Boeing F-15EX/QA and related variants

[TomcatViP]

That's not an agenda. Don't evade the discussion by calling names please.

The example clearly states that the departure was with his change in direction (reversal). If you are not in a stall, you are within your flying domain.
Moreover, the plane is in a bank. Most a/c are yaw limited to the point that at high alpha (for many around 25 degree), rudder is rendered inoperative and roll restricted (the Meuh effect on the Rafale - Release stick, Release stick).
You have noticed the low speed (180 downto 105kt) but not the fact that it was an evasive manoeuvre. I see it as of much interest.

Last but not least, when it comes to the EX, the test pilot demonstrated such confidence in the new model that he repeatedly hit the pitch limiter right above the runway, in a bank at the end of his initial flight.The videos were posted here. Have a fresh look at it.

View: https://youtu.be/kJEQse4Aq4Q?t=40

 

[Hydroman]

That's not an agenda. Don't evade the discussion by calling names please.

The example clearly states that the departure was with his change in direction (reversal). If you are not in a stall, you are within your flying domain.
Moreover, the plane is in a bank. Most a/c are yaw limited to the point that at high alpha (for many around 25 degree), rudder is rendered inoperative and roll restricted (the Meuh effect on the Rafale - Release stick, Release stick).
You have noticed the low speed (180 downto 105kt) but not the fact that it was an evasive manoeuvre. I see it as of much interest.

Last but not least, when it comes to the EX, the test pilot demonstrated such confidence in the new model that he repeatedly hit the pitch limiter right above the runway, in a bank at the end of his initial flight.The video where posted here. Have a fresh look at it.

View: https://youtu.be/kJEQse4Aq4Q?t=40

TomcatViP is correct. That climbing turn a twards the end of the video was F-35-like, I noticed this when the video was first released, the benefit of a FBW FCAS. The F-15 was limited by its hydromechanical controls (even though is had a CAS). Frankly, the F-15 should have been converted to FBW a long time ago. The FBW FCAS will really increase the F-15's agility and should create care-free handling as well, there is a reason this plane has been around for this many decades, still an excellent aircraft. I worked F-14's when I was in the US Navy, imagine what the F-14 could have been with FBW and the GE engines?

 

[aim9xray]

Actually, that did happen near the end of the Tomcat's life. The Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) - from Marconi was (as I understand it) a drop-in (Form/Fit/Function+) replacement for the analogue AFCS. It didn't change the general maneuvering characteristics (much) as those were driven by the aerodynamics and physical relationships of airframe elements. But I understand that it helped in the edge cases and had greater reliability.

This might not fit the pedantic definition of FBW, but if you expand the definition to "Pilot makes contol input, computer thinks about it, computer commands the control surfaces to achieve the desired effect" I think you're good to go - even if the pushrods, torque tubes and pulleys are still in the mix.

One physical change that did happen with the advent of the F-14A+ was that the glove vanes were either deactivated (F-14A) or removed (F-14A+/F-14B and F-14D).

 

[Deltafan]

https://i12.servimg.com/u/f12/12/07/21/40/usa_us10.jpg

 

[haavarla]

That's not an agenda. Don't evade the discussion by calling names please.

The example clearly states that the departure was with his change in direction (reversal). If you are not in a stall, you are within your flying domain.
Moreover, the plane is in a bank. Most a/c are yaw limited to the point that at high alpha (for many around 25 degree), rudder is rendered inoperative and roll restricted (the Meuh effect on the Rafale - Release stick, Release stick).
You have noticed the low speed (180 downto 105kt) but not the fact that it was an evasive manoeuvre. I see it as of much interest.

Last but not least, when it comes to the EX, the test pilot demonstrated such confidence in the new model that he repeatedly hit the pitch limiter right above the runway, in a bank at the end of his initial flight.The videos were posted here. Have a fresh look at it.

Yeah. Better very late than never..
The new F-15 getting an much needed upgrade that increase its flight envelope AND makes it safer to fly as well.

Something the usuall suspects never got around to understand when Sukhoi pitched the "new" Flanker, Su-35S back in 2008.. They pointed out it was too little and too late for the Russian AF because the F-35 would be dominating the skies.

Still, Improved CAS and FBW systems with integrated TVC, upon which Test pilots stated it increased flight safty all over the flight envelope.

something of a double standard..

 

[F-14D]

How can an USAF General be "pretty impressed" by just a couple of "new" hardpoints? I can understand EPAWSS... but the pylons...

