pulsed Super AD 26 was adopted for the Super 530F, launched in 1970. In addition, the priority threat seemed to be moving towards very high altitude (Mig 25). A delay was taken in relation to the American competitor missile, the Sparrow with doppler seeker, and to the American pulse doppler on-board radars.

In 1975, when choosing the definition of the weapons system of the Mirage 2000 DA, the Thomson-CSF RDI pulse doppler radar was chosen for the final version of this aircraft (the development time of such a radar was estimated at 10 years), and the Super 530 D, with its doppler seeker, was launched in 1977.

The schedule was as follows: for the Super 530F, program launch in 1970, first successful launch in 1974, entry into service in 1979; for the Super530D, program launched in 1977, first successful launch in 1982, entry into service in 1987. 2,300 seekers were produced.

 

[Archibald]

Very interesting. As a footnote, the transition from R-530 to Super 530F to Super 530D suffered from the many changes in the AdA interceptor program(s) between 1966 and 1976: Mirage F3, then F1, then ACF, then 2000.

 

[LJHCR]

Nice document

 

[5S5JASH]

Pretty thanks H_K,it makes a lot of sense.By the way,as you just said the priority threat seemed to be moving towards very high altitude.I am wondering if there was a speed gate in 530f so that it possibly could ignore the chaff.

 

[5S5JASH]

Very interesting. As a footnote, the transition from R-530 to Super 530F to Super 530D suffered from the many changes in the AdA interceptor program(s) between 1966 and 1976: Mirage F3, then F1, then ACF, then 2000.

Thank you Archibald,and I was told that the initial version of M2000 could`t carry the super 530f,any idea of that?

​

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Its been discussed here before. Initial batches of Mirage 2000 with RDM radars couldn't use the, 530F. Later batches could, and earlier batches were refitted to be capable.

 

[Archibald]

More info from these many threads. @H_K nailed it in this post.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/mirage-f1-projects.116/page-3#post-514069

The French Mirage 2000 fleet as a whole went through the following phases
-RDM, Magic only (Dijon, July 1984)
-RDM, S.3 standard, Super 530F
-RDI pulse doppler with Super 530D
-RDY: MICA & PESA

The early batches of Mirage 2000 with RDM were given
- first, a Super 530F update (so on par with a Mirage F1)
- and later spare RDI radars (so Super 530D & pulse doppler)

Some of the Mirage 2000 that followed, with RDI / pulse doppler / Super 530D :
-later went to 2000-5F standard with PESA, MICA.

More threads.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/cyrano-radar-family.37016/#post-468736

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/dassault-mirage-2000-avionics.18/#post-26

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/rdm-and-rdi-radars.37018/#post-513452

 

[Archibald]

I still don't understand why they didn't went for, either RDM S.3 or Cyrano IV right from 1984, since both would have provided Dijon's Mirage 2000s with a Super 530F capability right from the beginning. Which already existed on the F1C-200, in passing.

 

[5S5JASH]

I still don't understand why they didn't went for, either RDM S.3 or Cyrano IV right from 1984, since both would have provided Dijon's Mirage 2000s with a Super 530F capability right from the beginning. Which already existed on the F1C-200, in passing.

Sorry to my mistake，I was just wanting to type 530d.So，the 530f was already capable to be carried by initial version of m2000.How about 530D？

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I still don't understand why they didn't went for, either RDM S.3 or Cyrano IV right from 1984, since both would have provided Dijon's Mirage 2000s with a Super 530F capability right from the beginning. Which already existed on the F1C-200, in passing.

RDM S.3 didn't exist in 1984 but was coming soon. Cyrano IV was a bit shit. So they fit early RDM, and then got updated. Seems pretty simple.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I still don't understand why they didn't went for, either RDM S.3 or Cyrano IV right from 1984, since both would have provided Dijon's Mirage 2000s with a Super 530F capability right from the beginning. Which already existed on the F1C-200, in passing.

Sorry to my mistake，I was just wanting to type 530d.So，the 530f was already capable to be carried by initial version of m2000.How about 530D？

If you care to read the above, the first batches of Mirage 2000 couldn't use 530 F until upgraded.

 

[10TonneSkeleton]

Here is quoting from the bible on all French missiles, “French Tactical Missiles from 1945 to 1995” by Rene Carpentier:

https://www.eurosae.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/R_Carpentier_Missiles_tactiques.pdf

Super 530F details:


Super 530D details:


Comparison to the AIM-7 Sparrow & other Western AAMs:


More detail on the Super AD26 seeker technology:

can you tell me about chaff resistance of 530F? could it ignore chaff? i'm searching for information to improve characteristics of this missile in War Thunder

 

[H_K]

can you tell me about chaff resistance of 530F? could it ignore chaff?

I wouldn’t expect this to be public info for any missile.

And given the difficulty of testing this (outside of real world combat operations) I’m not even sure the pilots or engineers who worked with these weapons would have an accurate idea… same goes with missiles of any country honestly (AAMs, SAMs or otherwise).

 

[10TonneSkeleton]

I wouldn’t expect this to be public info for any missile.

And given the difficulty of testing this (outside of real world combat operations) I’m not even sure the pilots or engineers who worked with these weapons would have an accurate idea… same goes with missiles of any country honestly (AAMs, SAMs or otherwise).

For real.
Anyway, as i undrstand, 530F can recieve continuous radar signal, but Cyrano IV can provide only impulse signal, is it right?
I'm just looking for information to improve my Mirage F1-C200 in War Thunder. Currently it has the worst radar among analogs and 530F is useless cause of it.