FOAS / FCBA /FOA / FCAC

[hesham]

P.1240 Stealth ASTOVL 1 x vectored thrust reverse engine installation * 1987 Swept wing with tip fins

Hi,

Beyond the Harrier - Kingston V/Stol Projects 1957-1988

The aircraft design team based at Kingston-upon-Thames in England (called variously Hawker, Hawker Siddeley Aviation and British Aerospace over the years) produced a large number of Vertical and/or Short Take-Off and Landing (V/STOL) projects in the 1957-1988 timeframe. The unique feature of their w

www.sae.org

 

[sienar]

From the above source
"The P1237 was another RALS concept while the P1240 was a semi-stealth design with a reverse-flow Pegasus engine and dorsal intakes. A centreline mounted ‘clang box’ exhausted the core flow for vertical flight while the fan exhausted aft through two vectoring nozzles in the wing roots. In wing-borne flight the core flow was directed through an afterburning rear nozzle. It also featured a butterfly tail, highly swept wing with tip-mounted fins and internal weapons carriage.

Stealth also led to internal weapons carriage being used on the RALS equipped P1241, which featured a delta wing and inward canted fins aft of the dorsal intakes. Both projects featured a blended wing/body layout with large wing root extensions to enhance maneuverability."

 

[Sundog]

OMG! You guys finally found the "Testors" F-19! (P.1241).

Seriously, though, thanks for finding these designs. Especially the P.1240, even though those wing tip controls would have made it excessively heavy. It just looks really cool!

 

[Mike Pryce]

From the above source
"The P1237 was another RALS concept while the P1240 was a semi-stealth design with a reverse-flow Pegasus engine and dorsal intakes. A centreline mounted ‘clang box’ exhausted the core flow for vertical flight while the fan exhausted aft through two vectoring nozzles in the wing roots. In wing-borne flight the core flow was directed through an afterburning rear nozzle. It also featured a butterfly tail, highly swept wing with tip-mounted fins and internal weapons carriage.

Stealth also led to internal weapons carriage being used on the RALS equipped P1241, which featured a delta wing and inward canted fins aft of the dorsal intakes. Both projects featured a blended wing/body layout with large wing root extensions to enhance maneuverability."

View attachment 620305View attachment 620306

These were very minimal 'quick looks' at things like how to put in a backwards engine etc. One of them says 'as seen on Tomorrow's World'; apparently a manager saw the episode and asked for a drawing.

Google now pulls images out of SAE papers but be aware the SAE crack down on such things.

 

[shedofdread]

Seeing this thread on FOAS has reminded me of something I heard about some years ago..... Does anyone have a scan of the 3 engined (if you know the picture, you'll know about this ) Hercules-based missile launching FOAS concept?

 

[uk 75]

The new Chris Gibson book "Typhoon to Typhoon" gives a detailed description of a BAe P195 project with stovl capability that fits in this. Sadly no illustration

 

[hesham]

The new Chris Gibson book "Typhoon to Typhoon" gives a detailed description of a BAe P195 project with stovl capability that fits in this. Sadly no illustration

Thank you my dear UK 75 for the Info,

and did you mean BAe P.95 ?.

 

[uk 75]

Er yes, sorry I hadn't got the book in front of me

 

[flateric]

...

 

[Scott Kenny]

Hmmm....I remember reading comments of a synthetic vision system in the context of FOAS.

Odd though is the pilot's head is the wrong way around for maximum G tolerance IMO.

no, they tested the "motorcycle" style cockpit, in the 1950s IIRC, and it isn't as good as people thought it would be.

What would folks say the size of this machine was if built?

Large, probably F-22 sized, IMO. Larger than an F-35 for sure.

 

[Dew]

no, they tested the "motorcycle" style cockpit, in the 1950s IIRC, and it isn't as good as people thought it would be.


Large, probably F-22 sized, IMO. Larger than an F-35 for sure.

I seem to remember a comment along the lines of "the prone position is a very good position... just not for flying an aircraft"

 

[zen]

no, they tested the "motorcycle" style cockpit, in the 1950s IIRC, and it isn't as good as people thought it would be.

Rather the complexity of trying to cram 50's cockpit systems and ejection systems. Proved not worth the benefits it THEN delivered.

Large, probably F-22 sized, IMO. Larger than an F-35 for sure.

Probably so. At least in length

 

[Scott Kenny]

Rather the complexity of trying to cram 50's cockpit systems and ejection systems. Proved not worth the benefits it THEN delivered.

The reporting I remember was specifically that there wasn't any better G-tolerance in the motorcycle cockpit.

 

[datafuser]

...

It looks like the one in BAE System's website in 2001.

https://web.archive.org/web/20011013064118/http://www.baesystems.com/gallery/fullimages/FOAS.JPG

 

[flateric]

What a surprise!

 

[Dew]

Rather the complexity of trying to cram 50's cockpit systems and ejection systems. Proved not worth the benefits it THEN delivered.

With respect to the mid-fifties RAE Meteor trials, poor visibility and lack of 'seat-of-the-pants' feel were noted downsides.

The reporting I remember was specifically that there wasn't any better G-tolerance in the motorcycle cockpit.

RAE found the improvement of g-tolerance (w/o g-suit considered to be ~4.1g grey/~4.7 black-out) was improved such that it exceeded the Meteor's structural limit of 6.5g.

ref:. Research paper published in The Journal of Aeronautical History by Dr Graham Rood, 'The Royal Aircraft Establishment Farnborough: 100 years of Innovative Research, Development and Application'.

 

[Scott Kenny]

With respect to the mid-fifties RAE Meteor trials, poor visibility and lack of 'seat-of-the-pants' feel were noted downsides.


RAE found the improvement of g-tolerance (w/o g-suit considered to be ~4.1g grey/~4.7 black-out) was improved such that it exceeded the Meteor's structural limit of 6.5g.

ref:. Research paper published in The Journal of Aeronautical History by Dr Graham Rood, 'The Royal Aircraft Establishment Farnborough: 100 years of Innovative Research, Development and Application'.

Weird, that completely reverses what I had read...

Admittedly, it was in the supplementary materials for the anime Stratos-4, which featured TSR.2s with prone cockpits flying from ZELLs and armed with large nuclear missiles as asteroid interceptors. And because there must be fan service, all the pilots were female and in skin-tight compression suits.

 

[Avimimus]

Any guesses as to the radar requirements? Some of these concepts don't look like they have much room for a radar of any size... still focussed on low altitude penetration?

Also, any idea if Replica was related to an actual FOAS design at some point? I also take it that P.125 significantly predates FOAS?

 

[Avimimus]

OMG! You guys finally found the "Testors" F-19! (P.1241).

Seriously, though, thanks for finding these designs. Especially the P.1240, even though those wing tip controls would have made it excessively heavy. It just looks really cool!

I can't help but wonder how those controls would have done for gust alleviation and side slipping. It is an interesting arrangement. It'd also be lovely to see a CFD to get an idea of what the exact vortices structure would look like coming off of that!