British Operational Requirement OR.321

[hesham]

Hi,

the British Operational Requirement OR.321,for two-seat trainer,which led to
develop Hunting Jet Provost,the tenders were; Avro-714 ?,Boulton Paul P.124,
Hunting P.84 & Miles M.100.

Also I suggest the English Electric P.9 ?,who know more competitors ?.

 

[Hood]

I am afraid I must correct you Hesham, there were no direct competitors offered under OR.321.
OR.321 was originally raised, along with Spec. T.16/48 Issue 4, to cover the order for the Jet Provost T.1, an evaluation batch of 10 aircraft.
It is true that the Air Staff considered running a tender following the evaluation, the MoS circulated a new draft spec to some companies for their opinions but it was never formally issued.
In the end the Air Staff took the improved Jet Provost T.2 into production as the T.3 under a revised Spec. T.16/48 Issue 5.

The Avro 714 was related to the original T.16/48 for the piston-powered Provost and nothing to do with jet trainers.
All the other designs you mention were private ventures.

It's worth noting that not every OR and Spec was written to stimulate competition, they were necessary to justify any aircraft order to get the Treasury to release the funds and for the MoS to get contracts issued.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Hood,

and maybe Avro-704 was also a private venture.

 

[starviking]

Thank you my dear Schneiderman,

and maybe Avro-704 was also a private venture.

Where is the reference to the Avro 704? I only see the Avro 714 in that clipping.

 

[hesham]

Where is the reference to the Avro 704? I only see the Avro 714 in that clipping.

It was just my suggesting ?.

 

[Hood]

Thank you my dear Schneiderman,

and maybe Avro-704 was also a private venture.

Where is that clipping from?

The Avro 704 is a 1947-48 design, a rather earlier private venture, long dead by the time of the Jet Provost. The 704B crops up, but in surprising places and not connected with Jet Provost either.

PS: I am not Schneiderman, wrong person.

 

[Schneiderman]

T

PS: I am not Schneiderman, wrong person.

No you're not, but I am
The clipping that Hesham showed is from a listing of Avro project numbers put out by the Avro Heritage Centre a few years ago. Do you need a copy?

 

[Hood]

T

PS: I am not Schneiderman, wrong person.

No you're not, but I am
The clipping that Hesham showed is from a listing of Avro project numbers put out by the Avro Heritage Centre a few years ago. Do you need a copy?

You are indeed you!

I was referring to the other clipping in post #3 so I could try to understand who lumped all those designs under OR.321.
To be clear, there was a LOT of design activity in this field, practically everyone was at it and waving brochures at the Air Staff.

*insert plug here* My forthcoming book on the subject should shine more light on this topic.

 

[hesham]

Sorry guys,

by that time,I just saw a post for Schneiderman,and quickly turned
to this topic,so I thought the responding was from him.

I am looking forward for this book,but I have only a simple question,
if Westland had a proposal for jet trainer generally ?.

 

[Hood]

Yes, Westland had proposals.
It has been seen before: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/various-westland-projects.23255/#post-236109
The mystery is the W.37 designation, since Jemiba's post in 2014 we have seen the W.37 fighter-trainer in Tony Buttler's revamped BSP Vol.1, and its clearly a far more capable naval fighter/trainer from March 1950. The W.37 designation was then re-used for the N.114T submission.

I have been able to confirm that the jet trainer is genuine - but not its real identity, presumably Taylor and Allward made a mistake in 1965, perhaps knowing the W.37 been a trainer and assuming this was it. Sadly Covid lockdowns have prevented me obtaining a definitive answer. Given the vagaries of Westland's retrospective designation system it may be that it has no W-x number.
There is no doubt in my mind, however, that the trainer shown in Taylor and Allward is contemporary with the Jet Provost.

 

[hesham]

No my dear Hood,

it was the second use of this designation,please see my suggesting;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/westland-designations.23252/#post-308705

From Putnam book,the EE P.9 data.