Arsenal de l'Aéronautique ("Arsenal") designations

[Apophenia]

Arsenal de l'Aéronautique Aircraft Designations

L'Arsenal de l'Aéronautique was established in 1936 in an old Breguet factory at Villacoublay. Arsenal was privatised in 1947. It became SFECMAS (Société Française d'Etude et de Construction de Matériels Aéronautiques Special) at the end of 1952. In 1955, SFECMAS merged with SNCAN, becoming the Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Nord.

Early Arsenal designations were based on the initials of the director (Ingenieur-General Michel Vernisse) and the designer (G for Galtier, B for Badie).* VG and VB designation are listed below. [NB: the one-off Arsenal-Delanne 10-C2 tandem-wing fighter followed Delanne's designation sequence not Arsenal's.]

* Update: Hesham has since found an Arsenal VGU designation, apparently for Vernisse and GUyot (see VGU 40 helicopter project).

Built prototype aircraft were given series numbers (eg: VG 33-01 through '05 or VB 10-01) while production aircraft had added military role designation (eg: VG 33C1 or VB 10C1).

After privitization Arsenal adopted a new style of designation with an Ars (sometimes written as Ars.Aéro) prefix was followed by a four digit type number. Ars designations were applied to powered aircraft designs, test gliders, missiles, and target drones. Patterns are a little sketchy. For powered aircraft, these seem to be in the 1000 block (eg: research aircraft 1301, 1402 Gerfaut, etc.).

Exception are the 1947 aerodynamic research aircraft O.101 (note: capital O, not zero). And the 1953 SFECMAS Type 150 (a VTOL derivative of the 1500 Guepard/Nord Griffon).

One research sailplane was designated 4111 but I have found no others. Drones and missiles were given 5000 block type designations (eg: 5100 for AAMs, 5200 for SSMs, 5500 for drones).
An exception is the ST450 experimental missile (this anomoly probably results from the missile being given the same designation as its ramjet motor).

Arsenal (or Arsaéro) engine designations are erratic. The piston engine developments of the wartime German Jumo 213 were simply identified by cylinder number and a type prefix (eg: 12H, 12K, and 24H). The CT10 drone's pulsoréacteur must have had an Arsaéro designation but I haven't found it. The later ramjets were given the prefix ST (for statoréacteur?) followed by the engine's diameter in millimetres.

 

[Apophenia]

Arsenal VG (Vernisse-Galtier) Series


VG 10 - [Project] Jan 1937, tandem-engine fighter aircraft (2 x HS.12X)
-- to have had wooden construction (26 m2 wing), abandoned June 1937,
VG 20 - [Project] Jun 1937, tandem-engine fighter aircraft (2 x HS.12X)
-- VG 10 development (36 m2 wing) with completely metal construction
- VB 10 (redesignation to show involvement of Ing. M Badie), see below
-- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8414.0

Arsenal VG 30 Series single-engined fighters

VG 30 - single-seat fighter, 1 x HS.12Xcrs, wood const. (14 m2 wing), 1 built
- VG 30: (original plan) 1 x 610 hp Potez 12 Dc horiz-opposed 12 engine
-- VG 30 mockup was displayed with originally-planned Potez 12 Dc engine
VG 31 - single-seat fighter, 1 x HS.12Y-31, wood const. (12 m2 wing), 1 built
-- VG 31-01 judged inadequate due to its small wing area, remained unflown
VG 32 - single-seat fighter (Allison V-1710-C15/V-1710-33), one conversion [?]
-- VG 33-05 said to be converted into the prototype VG 32 but conv. incomplete*
- VG 32C1: production version (from Michelin, Clermont-Ferrand), none built
VG 33 - single-seat fighter for the Armée de l'Air, 1 x HS.12Y-31, 14 m2 wing
-- five prototypes (VG 33-01 based on VG 30 fuselage, VG 33-03 used VG 31 fuselage)
-- VG 33-C1 - production version of VG 33 (160 begun)
VG 34 - high-altitude variant, 1 x HS.12Y-45 with Szydlowski-Planiol turbocharger
-- VG 33-02 converted to act as VG 34 prototype
VG 35 - VG 33 variant, 1 x HS.12Y-51, VG 33-04 completed as VG 35-01 prototype
VG 36 - VG 33 variant, 1 x HS.12Y-51, modified radiator/fuselage, one built 1940
- VG 36C1: production version as ordered, none produced before Armistice
VG 37 - [Project] May 1940, VG 36 with HS.12Y-51 (Szydlowski-Planiol turbocharger)
VG 38 - [Project] May 1940, VG 36 with HS-12Y-77 (twin Brown-Boveri turbochargers)
VG 39 - VG-33 variant, 1 x HS.12Y-89ter/HS-12Z, one built
- VG 39bis: [Project] as per VG 39 but with VG 36 fuselage/radiator arrangement
- VG 39 ??: [Project] 1200 hp HS.12Z (may be confusion with VG 40 project)