Technically the hardpoints were always there. The problem was that prior to the flight control system of the QA/EX they couldn't be used.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

Some good results from Northern Edge

F-15EX Wins Some, Loses Some in Northern Edge | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The F-15EX both shot down some adversaries and was shot down itself during the recent Northern Edge wargame in Alaska.

www.airforcemag.com

The F-15EX has “full air-to-ground capabilities,” but those were not exercised in the wargame, he said. “The EX’s primary goal was to go up there and execute the current C-model mission.” It performed air dominance as well as homeland defense missions, he said.

Perhaps expanding the future ANG missions, or a back-door pilot to replace/modernize the existing E fleet?

The article Made It sound a bit like they used the Eagle's EW system to act as an improvised growler for the F35s.
I wander if they could use some F15s to carry powerful jammers and not depend on the growlers anymore.

One of the concepts for the FAST packs that became the CFTs used on the F-15 was to put EW equipment in them. It seems like an EF-15 isn't beyond the realm of possibility although I fear the Air Force would rather just continue to "borrow" Navy assets to do the job.

Short of a new design (think F-111 replacement) I think an F-15 variant would be the best option the USAF has for that role.

 

[Josh_TN]

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

 

[isayyo2]

With Stations 1&9 finally in service, I wonder how willpower and how much FMS $$$ would be needed to integrate the Next Generation Jammer pod on stations 2&8?

 

[aim9xray]

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

Not true. The Air Force is HIGHLY interested in EA-18G Growler escort jammers. As long as the Navy owns and pays for them out of their hide.

 

[DWG]

Actually, that did happen near the end of the Tomcat's life. The Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) - from Marconi was (as I understand it) a drop-in (Form/Fit/Function+) replacement for the analogue AFCS. It didn't change the general maneuvering characteristics (much) as those were driven by the aerodynamics and physical relationships of airframe elements. But I understand that it helped in the edge cases and had greater reliability.

I wasn't on the project, but it was just down the corridor, and basically was a rework of our Typhoon technology. IIRC, one of the big advantages was pitched as preventing some of the F-14's nastier stall characteristics.

Full carefree handling is a major advantage in dogfight type situations. It means you can pull the physical limits of the aircraft without having to think about what you're doing, and can slam the stick from one extreme to the other just as often as you want.

 

[trose213]

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

They are already using the F-15s as.

US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35

At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Josh_TN]

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

Not true. The Air Force is HIGHLY interested in EA-18G Growler escort jammers. As long as the Navy owns and pays for them out of their hide.

Source.

 

[Josh_TN]

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

They are already using the F-15s as.

US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35

At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

www.flightglobal.com

As a test, but yes that is as far as I think they will get to an EF-15. There’s no way they are suddenly investing money in a capacity they’ve had no interest in since the spark bark.

 

[rooster]

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

They are already using the F-15s as.

US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35

At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

www.flightglobal.com

Wait. I thought from all these forums and readings into the 35 said the 35 relies on passive sensors like EO and thermal and embedded antenna and didn't need EW support.

 

[trose213]

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

They are already using the F-15s as.

US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35

At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

www.flightglobal.com

As a test, but yes that is as far as I think they will get to an EF-15. There’s no way they are suddenly investing money in a capacity they’ve had no interest in since the spark bark.

Pretty sure it depends on the funding. A F-15EX equipped with a powerful jammer and LREWs in the rear isn't something the USAF isn't going to say no to. The F-15EXs' use case is providing standoff capacity to whatever's too big for attritable drones.

The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

They are already using the F-15s as.

US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35

At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.

www.flightglobal.com

Wait. I thought from all these forums and readings into the 35 said the 35 relies on passive sensors like EO and thermal and embedded antenna and didn't need EW support.

Pretty sure it's the cost benefit tradeoff of compromising the stealth. The F-35 has an extremely potent EW system already and is likely to get a form of the EPAWSS in. The F-15EX really shines over the drones in that it has potentially a lot more power.

 

[totoro]

Was it ever published what's the loadout limit on those outer wing stations?
In the images one can see loadouts with twin amraams or single Harm missile. So I guess the overall allowance with the pylon must be at least 900 or so pounds. But are there indications even heavier loads could be used there?

 

[bobbymike]

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The Air Force's biggest unfunded priority is to buy 12 more F-15EX aircraft.

www.defensenews.com

 

[helmutkohl]

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The Air Force's biggest unfunded priority is to buy 12 more F-15EX aircraft.

www.defensenews.com

with news like this, in addition to the F-22 retirement.. it seems like 5th generation aircraft might be one of the most skipped over generation, and/or the shortest service life? 3rd and 4th gen are still flying

 

[rooster]

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The Air Force's biggest unfunded priority is to buy 12 more F-15EX aircraft.

www.defensenews.com

with news like this, in addition to the F-22 retirement.. it seems like 5th generation aircraft might be one of the most skipped over generation, and/or the shortest service life? 3rd and 4th gen are still flying

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

 

[Bhurki]

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The Air Force's biggest unfunded priority is to buy 12 more F-15EX aircraft.

www.defensenews.com

with news like this, in addition to the F-22 retirement.. it seems like 5th generation aircraft might be one of the most skipped over generation, and/or the shortest service life? 3rd and 4th gen are still flying

Considering the 'action' they saw during their timeframe(1990-2020) as compared to previous generations(1950-1990), it is only obvious.

