Bel Geddes Airliner Number 4 (1929)

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Not quite my definition of "gorgeous"... ::)

... but very interesting, anyway. I often figured this design was typical Popular Mechanics or such invention... As to the flying characteristics of such an aircraft, if built, I doubt very much it could have been very good...

As an aside, I seem to recall that Norman Bel Geddes was the father of actress Barbara, of Dallas fame.
 
  • Stargazer2006 said:
    Not quite my definition of "gorgeous"... ::)

    ... but very interesting, anyway. I often figured this design was typical Popular Mechanics or such invention... As to the flying characteristics of such an aircraft, if built, I doubt very much it could have been very good...
    Click to expand...

    It's cool for its art deco style. Bel Geddes was inspired by the luxury passenger liners that were crossing the Atlantic. It would be the airplane that Cunard, Norddeutsche Lloyd (NDL), Hamburg America, Italian Line or other passenger liner operators would buy. The design is from another era and a different mind set before the goal was to cram as many bodies into an airframe.

    Among the Bel Geddes Airliner No. 4 creature comforts:

    • main lounge 36 ft high
    • 9 decks
    • 3 Kitchens
    • 13 pantries
    • library
    • writing rooms
    • 2 public dining rooms
    • main dining room coverts into a dance floor for 100 couples orchestra platform
    • 3 private dining rooms capable of feeding 40 people
    • 4 deck tennis courts
    • 6 shuffle board courts
    • 6 quoits pitches
    • library
    • writing room
    • 1 gym with dressing rooms and showers
    • 1 men's Solarium w/16 couches and a masseur
    • 1 women’s Solarium w/16 couches and a masseuse
    • 1 children’s playroom
    • 1 doctor's office with waiting room
    • barber shop
    • hairdresser's salon
    • 2 bars
    • 1 store
    • 1 huge promenade deck
    • 1 Veranda Cafe seats 90
    • 18 single state rooms
    • 81 double staterooms
    • 24 suites w/ baths
    • 179 sleeping rooms
    • air-conditioning


    Specifcations:
    Passengers: 606
    Crew: 155
    Wing Span: 528' 5"
    Total power: 38,000 hp
    Engines: 20 1,900 hp internal combustion engines
    Engines in reserve: 6 1,900 hp internal combustion engines
    Maximum Speed: 150 mph
    Cruising Speed: 100 mph
    Landing Speed: 72 mph
    Absolute Ceiling: 10,000 ft
    Time to Climb to ceiling: 1 hr
    Speed at Ceiling: 87-1/2 mph
    Cruising Range Without Refueling: 7,500 miles
    Gross Weight: 1,275,300 lbs
    Unloaded Weight: 662,600 lbs
    Load: 612,700 lbs
    Time from Chicago to Plymouth England: 42 hrs
    Cost of trip: $300 -1930's money
    Cost of aircraft: $9,000,000 - 1930's money

    Crew:
    • 1 Captain
    • 1 Mate
    • 2 Navigators
    • 2 Pilots
    • 1 Chief Engineer
    • 2 Engineers
    • 7 Mechanics
    • 2 Radio Operators
    • 2 Electricians
    • 4 Seamen
    • 1 Purser
    • 1 Cashier
    • 2 Telephone Operators
    • 2 Clerks
    • 1 Stenographer
    • 1 Librarian
    • 1 Baggage Master
    • 2 Baggage Men
    • 1 Chief Steward
    • 1 Chief Dining- Room Steward
    • 2 Head Waiters
    • 2 Wine Stewards
    • 24 Waiters
    • 7 Bus Boys
    • 1 Chief Bar Steward
    • 9 Bar Stewards
    • 1 Chief Deck Steward
    • 6 Deck Stewards
    • 1 Chef, 6 Cooks
    • 2 Dishwashers
    • 24 Room Stewards
    • 16 Room Stewardesses
    • 1 Doctor
    • 1 Nurse
    • 1 Gymnast
    • 1 Masseur
    • 1 Masseuse
    • 1 Barber
    • 1 Hairdresser
    • 1 Manicurist
    • 7 Musicians
    • 1 Shop Attendant
    • 1 Children's Room Stewardess

 
Yep, it must be compared to other 20s gant airliner proposals/design (Junkers, Pegna, etc.). In that, it was more flamboyant and aero in style, but, apart for the size, not so out-of-touch with what people thought was correct.
 
Bel Geddes Airliner Number 4...
I´m interested in the other numbers :p
 
If they ever make the sequel to the Sky captain and the world of tomorrow, this plane would be a nice addition to the diesel punk genre.
 
While doing an image search for "Curtiss-Wright Badge" I came across the site below that has smaller versions of the drawings above along with a lot of other flying wing images. Thought I'd pass this along so someone can search for 'new' images.

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/amphalon/tags/wing/
 
Looking at Triton's specification for this flight of fantasy, all that's missing is the Olympic size swimming pool!
 
Maveric: I'd like to see those other Bel Geddes Air Liner Numbers as well. Alas, only Air Liner Number 4* is mentioned or illustrated in Bel Geddes' Horizons. BTW, that entire book is available online:

https://archive.org/details/horizons00geddrich
Norman Bel Geddes, Horizons, Little, Brown, and Company, Boston, 1932,
See: Chapter 5, By Air To-Morrow, pg 79 (Air Liner section, pp-109-121)

The illustrations of the aircraft were rendered by Charles Stowe Myers, hired by Bel Geddes specifically to illustrated Horizons.

One puzzle is the involvement of Otto A. Kuhler (or Koller?). It's claimed that he was an engineer involved with Pfalz Flugzeugwerke designs during WW1 but there doesn't seem to be any record of him. I'm assuming that here there is some confusion with Bel Geddes' fellow industrial designer, Otto August Kuhler.