* Alternatively, VG 33-05 may have been completed as first serial VG 33C1 No. 01. If true, the Allison-powered VG 32 may well have remained an unbuilt project

VGU 40 - [Project] 1933-36 helicopter design by Sébastienne Guyot
- VGU 40: Desig. uncornfirmed, 1933-36 project usually called the 'Loth-Guyot'
-- VGU likely stood for Vernisse + GUyot

VG 40 - [Project] Occupation-era VG 39 development (enlarged wing ?? m2)
- VG 40 ?: 1030 hp Rolls-Royce Merlin III
- VG 40 ?: 1200 hp Hispano-Suiza HS.12Zc

VG 50 - [Project] 1937 transatlantic passenger aircraft, design by Wibault & Vernisse
-- 8 x 2000 hp Clerget 16H turbo-diesels mounted in tandem pairs driving contra-props
-- Flight (Jan 1943) claims alternative G-R 14R or 18R engines

VG 50 - [Project] Occupation-era VG 40 development, 1 x 1200hp Allison V-1710-39
- VG 50 with Arsenal 12H (poss., although Flight had confused VG 50 with VB 10)
-- Designation re-use perhaps to camouflage new fighter dev. during Occupation?

VG 50 - [Project] 1944/45 long-range heavy bomber to Specification B6/R6
-- Uncertain as to desig. re-use unless bomber was related to flying boat?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12427.0.html

VG 60 - [Project] VG 50 development with turbocharged engine
- VG 60: Oct 1939, 1 x 1000 hp HS.12Y-51, Sidlowsky-Planiol 2-stage turbocharger
-- 140 octane fuel to deliver 1800 hp at altitude, max speed 660 km/h
- VG 60: 1942, 1 x 1200 hp HS.12Z, intercooled Rateau turbocharger
-- design aim of 700 km/h due to advanced aerodynamics, study abandoned
- VG 60: 1946?, 1 x Jumo 213E/Arsenal 12H (not confirmed)

VG 70 - Jumo 004B jet-powered derivative of piston-engined VG 60 study
- VG 70: Sept 1944, wooden VG 60 wing structure (raised), metal fuselage
-- VG 70-01 first flew in June 1947 at Villaroche
- VG 71: [Project]

VG 80 - [Project] VG 70 re-engined with R-R Derwent, aband. in favour of VG 90

VG 90 - naval jet fighter derived from VG 70, 1 x HS (Rolls-Royce) Nene 102
-- to meet Aéronavale's 1946 "Chasseur d'interception embarqué à réaction"
- VG 90: prototype flew 27 Sept 1949
- VG 91: [Project]
- VG 92: [Project] land-based derivative of VG 90, not built
- VG 93: [??]
- VG 93: [Project] VG 90 derivative with Arsenal ST600 ramjets on wingtips
- VG 94: [Project] shipboard fighter
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11885.msg114966.html#msg114966

________________________________________

 

[Apophenia]

