British Experimental Combat Aircraft of WWII

overscan (PaulMM)

overscan (PaulMM)

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I have also done for Hikoki a British WW2 X-Planes, prototypes and non-service types book. Hope that will be out around July time - it is not on the Crecy website yet. This is full of combat, high performance and scale model prototypes but also things like the Buckingham and Welkin which went into production but not service. We have not settled on a title yet - so any suggestions?? I have included a few new projects which have turned up since BSP3 (WW2) was published. Hope it will be of interest to some of you.

Very best wishes to all.
As ever, thanks for all of your support.
Tony.
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From Tony
 
My suggestion:

UNCONVERTED TRIES
British Experimental Aircraft of World War Two
 
Sounds like my suggestion - "Lost Generation" - fell on stoney ground.

We'll use it, eh Mike?

Chris
 
"Services no longer required - British X-Planes, Prototypes and and evaluated aircraft of WW2" ?
Its a tricky one as the book probably cover RAF & FAA types together with aircraft types & designs for either the technology demonstrator or eveluation that were not then put into service or developed into an operational type. :-\
 
"British WWII Experimental & Prototype Airplanes".
 
Experimental, Prototype and Service Test Aircraft of Great Britain in WWII - SP
 
I rather like "Unconverted Tries" - of course it helps if you know a little about rugby..... ;)
 
Trial and Error - Ideas that didn't make it into service
 
I also like UNCONVERTED TRIES for the rugby reference, but here are a few more, all to be followed by an explanatory subtitle like, "British X-Planes & Prototypes of the Second World War"

TRY TRY AGAIN

CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR

MISSED THE MARK/OFF THE MARK/WIDE OF THE MARK

DEVON LOCH*

*Devon Loch was a horse that collapsed just short of the winning line of the Grand National race.
 
The problem with UNCONVERTED TRIES is that it makes no sense at all if you don't get the rugby reference, which many of us outside the UK won't.
I initially thought it was to do with aircraft conversions, which leads to incorrect assumptions about the book's content
 
Hobbes said:
The problem with UNCONVERTED TRIES is that it makes no sense at all if you don't get the rugby reference, which many of us outside the UK won't.
I initially thought it was to do with aircraft conversions, which leads to incorrect assumptions about the book's content
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It's quite interesting because here in France, the expression has moved from rugby to the everyday language, thanks to its use in journalism, notably. Journalists will frequently say that "the try was unconverted" when talking about someone who succeeded once but failed in subsequent attempts.
 
"Fatal Thrust"

These piston aircraft, MB.5, Fury, etc, were all killed off by the jet.

Chris
 
"The Nearly Birds"

Think that's a chapter in a book I own.

"Chances? Slim to none"

"We couldn't possibly afford it!"

These sound more British ;)
 
Hello

A slightly derivative title but what about "Churchill's X-Planes" along with suitable explanatory subtitle?

Regards
Alan
 
By that time, surely "Attlee's X-planes"?

I also fancied "Nothing Ventured"

Chris
 
Don't forget this likely covers some of the test bed aircraft, or types that were not suitable for UK use but used successfully elsewhere so it may not be suitable to focus on the negative projects & designs for the title
 
fudge said:
A slightly derivative title but what about "Churchill's X-Planes" along with suitable explanatory subtitle?
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This is the best title I’ve seen so far.

On the topic of “Unconverted Tries” unless it has entered the vernacular as in French it is really a term for the football historian and not relevant for anyone today. Back before football had been codified into its various streams the Rugby style football (now Union, League and Gridiron) only gave you points after scoring a touchdown in the other side’s end zone if you made the conversion kick. This is why in Rugbys Union and League a touchdown is still called a “try” because it used to give you the chance to ‘try’ to kick through the goal posts. Also why this kick is called a conversion because it converts the try to points.

Obviously somewhere along the way the uproar from a team missing a conversion after all the effort going into crossing the goal line and therefore not getting any points meant that the major part of the points where allocated after the touchdown and only a few extra for the successful conversion kick. Americans remember before Gridiron rule changes the kick had to be taken level with the point on the width of the field where the touch down was scored (and still is in the Rugbys) so making corner touchdowns much harder to convert. Removing this requirement from Gridiron is why the ball no longer needs to be grounded on the field of the end zone to be scored.