 

[stealthflanker]

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

Part of EPAWSS apparently

 

[sferrin]

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

Part of EPAWSS apparently

Sevreral other countries have them as well. Singapore for example:

 

[helmutkohl]

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

Part of EPAWSS apparently

Sevreral other countries have them as well. Singapore for example:

View attachment 658352

aww, i almost thought that was a jolly roger Eagle

 

[Josh_TN]

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The Air Force's biggest unfunded priority is to buy 12 more F-15EX aircraft.

www.defensenews.com

with news like this, in addition to the F-22 retirement.. it seems like 5th generation aircraft might be one of the most skipped over generation, and/or the shortest service life? 3rd and 4th gen are still flying

F-35s are very prolific, with six hundred built and a hal dozen nations already taking delivery before full rate. I suspect they will see a lot of service for a very long time. F-22 on the other hand is a dead end for reasons covered in that thread.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Some good results from Northern Edge

F-15EX Wins Some, Loses Some in Northern Edge | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The F-15EX both shot down some adversaries and was shot down itself during the recent Northern Edge wargame in Alaska.

www.airforcemag.com

The F-15EX has “full air-to-ground capabilities,” but those were not exercised in the wargame, he said. “The EX’s primary goal was to go up there and execute the current C-model mission.” It performed air dominance as well as homeland defense missions, he said.

Perhaps expanding the future ANG missions, or a back-door pilot to replace/modernize the existing E fleet?

The article Made It sound a bit like they used the Eagle's EW system to act as an improvised growler for the F35s.
I wander if they could use some F15s to carry powerful jammers and not depend on the growlers anymore.

One of the concepts for the FAST packs that became the CFTs used on the F-15 was to put EW equipment in them. It seems like an EF-15 isn't beyond the realm of possibility although I fear the Air Force would rather just continue to "borrow" Navy assets to do the job.

Short of a new design (think F-111 replacement) I think an F-15 variant would be the best option the USAF has for that role.

I kinda agree, although FAST pack wouldn't be enough I feel. EF-111 had a massive underbody compartment for the EW equipment + the tail mounted EW compartment. It would rather be something like 2 high-mid band equipment in the FAST pack and (possibly) NGJ low band on the centerline.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

US Air Force wish list includes more F-15EX jets but no F-35s

The Air Force's biggest unfunded priority is to buy 12 more F-15EX aircraft.

www.defensenews.com

with news like this, in addition to the F-22 retirement.. it seems like 5th generation aircraft might be one of the most skipped over generation, and/or the shortest service life? 3rd and 4th gen are still flying

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

If you mean that thing next to the canopy, it's the mounting for the MAWS (AN/AAR-57A(V) CMWS). SA Ealges have an actual AAR-57 mounted on that spot, as well as for QA iirc. Since the UV wavelength is very short, its primary purpose is to detect possible MANPADS launch near the airstrip. That obviously doesn't mean it wouldn't be used in ACM or BVR engagement tho.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

Part of EPAWSS apparently

Sevreral other countries have them as well. Singapore for example:

View attachment 658352

The SG aircraft as well as the ANG F-15EX doesn't have the MAWS, so its a dummy mounting. I wouldn't be surprised tho, if that compartment later could be used for an actual equipment mounting point.

 

[sferrin]

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

Part of EPAWSS apparently

Sevreral other countries have them as well. Singapore for example:

View attachment 658352

The SG aircraft as well as the ANG F-15EX doesn't have the MAWS, so its a dummy mounting. I wouldn't be surprised tho, if that compartment later could be used for an actual equipment mounting point.

Why go through the expense of mounting a dummy?

 

[Maro.Kyo]

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

Part of EPAWSS apparently

Sevreral other countries have them as well. Singapore for example:

View attachment 658352

The SG aircraft as well as the ANG F-15EX doesn't have the MAWS, so its a dummy mounting. I wouldn't be surprised tho, if that compartment later could be used for an actual equipment mounting point.

Why go through the expense of mounting a dummy?

I'm not exactly sure and can't think much valid reason, if any, to why they've placed a dummy mount tbh.

 

[robunos]

Why go through the expense of mounting a dummy?