Arsenal VB (Vernisse-Badie) Series Designations


VB 10 - concept June 1938, 2 x HS.12Z, metal const., wing area 36 m2, 490 km/h
- VB 10: [Project] 1944 'Aile Volante' flying-wing (18 m span), 2 wing variations
-- 'Aile Volante' concept, 2 x tandem HS.12Z, replaced by Jumo 213s, then HS.24Zs
- VB 10: [Project] 1944 naval fighter
- VB 10-01: first prototype, 2 x 860 hp HS.12Y-31, first flight July 1945
- VB 10-02: second prototype, 2 x 1150 hp HS.12Z, first flight Sept 1946
- VB 10-série: planned production model as recce-fighter, abandoned Sept 1948

VB ?? - [Project] 1944 Arsenal tandem-engine racer (may be cover project for VB 10)

VB 15 - [Project] 1946? VB 10 development, 2 x Arsenal 12H (Jumo 213)
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12242.msg119756.html#msg119756

VB 20 - [Project] 1944 single-seat twin-boomed pusher fighter
- VB 20: 2 x 1,560 hp Jumo 213*, max 750 km/h, range 1,400 km
-- Pusher contraprop, not 'push-pull' as per online refs.

______________________________

 

[Apophenia]

Arsenal de l’Aéronautique AIR (Groupe l'AIR) Glider Designations

AIR 100 - 1947 single-seat training sailplane, design by Raymond Jarlaud, 23 built
-- designed to meet 1944 French postwar rearmament/training requirement
-- http://michel.bardot.pagesperso-orange.fr/air100.htm
-- Aeronautical Victor Miné S.30 - 1957 glider using AIR 100 fuselage
-- Aeronautical Victor Miné S.30 - 1957 glider using AIR 102 fuselage

AIR 101 - [??]

AIR 102 - structurally improved, revised wing version of AIR 100, 25 built 1952-1957
-- built by Ets Minié Aéronautique, St-Cyr, aka Minié-Arsenal or Minié Aéro 102

AIR 111 - [?] 1948 competion sailplane?

AIR 4111 - 1949 research sailplane, design by Raymond Jarlaud, one (or two?) built
-- distantly related to AIR 100, aka Arsenal 4-111, aka Arsenal A-4111
________________________________

 

[Apophenia]

Arsenal de l’Aéronautique SA (Sports Aériens) Glider Designations

Arsenal SA.10x series Émouchet (Kestrel or Northern Sparrowhawk) gliders

Arsenal SA.100 - [??]
Arsenal SA.101 - [??]
Arsenal SA.102 - [??]

Arsenal SA.103 Émouchet - 1938-39 parasol training glider, span 12.50 m
-- Designed by M. Mangeot, 160 built 1946-1948 by Roche-Aviation
-- aka Guerchais-Roche SA.103, AIR SA.103, Sports Aériens SA-103
- SA.103 Émouchet à pilotage couché - 1947 prone pilot conversion

Arsenal SA.104 Émouchet - 1946 SA.103 Emouchet development
-- Designed by G. Abrial, improved wing profile, single wheel replaced skid
- SA.104 Émouchet Escopette (Blunderbuss) - 1951 ramjet-assisted glider
-- 4 or 6 SNECMA Escopette 60 kgp ramjets (pulso-réacteurs) under wings*

Arsenal SA.105 - [??] possibly assigned to the licenced ALS DACAL 105**
Arsenal SA.106 - [??] possibly assigned to the licenced ALS DACAL 106**
Arsenal SA.107 - [??]
Arsenal SA.108 - [??]
Arsenal SA.109 - [??]

Arsenal SA.110 Eider - 1945 2-seat training glider, aka Sports Aériens SA-110 Eider

* Émouchet Escopette conversion was done by Sevimia which may have led to some confusion. Some sources list another SA.104 derivative as being the Breguet Br-903 prone pilot glider but it looks nothing like the Émouchet. More likely the Br-903 is a modified Sevimia S-10 (by AIR 100 designer Raymond Jarlaud, perhaps adding to the confusion?).

