BAE Systems LHD

[Mike Pryce]

BAE's idea to replace HMS Ocean:
http://www.baesystems.com/Businesses/SurfaceShips/PlatformsandProgrammes/AmphibiousVessels/index.htm

Data sheet:
http://www.baesystems.com/BAEProd/groups/public/documents/bae_publication/bae_pdf_lhd_datasheet.pdf

Article:
http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2011/07/lhd-or-not-lhd-that-is-the-question/

It's notable that it is clearly unable to fly off STOVL aircraft (no ski jump, guns in the way) that any allied nations might have, beyond some sort of Ocean-type notional ferry role. Unlike the Canberra class, which clearly assume the USMC may be involved in any amphibious landing.

From the data provided by BAE the article is hard to disagree with. Not a very good design. Bigger than Ocean, but with a smaller hangar/vehicle deck, plus the added complication of a docking well. It needs to be bigger, if you want aircraft and large landing craft in one ship.

My own view is that what the RN has needed since 1985 is a new Hermes. The Italian Cavour seems about right, plus LPDs, even with 2 CVFs.

 

[Thorvic]

Re: New British LHD (don't call it a carrier!)

Well the BAE design is a revamp of the Ocean redesigned to accomodate a dock and vehilce bay in exchange for some of its hanger capacity. Its actually intended to fill the BAE catalogue to go with the Type 26 & CVF as potential joint project possibilities with the expanding navies.

However i wouldn't be surprised to see one ordered under the SDSR 2015 as a gap filler between the CVF manufacturing completeing and the Type 26 production ramping up, especially with the CVF class now being more focused as CATOBAR carriers. They will no doubt carry Marines with Merlin HC4 or Chinook, but you can see them justifying the need for an Ocean replacement possibly by selling off one of the Albion class.

Why would we waste space with a Ski-jump as our naval aircraft will be F-35C, our Harriers are gone and were unlikley to order any F-35B. The Spanish LHD has the Ski-jump for its AV-8B's and has a long term hope for F-35B, as to the RAN versions of the ship i suspect its an unofficial goal to get F-35B to complement their F-35A aircraft at a later date rather than any special consideration for USMC aircraft.

The interesting bit to watch out for is next months sea trials of a pair of F-35B off the USS Wasp. Should these go untroubled then i suspect the F-35B's future is probably safe, should they prove to be difficult and issues arise then the severity could have a long term effect on STOVL aspect of the program and of course the future of the Harrier Carriers !

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Re: New British LHD (don't call it a carrier!)

Strictly speaking this ship does not qualify as a Secret Project. However the state of British defence policy at the moment it’s a pretty safe and sure bet that it will never be built.

as to the RAN versions of the ship i suspect its an unofficial goal to get F-35B to complement their F-35A aircraft at a later date rather than any special consideration for USMC aircraft.

This is completely unfounded. The reason the ski jump was left on the ship was it would cost too much and generate too much risk to redesign it without the ski jump. That ramp is not something a couple of roadies bolted onto the flight deck. It is an integral part of the entire bow and if you cut it off the whole front end of the ship may crumple the first time you hit a big wave.

BAES Australia have been trying to pitch using the ramp to launch TUAVs but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Much easier just to use the proven low risk catapult launch than try and run your Shadow UAV up the ramp and potentially loop it right back into the ship.

Otherwise the ramp will be there for coalition cross decking – which I’m sure the USMC will avail themselves to at every opportunity so they can have a drink in the wardroom – and for hijinks during crossing the line ceremonies.

 

[Triton]

Via Google Translate:

BAE Systems has put on the market the design of a LHD based on HMS Ocean. The ship is 210 feet long and displaces 23,000 tons. The maximum speed is 22 knots and the range of 7000 miles. The crew of about 300 sailors and 800 marines can take. The flight deck can operate six medium helicopters simultaneously and carry six in the hangar. There is space to carry 250 tons of cargo and 100 vehicles.