On other Bel Geddes aircraft designs, I note that the Harry Ransom Center at UT Austin has the following boxed files:

230 Circular Airplane 1932 1 folder
328 Airliner No. 4 1929-1934 12 folders
495 Experimental Airplanes 1945 3 folders

As well as:

237 Horizons 1931-1935, 1956-1957 27 folders
291 Pan American Clipper 1935-1946 22 folders

http://norman.hrc.utexas.edu/nbgpublic/

The well-illustrated Danny Soar acticle listed by Sandi back in 2007 no longer exists. However, it is still available through the Internet Archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100304132053/http://home.att.net/~dannysoar/BelGeddes.htm

__________________________________________

* I'm using the designation style listed in Horizons for all Bel Geddes sample designs. Also see:
"The Aesthetics of Ascension in Norman Bel Geddes's Futurama", Adnan Morshed (NASM), Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians, Vol. 63, No. 1 (March 2004), pp. 74-99
http://ejmarkfort.typepad.com/files/morshed-adnan-geddes-futurama.pdf

__________________________________________
 
From an engineering point of view, with these engines and design, would it be able to fly in a good manner?
 
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Hi! Large image.

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As well as the plastic model kit featured above, and the Flight Simulator X model linked to Youtube above (model not available for download), there are 2 other attempts to model this aircraft:
1. A free Sketchup (static) version available for download here.
2. A Flight Simulator FS2004 version featured (but not available) here.
 

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robunos said:
I would have thought, had this actually been built, that it would have needed considerable engine upthrust, like the Savoia S.55 . . .

View attachment 623982
Click to expand...

The angle was not to increase lift but to lower the thrust line. It reduced the dangerous nose-up pitching moment when the engine power was cut.
 
Apophenia said:
291 Pan American Clipper 1935-1946 22 folders
Click to expand...

Checking the archive web site, Bel Geddes apparently designed the interior for the Clipper:
"Summary: Bel Geddes designed the Martin Clipper airplane interior, providing day and night accommodations for long flights. The material includes estimates for a 1944 prospect."
 
Apophenia said:
One puzzle is the involvement of Otto A. Kuhler (or Koller?). It's claimed that he was an engineer involved with Pfalz Flugzeugwerke designs during WW1 but there doesn't seem to be any record of him. I'm assuming that here there is some confusion with Bel Geddes' fellow industrial designer, Otto August Kuhler.
Click to expand...
Bel Geddes himself writes in Horizons (p.111):
"In this undertaking I have associated with me Doctor O. A. Koller, as aeronautical engineer. Doctor Koller is responsible for the design of over two hundred different airplanes, including the famous Phalz [sic] plane used so extensively by Germany during the World War. His fourteen years' association with the aeroplane industry include three and one half years with the German Government as chief engineer in charge of design and construction of airplanes for both the army and navy. He has developed very favorable airfoils for wings and pontoons; streamlines for fuselage; and without exception, all of his planes have flown successfully."

Koller's 14 years in the industry mean he must have begun working for Pfalz no earlier than 1916, if Bel Geddes wrote that the year before publication. The classic Pfalz D.III appeared in 1917 and its successor the D.XII in 1918, but they were (according to Wikipedia) designed by Rudolph Gehringer. Few of the D.IV to D.XI saw the light of day, so as a whole they can hardly be described as successful "without exception". Pfalz had no other product line. Bel Geddes has to be wrong about the details there.
Even if Koller worked for some other company, can we really believe that he oversaw 15 successful designs a year and not one dud during those 14 years? And that this paragon of achievement left no trail in the published record?
I conclude that Koller is at best a pseudonym cooked up around the name of his fellow industrial designer. He might be some real person hiding behind it, or pure fiction.

So I checked out the wing loading:
main wing: span 528 ft x chord est. mean 110 ft
aux wing: span 180 ft x chord 54 ft
net area = 58,080 + 9,720 = 67,800 sq ft.
gross wt: 1,275,300 lb
loading = 1,275,300 / 67,800 = 18.8 lb/sq ft

This compares with the (Wikipedia based) calculation for the Do X, which Bel Geddes compares his plane to:
wing area: 5,233 sq ft
Gross wt: 108,027 lb
loading: 20.6 lb/sq ft

His numbers therefore are not unreasonable as such, and he is even realistic enough to have a fully equipped workshop to keep enough engines going. Yet imaginative touches like his braced twinned fins on each wingtip are, to say the least, unusual. Was he modestly competent in aircraft design and grossly OTT only in his ambitions? Was it Kuhler, wanting to keep off the radar for reasons of his own? Or was it someone from the industry who knew his stuff knocking out the engineering details for him? Perhaps those twelve folders in the Harry Ransom Center archive hold the answer.
 
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Minor point: it may be that Herr Dr. O. A. Koller did not work 14 continuous years in the German airplane industry. Perhaps he had to take a few years "off" during the post World War 1 slump in German airplane production.
 
riggerrob said:
Minor point: it may be that Herr Dr. O. A. Koller did not work 14 continuous years in the German airplane industry. Perhaps he had to take a few years "off" during the post World War 1 slump in German airplane production.
Click to expand...
That would mean an even higher and less believable output during the years he did work.
 
Its almost as if the whole idea was just put together for publicity purposes and the '...certain Chicago business men' never actually existed ;):)
 
Wow, just stumbled into this thread, talk about ambitious. A gym and a veranda, sigh.
 
About the only things missing (*) are elevator shafts from floats' bilges to 'engine room', and twin, narrow-gauge tram-lines from wing-tip to wing-tip...

Latter like 'light rail' you find at amusement parks and on holiday resort piers...
--
*) And warp nacelles, of course, of course... ;););););)
 

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