** Two designs for Algeria's SALS DACAL based on the SA.104 Émouchet wing
[Service de l'Aviation Légère et Sportive - Direction de l'Aviation Civile en Algérie]
-- SALS DACAL 105 - 1953 2-seat school glider, 1 built (flew 21 Aug 1953)
-- SALS DACAL 106 - 1956 2-seat school glider, 8 built by SALS-Algérie
__________________________________

Q: Does anyone have access to Le planeur SA103/SA104 Emouchet et ses dérivés by Christian Ravel, Bleu Ciel Editions?
__________________________________

 

[Stargazer]

This is all very useful, Apophenia. Thanks!

 

[Stargazer]

Q: Does anyone have access to Le planeur SA103/SA104 Emouchet et ses dérivés by Christian Ravel, Bleu Ciel Editions?

My dad's got it. If you're looking for any information in particular, please let me know by PM.

 

[Apophenia]

Arsenal de l’Aéronautique Ars Manned-Aircraft Designations

Ars 1301 - 1950, supersonic tailed delta-wing (19 m2) glider (see Ars 2301 below)
-- demonstrated wing for Ars 1400 studies (below) leading to Nord 1400 Gerfaut
- Ars 2301: swept wing variant of Ars 1301 (see below)

Ars 1400 Series - 1953 jet-powered fighter studies (to Jan 1953 Intercepteurs légers)
- Ars 1401: [Project] 1953 turbo-ramjet + turbojet, high-winged delta interceptor
- Ars 1402: [Project] 1953 turbo-ramjet + Turboméca jet, canard delta interceptor
-- becomes SFECMAS 1402 Gerfaut IA tailed-delta research aircraft (Atar 101C)
-- evolves into Nord 1402B Gerfaut (Atar 101D1)
- Ars 1403: [Project] 1953 turbo-ramjet + turbojet, mid-winged delta interceptor
- Ars 1404: [Project] 1953 turbo-ramjet + turbojet, low-winged delta interceptor
- Ars 1405: [Project] 1953 Atar 101 turbojet-powered, low-winged delta interceptor
-- becomes Nord 1405 Gerfaut II research aircraft (Atar 101F), aka N 1405

Ars 1500 Series - 1952-53 'stato-réacteur' delta-winged fighter studies
- SFECMAS 1500 Guépard: compound ramjet aircraft, built as Nord 1500 Griffon

- see Nord: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12483.0.html

Ars 1600 Series - 1952-53 jet fighter studies
Ars 1700 Series - 1952-53 jet fighter studies
Ars 1800 Series - 1952-53 jet fighter studies
Ars 1900 Series - 1952-53 jet fighter studies
- Ars 1900: [??]
- Ars 1910: [Project] 1952 M=02 supersonic delta-wing fighter interceptor
- tailed delta or tandem 'Delanne' wings, Arsenal turbo-ramjet + Marboré turbojet
-- Arsenal Ars 1910 concept development leads to Nord Gerfaut and Griffon
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6430.msg76661.html#msg76661

Ars ???? - 1951 1/100 wind tunnel model of tandem-winged Delanne 360 jet fighter

Ars 2301 - 1949-50, supersonic sweptwing follow-on from Ars 1301 glider

Ars 4201 - [Project]

Arsenal de l’Aéronautique Manned-Aircraft Project Designation Anomolies

Ars O.101 - 1947 aerodynamic research aircraft (NB: capital O, not zero)

Ars 150 - [Project] 1953 SFECMAS 150 (VTOL deriv. of Nord Guepard/Griffon)

Ars 520 - [Project] 195? single-seat mid-wing interceptor, 1 x Atar 101B. M=1.8

___________________________________

 

[Apophenia]

Arsenal de l’Aéronautique Ars (Ars.Aéro) Missile/Drone Designations

NB: in common useage, these missiles and drones are identified with the successor to Arsenal, SNCA du Nord or Nord Aviation, and military designations - eg: Nord SS.10

