Beyond the One-Eleven - British Aircraft Corporation BAC 1-11 projects......

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC X-Eleven "project" for a (then) new technology short-medium range jet airliner with CFM-56 engines. This "project" has a wider fuselage cross-section than the standard BAC 1-11. I believe this was the final attempt to make a stand-alone BAC airliner......

The article comes from the August 1977 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC 1-11-800 "project" for a short-medium range jet airliner with the (then) new CFM-56 engines. This "project" retains the standard BAC 1-11 fuselage cross-section. The wing has been stretched at the root with an insert in the same way that McDonnell-Douglas produced the MD-80 from the DC-9-50 or the same way that Boeing produced the 707-320/420 from the 707-120/220......

The article comes from the June 1975 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC 1-11-700 "project" for a short-medium range jet airliner with uprated, higher by-pass ratio Rolls-Royce Spey engines. This "project" is a simpler stretch of the BAC-1-11-500 series airframe......

The article comes from the June 1975 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[LowObservable]

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1977/1977%20-%201898.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1977/1977%20-%201899.html

Interesting days... No twin-engine 7X7, everything to be powered by JT10D/CF6-32-class engines. And maybe a little more life to be eked out of the 737... ;D

 

[Caravellarella]

Is there any truth to the story that the orignal 1-11 would have been larger (longer fuselage) and thus had more seats than the one that eventually appeared as the first variant?

I don't think so sealordlawrence, but then it is before I was born so I don't know for sure. The opposite is more likely in that the BAC 1-11 was derived from the smaller Hunting H-107 "project" and it wasn't originally a BAC design......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[JFC Fuller]

I have confirmed that the 1-11 was a Hunting 107 derivative (they briefly existed together as a sort of high low mix) but the wiki entry for the 1-11 claims it was then scaled down which is why the first production version was the series 200, the series 100 being the unbuilt larger original design?

Was the Super One-eleven one of the design studies prior to the One-eleven series 500? I ask because of the use of the word 'original' in that attachment and also because I have seen the term Super One-Eleven used to describe (as a promotional name) the One-Eleven 500.

Proposed late variant 1-11 engines:

Spey 67: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1973/1973 - 1916.html

RB.213: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968 - 0024.html

 

[Caravellarella]

I have confirmed that the 1-11 was a Hunting 107 derivative (they briefly existed together as a sort of high low mix) but the wiki entry for the 1-11 claims it was then scaled down which is why the first production version was the series 200, the series 100 being the unbuilt larger original design?

Thank you sealordlawrence; I'm sorry but I've never heard of a BAC 1-11-100 "project" so I can't confirm (but then again I try not to put too much creedence in wikipedia entries)......

To get back to the topic of post-BAC 1-11 derivative "projects"; here is a drawing of the 1966 "project" for a Rolls-Royce Conway-powered BAC Super One-Eleven with an all-new six-abreast fuselage cross-section. This was an interim stage between BAC's previous short-haul VC10 "projects" and the BAC 2-11 "project" of September 1967......

Perhaps the predecessor/ancestor "projects" of the BAC 1-11 deserve their own specific topic......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Stargazer]

The genesis of the BAC One-Eleven started with the Hunting H.107, as has been said above. You can read about that story (and see a picture of the H.107 project) in this new thread: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12670.0

 

[Caravellarella]

As there doesn't seem to be a topic devoted to the genesis of the One-Eleven, here is the story of how the One-Eleven came about as told in a very interesting Flight International article dated Aug 10, 1961. Forgive me for being off-topic, and if there is a place more appropriate than this I will gladly recreate my post there...

Stéphane, I think you should start a shiny new topic called something like "Towards the One-Eleven - Hunting Aircraft & BAC projects" and put your article there ;D

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Stargazer]

You won't sue me for copyright infringement or anything?
Promise, I will not start by "Dear Boys and Girls" and not put "projects" in quotes... Oops, just did! LOL

 

[Caravellarella]

Was the Super One-eleven one of the design studies prior to the One-eleven series 500? I ask because of the use of the word 'original' in that attachment and also because I have seen the term Super One-Eleven used to describe (as a promotional name) the One-Eleven 500.

Dear sealordlawrence, as far as I can tell, the BAC-1-11-500 and Super One-Eleven are contemporaries. The BAC 1-11-500 was developed for BEA in response to Government refusal in August 1966 to allow BEA to import 25 Boeing 737s; 18 BAC 1-11-500s were ordered instead......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

You won't sue me for copyright infringement or anything?
Promise, I will not start by "Dear Boys and Girls" and not put "projects" in quotes... Oops, just did! LOL

LOL! :

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, slightly off-topic; here is a picture with a caption in French for a NGTE VTOL "project" to fit a stoppable hot-cycle rotor to a BAC 1-11 airframe......

The picture comes from the 1st October 1966 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!

Thank you sealordlawrence. I'm not convinced the BAC 2-11 can really be considered a BAC 1-11 "project" or derivative. Apart from using the BAC 1-11-500 cockpit, it seems to have been an all-new design with no other commonality with the BAC 1-11. In addition, I've found the BAC 2-11 to be very poorly documented; almost as if it wasn't a 'real' "project". The BAC 2-11 appears to coincide with BEA's first attempt to import 35 Boeing 727-200s, which was refused by the Government's exchequer in August 1966......