Source:
http://www.naval.com.br/blog/2011/07/29/o-lhd-da-bae-systems/

 

[Triton]

Is this concept related to this topic with dead links?

"New British LHD (don't call it a carrier!)"
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13756.0.html

 

[Jemiba]

Maybe, but I'm not sure because of the note "..It's notable that it is clearly unable to fly off STOVL aircraft (no ski jump,
guns in the way)".
I can see no guns here, that would prohibit a rolling start or fitting a ski jump.
Would always be good to attach a picture, makes it easier to identify a design later. :-\

 

[Triton]

So I've done my due diligence to prevent duplication of topics.

 

[RP1]

Some wild Googling associates the PDF datasheet with this image, so probably yes. I do remember seeing it in an internal presentation at the time - I didn't know it was publicly announced.


RP1

 

[Triton]

Some wild Googling associates the PDF datasheet with this image, so probably yes. I do remember seeing it in an internal presentation at the time - I didn't know it was publicly announced.


RP1

Thanks, RP1.

 

[Yellow Palace]

Does anyone know anything about a BAE Systems 8-spot LHD?

I used to have datasheets from BVT Surface Fleet - dating them to 2008-2009 - for a 6-spot LHD very similar to the above, and a significantly larger 8-spot ship. As I recall, it was about 35,000 tonnes, perhaps 220 metres long, with an air wing of about 24 helicopters. Embarked forces were quite significant, something like 1100 all ranks.

I believe the design may have originated in the LPH(RC) studies to replace HMS OCEAN.

Unfortunately the datasheets seem to have been lost in a clearout a few years ago and I'd appreciate it if anyone can confirm my recollections.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Via Colombamike over at Shipbucket:

EDIT: Woops, somehow I missed that Triton had already posted this image!

 

[JudgeKing]

Here's a working link for the BAe Systems LHD design:

http://www.baesystems.com/en/product/amphibious-vessels

 

[phil gollin]

.

The BAE link for the LHD is rather unclear as to whether it actually has a "hangar" as such - in the comparisons with Ocean and Albion a specific hangar area (as well as vehicle deck areas) is given, but with the LHD only the vehicle deck area.

It has 6 helicopter spots, but has it got a hangar ?

.

 

[RP1]

The larger image hint at two flight deck lifts - one amidships and one aft - or more specifically, the warning markings one would expect around them. I *think* the image I saw had an aft lift.

 

[TomS]

.

It has 6 helicopter spots, but has it got a hangar ?

The PDF data sheet is clearer. It says there is hangar space for six helicopters and two elevators to bring aircraft from the hangar to the flight deck.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Here's a working link for the BAe Systems LHD design:

http://www.baesystems.com/en/product/amphibious-vessels

It would appear that they are once again actively marketing the design.

 

[JFC Fuller]

Firstly, a couple of programme designations: LPH(R) which accords with the system used by the RN in the 1990s and then LPH-Replacement Capability which seems to have been the woking designation in the early 2000s. The original idea seems to have been a straight Ocean replacement but that later concepts were much larger and took into account the possibility of replacing the capability offered by Bulwark and Albion.That would accord with the 35,000 tonne ship RLBH recalled previously. Studies apparently started in 2003.

Additionally, I found another image of the current BAE offering:

 

[Yellow Palace]

Firstly, a couple of programme designations: LPH(R) which accords with the system used by the RN in the 1990s and then LPH-Replacement Capability which seems to have been the woking designation in the early 2000s. The original idea seems to have been a straight Ocean replacement but that later concepts were much larger and took into account the possibility of replacing the capability offered by Bulwark and Albion. That would accord with the 35,000 tonne ship RLBH recalled previously. Studies apparently started in 2003.

That's precisely right - it was a very interesting ship, and AFAIK the data sheet I used to have was the only information ever made public. Incidentally, I also had information on a modified BAY class with a permanent hangar for four Merlin-type helicopters.