French military designations prefixes are: AA = Air-Air, AS = Air-Sol (Air-Surface), SS = Sol-Sol (Surface-Surface), MM = Mer-Mer (Maritime Surface-Surface) R = reconnaissance, CT = Cible Téléguidé (Radio-controlled Target)

Ars 5101 - aka Ars.Aéro 5101 or SFECMAS/Nord AA10 AAM, 200 built 1947-50
- developed from WWII German Ruhrstahl X-4 guided air-air-missile

Ars 5102 - [Project?] improved AA10

Ars 5103 - aka Ars.Aéro 5103/Nord 5103 air-air missile for l'Armée de l'Air
- becomes SFECMAS (and later Nord Aviation) AA20, 6000 built
-- intended as a potential cruise missile interceptor (for V-1s, etc.)

Ars 5110 - ASM development of Ars 5103/AA20, becomes SFECMAS/Nord AS20, 8000 built

Ars 5201 - aka Ars.Aéro 5201, Ruhrstahl X-4 derived AT missile, 1950 production
- becomes SFECMAS SS10/Nord Aviation SS10 (for Programme SS10)
-- tele-guided short-range (2 km) surface-surface tactical/AT missile

Ars 5210 - improved 1956 anti-tank missile, intended as 'heavy' version of SS10
-- becomes SFECMAS SS11/Nord Aviation SS11, 179,347 built
-- NB: Aerospatiale SS.12/AS.12 are later derivatives in this series

Ars 5301 - 1956 Ars 5103 deriv., becomes Nord 5301 aka SFECMAS/Nord ACAM
-- cancelled 1958 but missile testing continued until 1959

Ars 5401 - aka Ars.Aéro 5401 or Nord 5401, 1958 IR-guided, scaled-up AS-20
- entered service as the Nord/Aerospatiale AS30, 3870 built
- [Project] MM30 (Mer-Mer), SSM AS30 derivative (led to PV MM38 Exocet)
-- Aerospatiale AS-30L was a roll-stabilized evolution of Nord 5401

Ars 5501 - 1946 target drone, pulsejet (pulsoréacteur) powered, 413 built
-- derived from German Fieseler Fi 103 flying bomb, 400 km/h at 4000 m
-- aka Ars.Aéro 5501, Ars 5.501, or CT10 (for Programme CT10)

Ars 5510 - 1955 supersonic target drone, Turbomeca Marboré powered
-- aka Nord CT20, NB: no direct relation to Ars 5501
- R20: 1958 reconnaissance derivative of CT-20, service 1968, 62 built
- M20: 1959 Saab-Scania Rb08 deriv., 98 built, aka MM20 (Mer-Mer)

 

[Apophenia]

Arsenal de l’Aéronautique Miscellaneous Designations

Arsenal 12H - 1500hp inverted V12, postwar Junkers Jumo 213A derivative
-- aka SNECMA Arsenal 12H, aka Ars 12H

Arsenal 12K - turbo-compound development of Arsenal 12H
-- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1953/1953%20-%200265.html

Arsenal 24H - 2500-3000 hp H-block engine (using Arsenal 12H components)

Arsenal [???] - Ars 5501's pulsoréacteur, an improved Argus As 014 pulse jet
-- "AS164" appears online (perhaps a garbling of As 014?)

The ST prefix was applied to a Arsenal/SFECMAS ramjet engine and a missile. In both cases, the ST may be the first two letters in statoréacteur, while the numbers refer to diameter in millimetres (this is certainly the case for the ST600)

Arsaero ST450 - experimental missile, 84 launches 1954-59, M=3 at 23000 m
-- aka SFECMAS ST450

Arsaero ST600 - ramjet (statoréacteur), for VG 93 and (poss.) Ars 1910 projects
-- ST600 first tested under wings of AdlA Ju-88
-- Nord Sirius ST625 (625mm ramjet for CT41 Narval) - derived from the ST600?

 

[Apophenia]

Q: Does anyone have access to Le planeur SA103/SA104 Emouchet et ses dérivés by Christian Ravel, Bleu Ciel Editions?

My dad's got it. If you're looking for any information in particular, please let me know by PM.