I believe the BAC 3-11 is a different creature altogether and cannot be considered a BAC 1-11 "project" or derivative. It is covered (in an odd manner) elsewhere in this forum http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4457.msg35350.html#msg35350 where the BAC 3-11 is weirdly presented as the ancestor/progenitor of the Airbus A300B (which it obviously isn't)......

This is all I have on the BAC 2-11 "project"; an article in French from the 15th September 1967 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[LowObservable]

"Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!"

I've been trying to do that for a long time....

 

[Caravellarella]

"Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!"

I've been trying to do that for a long time....

Haven't we all? Apart from Mr Freschi ;D

 

[Caravellarella]

Did those designs really have such a disturbing effect on you?

Not the designs, just the premise presented :......

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short piece describing a BAC 1-11-600 "project" proposed to British Airways. The BAC 1-11-600 would have been a BAC 1-11-500 updated with features from the BAC 1-11-670 prototype......

The piece comes from the March 1978 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Sorry for reviving an old thread.

So with the BAC 1-11-600, BAC was, in essence, updating the BAC 1-11. Was this an equivalent to McDonnell Douglas updating the DC-9 to become the MD-80, or was it more extensive.

Regards,

Wyvern

 

[Grey Havoc]

Sorry for off topic. I'm not sure the source book of this photo. But I thought that it's a interesting design which worth to post.
Four engined BAC-111 AEW type for the JSDF.

 

[Grey Havoc]

And here is the Maritime Reconnaissance design that was being shopped to the JSDF (for the MSDF PXL requirement in this case) alongside it, and from which it probably was derived, the BAC 1-11 400 (h/t Zebedee):

Heres a couple of good ones from Stephen Skinners book "BAC One -Eleven, The Whole Story"

The first is a 1-11 400 for the Japanese self defense force, with a new wing, extra wing mounted Adour engines, enlarged nose radar, towed mad bird and weapons bay.

 

[fightingirish]

7th January 2021
FEATURE
AIRLINER HISTORY: BAC X-Eleven
It started out as Britain’s last go-it-alone attempt to produce a medium sized airliner. It ended up being the final home-grown commercial aircraft concept to emanate from BAC’s renowned Weybridge design team, passed over in favour of a collaborative, multi-national design as Europe sought to take on the might of the US industry in the 1980s. Why, then, did the BAC X-Eleven fail? [...]

Link (subscription): https://www.key.aero/article/airliner-history-bac-x-eleven
Magazine: Aeroplane - February 2021

 

[Hobbes]

7th January 2021
FEATURE
AIRLINER HISTORY: BAC X-Eleven
It started out as Britain’s last go-it-alone attempt to produce a medium sized airliner. It ended up being the final home-grown commercial aircraft concept to emanate from BAC’s renowned Weybridge design team, passed over in favour of a collaborative, multi-national design as Europe sought to take on the might of the US industry in the 1980s. Why, then, did the BAC X-Eleven fail? [...]

Link (subscription): https://www.key.aero/article/airliner-history-bac-x-eleven
Magazine: Aeroplane - February 2021

From the description, it sounds like the article is about the 3-11...

 

[Grey Havoc]

On a side note, an interesting little tidbit via today's Irish edition of The Times:

Ceausescu plane could be yours for £25,000

Romania The presidential plane used by Nicolae Ceausescu,
the former communist dictator, is to be auctioned this month.
"The Rombac Super One-Eleven plane, seen by Ceausescu as
a crowning achievement of Romanian industry, will have a
starting price of £25,000," Artmark said before the sale on
May 27. It was made under licence from the British Aircraft
Corporation. (AFP)

 

[Grey Havoc]

Sold for a fair penny:

Ceausescu's Private Rides Fetch High Auction Prices

A rare Romanian-produced plane and an Iranian-made car that once belonged to dictator Nicolae Ceausescu sold for many times their starting price at an auction on May 27. Now their owners need to figure out what to do with the items.

www.rferl.org

ORIGINAL CAPTION: A Rombac Super one-eleven jet, one of nine such aircraft produced in Romania.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Now that's one hell of a party piece. I can only imagine the guy who bought it at parties

"Oh, so you have a Gulfstream G650ER? Well, you see that beauty in the corner over there? Well, that's mine, and it was Ceausescu's. Try beat that with your G650."

 

[Deleted member 2278]

Some BAC 1-11 related snippets. This report mentions discussion of a prospective joint venture between BAC & Japan to replace the YS-11. "Joint venture" implies to me Japanese production as opposed to Japanese procurement of a British design but that is admittedly speculation:

StateDeptcable1975-961 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Air France interest in the 800 as a Caravelle replacement and mention of BAC's minimum order threshold to greenlight production, 40-50:

StateDeptcable1975-19380 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Mention of the 1-11-600 to ultimately receive RB.432 engines:

StateDeptcable1978-66479 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

 

[Grey Havoc]

BAC 1-11-203AE: Cowgirls in the Main.

The first BAC One-Eleven Twinjet for Braniff International Airways was rolled out at the BAC factory at Bournemouth Airport at Hurn, England on May 1964. Among the executives and people present wer…

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