Just a WAG, but maybe it's presence has some deleterious aerodynamic effect, which the FCAS compensates for, and it's quicker/cheaper/easier to fit a dummy fairing, rather than reprogram the FCAS to handle it's absence . . .

cheers,
Robin.

 

[eagle]

Why go through the expense of mounting a dummy?

Just a WAG, but maybe it's presence has some deleterious aerodynamic effect, which the FCAS compensates for, and it's quicker/cheaper/easier to fit a dummy fairing, rather than reprogram the FCAS to handle it's absence . . .

cheers,
Robin.

That is most likely the case for the Advanced Eagle family with FBW controls, that is F-15SA, F-15QA and F-15EX. It has only been certified with the blisters so the blisters stay on regardless if you install a MAWS sensor or not.

This is not the case for the F-15SG, which is why I think the RSAF Eagles fly whithout MAWS for regular ops but have them in storage, or they are fitted for but not with.

 

[eagle]

Was it ever published what's the loadout limit on those outer wing stations?
In the images one can see loadouts with twin amraams or single Harm missile. So I guess the overall allowance with the pylon must be at least 900 or so pounds. But are there indications even heavier loads could be used there?

I thought it was just enough to allow carriage of a HARM missile or the proposed ECM pod. So that would be in the 1000 lbs region for a HARM with pylon and launcher.
Recently I have been browsing through Dennis Jenkins' McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle: Supreme Heavy-Weight Fighter where he states the stations are rated for 1300 lbs.

That raises two questions for me:
1. Did Boeing by any chance increase the rating for those stations, considering they redesigned the wing? My guess is no, but who knows, maybe a customer paid for it.
2. Is 1300 lbs enough to carry the new AARGM-ER? Again, my guess is no, even considering this missile is ejector launched so doesn't require a launch rail. But I guess AARGM-ER plus plyon is more than 1300 lbs.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Boeing to use anti-jamming system from Israel’s Elbit in F-15s

Boeing (BA.N) said on Sunday it will integrate an anti-jamming system developed by Israel's Elbit Systems (ESLT.TA) into a fleet of F-15 fighter jets to be sold to an unnamed customer.

www.reuters.com

Probably an F-15EX order though not stated outright.

 

[trose213]

Boeing to use anti-jamming system from Israel’s Elbit in F-15s

Boeing (BA.N) said on Sunday it will integrate an anti-jamming system developed by Israel's Elbit Systems (ESLT.TA) into a fleet of F-15 fighter jets to be sold to an unnamed customer.

www.reuters.com

Probably an F-15EX order though not stated outright.

Isn't that EPWASS?

 

[bring_it_on]

What's that thing attached to the eagle under the canopy?

Part of EPAWSS apparently

Sevreral other countries have them as well. Singapore for example:

View attachment 658352

The SG aircraft as well as the ANG F-15EX doesn't have the MAWS, so its a dummy mounting. I wouldn't be surprised tho, if that compartment later could be used for an actual equipment mounting point.

Why go through the expense of mounting a dummy?

I think it is for upgradability. On the F-15EX, I believe the MAWS and a towed decoy are a future enhancement not currently part of the program of record.

 

[jsport]

F-15E becomes first aircraft compatible with new nuclear bomb design

Two successful test launches of B61-12 designs mean the F-15E is ready to go with the newest nuclear gravity bomb design.

www.defensenews.com

 

[siegecrossbow]

Slightly off-topic, but Japan is cleared to transform 98 of its F-15J Eagles into "Japanese Super Interceptors".
Link: https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/japan-f-15j-modernization

Funding suspended: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/12/12/national/2021-budget-f-15/

I feel Japan does need a fighter that performs the “grunt work” of long range naval patrol and interception even as its fleet shifts to F-35s and perhaps the F-3 once that’s ready. Scrambling fifth generation aircraft, which are maintenance heavy and expensive, against Bears and H-6s is not the best use of defense budget. This is why I think USAF’s decision to invest in the F-15X is justified.

The F-15J airframes are very old, with the newest built in the late 1990s. It’s probably better for them to either acquire F-15X or indigenize airframe/engine production.

 

[TomcatViP]

I am pretty sure they must have an attentive look there.

 

[isayyo2]

The F-15J airframes are very old, with the newest built in the late 1990s. It’s probably better for them to either acquire F-15X or indigenize airframe/engine production.

They're old, but like the Saudi C/Ds how many flight hours have been racked up? I'd guess it's a bit lower than what the USAF has been through. Japan's J birds are almost bone stock MSIPs minus some IFF mods, they're still flying with APG-63V1s at best and they do not have Link 16 whatsoever...
New build EXs would be a great option no doubt, but how many could they afford?