Thanks Stéphane, will do.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Arsenal Ars 520 was single seat mid-wing intercopter project,powered
by one Turbomeca Atar 101 B turbojet engine, mounted at above the
fuselage and the air intake was in the rear of cockpit,the estimated
speed was 1.8 Mach and 15000m altitude.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1166.msg9498/highlight,arsenal+520.html#msg9498

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks Hesham. I've added the Ars 520 to the 'Anomolies' section above.

 

[Stargazer]

According to some old notes of mine:

- There was also a VG.71 project
- There were VG.91 and VG.92 projects (the latter being an unbuilt land-based version)
- The Arsenal 520 was an unmanned interceptor
- The Arsenal 4-111 (probably the same as AIR-111) was a glider
- The Arsenal 2301 was similar to the German DFS 346
- The Arsenal 1301 was like a 2301 with a Gerfaut-type wing (so probably stemmed from it rather than the other way round)
- The Nord CT.10 and CT.20 both appear as Arsenal types in some sources

I also have an "Arsenal 101" that has "C-128" written next to it in parentheses, although I haven't got the faintest idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

[Apophenia]

Excellent, thank Stéphane! I've added the VG 71, VG 91, and VG 92.

Ars 520: so, this project had both manned and unmanned variants proposed?

Interesting about the 2301 and. I've seen their development/timing described the other way around. Perhaps the 2301 was a more conservative take on the 1301 original design?

The 4-111 was an experimental glider which I've listed as the AIR 4111 while noting both the Arsenal 4-111 and Arsenal A-4111 designation variations.

Nord CT10 and CT20 are listed under their original Ars/Ars.Aéro designations of 5501 and 5510.

The "Arsenal 101" and "C-128" are most intriguing. This may refer to the experimental wing loading tester, O.101. Alternatively, both AIR 101 and SA.101 are 'blanks' in their respective glider listings. But "C-128" ... ???

All the variation in Arsenal designations are very confusing. Even contemporay sources vary wildly between spaces, periods, hyphens, or no space at all.

As a convenience, I decided to avoid punctuation between prefix and type or first numeral and following. (The exception is with the SA series gliders where I've seen no variation that omits the period.) And then there's those French military designations for missiles ...

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Emouchet with two pulse jet engines.


https://books.google.com.au/books?id=kNwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80&dq=POPULAR+mechanics+May+1952+page&hl=en&sa=X&ei=g1y6VIOIC4fpaLCcgegL&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=POPULAR%20mechanics%20May%201952%20page&f=false

 

[Robert]

Slightly off-topic, but I wonder if anyone has any more information about the origin of this state-run arsenal? I recently acquired a reprint of the 1938 edition of Jane's All the World's Aircraft, which has this information about it:
THE GOVERNMENT AIR ARSENAL
Location: Villacoublay
Director: M. Vernisse.
"Under the Law for the Nationalisation of Military Industries the State acquired the works at Villacoublay which formerly belonged to the Breguet Company and converted it into a State Arsenal."

The French Wikipedia entry for Arsenal has this interesting information:

Rapporteur du premier budget de l’Air, voté le 2 juillet 1934, le député socialiste Pierre Renaudel proposa la création d’un établissement d’État, doté de moyens industriels, pour étudier de nouvelles techniques et développer du matériel moderne destiné à l’Armée française. Placé sous la tutelle de la Direction technique et industrielle (DTI) du ministère de l’Air et disposant d’un bureau d’études, de machines outils, d’ateliers de fabrication et de moyens d’essais, l’Arsenal du matériel aérien fut constitué fin 1934. Son bureau d’études fut confié à l’ingénieur général de l’air Michel Vernisse. La loi du 11 août 1936 portant nationalisation de l’industrie aéronautique française permettra à l’Arsenal de l’aéronautique de s’installer dans des hangars récemment construits par Louis Breguet à Villacoublay.