Because of this an ‘unconverted try’ is really no big deal. You got most of the points for the touch down over the goal line and life goes on. Also in Gridiron the conversion is a bit of an emotional let down thanks to the centered play-the-ball, why they introduced the two-point conversion. But back in the day of old school Rugby if your goal kicker was to miss the goal posts it was a big deal because you go no points for the touchdown.
 
Please no more Churchill's XYZ titles!
There are too many of these, Churchill's Toy Shop, Churchill's Bunker, Churchill's Spies et al. One might argue Beaverbrook's X-Planes might be slightly more fitting. I think though, a nice useful title like 'British Experimental and Prototype Aircraft 1939-45' (or whatever exact era is covered) is basic and to the point. X-Planes is an American term (and these projects would preceed the X-series in America).

Anyhow, whatever the title this sounds an interesting book, I'm off to make more room on my groaning shelves. ;)
 
I also fancied "Nothing Ventured"
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ISTR that "Nothing Ventured" was the title of a series of articles on this sort of aircraft in 'Aeroplane Monthly', in the late '80s, I think, have to check, so that title would be out.
And I agree with Hood, please no more 'Churchill's.......'.
Although 'British Experimental and Prototype Aircraft 1939-45' is the descriptive title, I think it needs a snappy main title to tempt buyers who wouldn't normally buy 'secret projects' type books. My suggestion would be 'Specials', which I believe was a term used at the time, to refer to this type of aircraft...


cheers,
Robin.
 
Trying Times: British WW2 X-Planes and prototypes.
 
Arjen said:
Trying Times: British WW2 X-Planes and prototypes.
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Simple and efficient. I would just get rid of the "X-Planes" reference which sorely compromises the serious impression the book is supposed to make (I tend to be very wary of books with titles such as "Hitler's X-Planes", to me they are no better than "Hitler's UFOs" or the likes...). So make it Trying Times: British WW2 prototypes and test planes.
 
I will add that many of these aeroplanes, for whatever reason, cannot be considered failures. Some were of course, but many others were overtaken by events. I guess I should have provided the contents list, which is:

One Blackburn B.20 and B.40
Two Blackburn B.44
Three Blackburn B-48/Y.A.1 ‘Firecrest’
Four Boulton Paul P.92 and P.92/2
Five Bristol and Handley Page B.1/39 Bombers
Six Bristol Buckingham
Seven de Havilland DH.99/DH.101/DH.102 ‘Super Mosquito’
Eight Fairey Spearfish and Strike Fighter
Nine Folland Fo.108 and Fo.116
Ten Folland Fo.117
Eleven Gloster F.5/34
Twelve Gloster F.9/37
Thirteen Gloster E.28/39, E.5/42 and Rocket
Fourteen Handley Page HP.75 Manx
Fifteen Hawker Hotspur
Sixteen Hawker Tornado
Seventeen Hawker P.1005
Eighteen Hillson Bi-Mono and ‘Slip-Wing’ Projects
Nineteen Martin-Baker M.B.2
Twenty Martin-Baker M.B.3
Twenty-One Martin-Baker M.B.5
Twenty-Two Miles M.20
Twenty-Three Miles M.35, M.39 and M.39B Libellula
Twenty-Four Napier-Heston Racer
Twenty-Five Saunders-Roe A.37 ‘Shrimp’
Twenty-Six Short S.31
Twenty-Seven Short S.35 Shetland
Twenty-Eight Short S.36 and other Four-Engine Bombers
Twenty-Nine Short S.38 Sturgeon Torpedo Bomber
Thirty Supermarine B.12/36http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/Themes/Aeroish/images/bbc/quote.gif
Thirty-One Supermarine 322 ‘Dumbo’
Thirty-Two Supermarine Spiteful and Seafang
Thirty-Three Vickers 432
Thirty-Four Vickers Windsor
Thirty-Five Westland Welkin
Appendix One One-Off Modifications to Production Aircraft:
A Photographic Gallery

Some tasty aircraft here. Some of course were never built but their qualification for inclusion comes from having serial numbers allocated. Others like the Gloster F.5/34 get in simply because they were still flying in September 1939.
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Gosh! This reads like a who's who of some of the finest British designs of the war years!
 
...and that's why it's the lost generation.

Chris
 
Question....will this book include substantially more detail or other new material compared to the BSP series? It seems at first glance that most of these designs have already been covered there.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
How about:


RAF Redundant: the aircraft that missed WWII
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Because its not just RAF its FAA aircraft as well
 

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