L’arrivée au pouvoir du Front populaire en 1936 et la nationalisation de l’industrie aéronautique modifia légèrement les missions de l’établissement de Villacoublay, rebaptisé Arsenal de l’aéronautique à la suite d'un décret du 6 mai 1936 :

1/ Il doit permettre aux ingénieurs d’État d’obtenir les compétences nécessaires pour calculer les prix de revient exacts du matériel aéronautique, donc de mieux utiliser les fonds publics1.

2/ D’étudier sans soucis de rentabilité des projets ne débouchant pas nécessairement sur des fabrications de série ou « sensibles »1.

3/ De former les ingénieurs d’État aux techniques de pointe1.

I don't speak or read French, but running this through Google translate, it seems to indicate that "l’Arsenal du materiel" was established in 1934 and then in 1936 after nationalization was enacted, it was relocated to the former Breguet factory in Villacoublay as "l’Arsenal de l’aéronautique." The only source for this French Wikipedia entry is "Claude Bonnier, Les Ailes no 753 et 754, novembre 1935", which I do not have access to (and would presumably be in French). This source is dated 1935, which is prior to the nationalization law of 1936. I know that Claude Bonnier was at the Lorraine aircraft engine factory and was appointed Chief Administrator of it when it was nationalized in April 1937 as Société Nationale de Construction de Moteurs.

 

[hesham]

Hi Robert,

here is the two articles,but we want a translator.

 

[Robert]

That's great, thanks Hesham! I have a French-Canadian co-worker; I will talk to him next week and see if he can perhaps assist with translation.

 

[Robert]

So, my co-worker took a look at Les Ailes articles by Claude Bonnier, but it was a bit more than he was willing to translate. It seems that I will need to manually translate them with Google Translate if I want to find out more information (I tried OCR / text recognition but it was not very successful). From what little I have translated so far, it appears that these articles are an editorial or opinion piece by Claude Bonnier, advocating for the creation of the Arsenal.

I have also found a little bit more information from another source, which I am currently reading: State Capitalism and Working-Class Radicalism in the French Aircraft Industry. From page 84: "Even Fernand Lioré, rarely a progressive voice on labor matters, suggested that an effort under way to establish a collective agreement at the Arsenal d'Aéronautique, a state-run facility in Orléans, might provide a framework for broad negotiations." This was in the context of the May 1936 labor strikes in France. So it would seem that Arsenal already existed at this point, and was located in Orléans. It was later, I think in August 1936 around the time of the aircraft industry nationalizations, that Arsenal was re-located to the former Breguet factory in Villacoublay.

 

[Robert]

Using Google Translate, I've manually re-typed the first article (No. 753 21-11-35, pages 4 & 5) in French and then translated to English. The interesting parts:

La création de l'Arsenal de l'Aéronautique implique la refonte des Services Techniques​

La "Technique", base et raison d'être du Ministère-de l'Air doit avoir à sa tête un directeur genéral assisté de quatre directeurs consacrés respectivement aux cellules, aux moteurs et carburants, aux équipements, à l'armement​

A propos do l'Arsenal de l'Aéronautique, M. Claude Bonnier, très distingué chef du Service des Essais à l'Office National des Combustibles Liquides, nous donne dans cette premiere partie de son etude des vues sensees et seduisantes sur ce que devrait etre l'organisation des Services Techniques français. Nous ne savons si cet état de perfection humaine et de travail facile peut etre atteint dans une admlnlstration publique· maies le sens des reformes indiquées par M. Bonnier est certainement celui vers lequel il faut a'orienter.​

The creation of the Arsenal of Aeronautics involves the redesign of the Technical Services​

About the Arsenal of Aeronautics, Mr. Claude Bonnier, very distinguished head of the Testing Department at the National Office of Liquid Fuels, gives us in this first part of his study some sensible and seductive views on what should to be the organization of the French Technical Services. We do not know whether this state of human perfection and easy work can be attained in a public administration, but the sense of the reforms indicated by M. Bonnier is certainly the one to which we must point.​

The "Technique", the basis and raison d'être of the Air Ministry must be headed by a general manager assisted by four directors, respectively dedicated to organization, engines and fuels, equipment and weapons.​

So, this first article is about M. Bonnier's opinion on redesigning the Technical Services of the Air Ministry. The only interesting information about the Arsenal is near the beginning:

C ’est en 1930 que, pour la premiere fois, su l’initiative de Pierre Renaudel, rapporteur du Budget de l’Air, la creation d’un Arsenal de l’Aeronautiqe etait decide par le Parlement.
Le rapport sur le Budget de 1930 explique en effet (Chapitre 53 bis) qu’un credit nouveau de 5 millions est prevu pour la creation d’un atelier-temoin destine, non pas a des fabrications de serie, mais a la mise au point de materiels speciaux ou secrets, au controle des prix, notamment,
des reparations, a la formation de personnel specialise.
En 1931-32, l’atelier prenait le nom d’Arsenal; 5 nouveaux millions etaient votes. En 1933, 2 millions. En 1934, 5 millions. En 1935, 5 millions, plus 3 millions pour un atelier de reparations de moteurs.
Ainsi, a l’heure actuelle, le Parlement a accorde au total 25 millions pour un Arsenal de l’Aeronautique. Or, c’est un fait que nous n’avons pas d’Arsenal, et il a fallu, au debut de cette annee, d’assez vives observations de la Commission des Finances du Senat pour qu’on se decide a envisage la construction de cet Arsenal.

It was in 1930 for the first time once, on the initiative of Pierre Renaudel, rapporteur of the Budget of the Air, the creation of an Arsenal of Aeronautics was decided by Parliament.
The report on the 1930 Budget explains (Chapter 53 bis) that a new credit of 5 million [francs] is planned for the creation of a second workshop intended, not for serial fabrications, but for the development of special or secret materials, price controls, including repairs, and the training of specialized staff.
In 1931-32, the workshop took the name of Arsenal; 5 million new [francs] were voted. In 1933, 2 million. In 1934, 5 million. In 1935, 5 million plus 3 million for an engine repair shop.
Thus, at present, Parliament has granted a total of 25 million for an Arsenal of Aeronautics. It is a fact that we do not have an Arsenal, and it was necessary, at the beginning of this year, to have quite lively comments of the Finance Committee of the Senate, so that we could consider the construction of this Arsenal.

So it would seem that in 1930 the French Parliament approved funding for the establishment of the Arsenal, and approved additional funding in subsequent years, but as of the beginning of 1935, it had not yet been constructed.

M. Bonnier also briefly mentions Orleans near the end of his article:

Ainsi, les quatre Directions ont besoin d’essais en vol. Le materiel et le personnel permanent de ces terrains sera groupe sure des aerodromes specialement equips, ainsi qu’il en existe a Villacoublay ou Saint-Raphael et qu’il doit en exister a Orleans. C’est au commandant de ces centres que s’addresseront les Directeurs ou les Ingenieurs pour leurs essais.

Thus, the four directorates need flight tests. The equipment and permanent staff of these fields will be a group of specially equipped aerodromes, as exists at Villacoublay or Saint Raphael, and must exist in Orleans. It is to the commander of these centers that the Directors or Engineers will address themselves for their tests.

 

[hesham]

In Decollage 7/1947,

the spoke about Arsenal C.128,I know it was O.101,but what was this designation,
first allocated ?.

 

[Deltafan]

In Decollage 7/1947,

the spoke about Arsenal C.128,I know it was O.101,but what was this designation,
first allocated ?.

In an article by French author Philippe Ricco in Air Magazine 52, he says that nobody knows why this plane had two names (C.128 and O.101). But he adds that the C.128 designation seems to have been ephemeral.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Deltafan.

 

[hesham]

From Ailes 1/12/1951.

 

[hesham]

From Ailes 21/11/1959.

 

[hesham]

In an article by French author Philippe Ricco in Air Magazine 52, he says that nobody knows why this plane had two names (C.128 and O.101). But he adds that the C.128 designation seems to have been ephemeral.

Also from Aviation Francaise 1948.