Army version of G5N Shinzan? (Nakajima Ki-68 / Kawasaki Ki-85)

[airman]

"Further DC-4E-based variants, projected but not proceeded with, included the Ki-68, designed by Nakajima for the Japanese Army and powered by either four Mitsubishi Ha-101 or four Nakajima Ha-103 engines, and the Ki-85, designed by Kawanishi and intended to be powered by four Mitsubishi Ha-111Ms. "
from
http://www.savagesquadron.com/JPpage/JPBombers/Na_G5N1.htm

 

[blackkite]

I can't find Ki-68 and Ki-85 drawings.
http://military.sakura.ne.jp/ac/index_army.htm
http://military.sakura.ne.jp/ac/index_navy.htm
NAKAJIMA＝中島，KAWASAKI=川崎，MITSUBISHI=三菱，KAWANISHI=川西，TACHIKAWA=立川，AICHI=愛知，KYUSHU=九州，KUGISHO=空技廠，MANSHU=満州
AIR PLANE=飛行機，BOMBER=爆撃機，FIGHTER=戦闘機，ATTACKER=攻撃機 or 襲撃機，RECONNAISSANCE PLANE=偵察機，TRAINER=練習機，FLYING BOAT=飛行艇 or 水上飛行機
HEAVY=重，LIGHT=軽，MIDDLE=中
RANGE=航続距離，MAX SPEED=最大速度，CRUISING SPEED=巡航速度，SURVICE CEILING=上昇限度，LONG RANGE=長距離，HOUR=時間
BREADTH=全幅，LENGTH=全長，HEIGHT=全高
SELF WEIGHT=自重，MTOW=全備重量 or 最大離陸重量
ENGINE POWER=出力 or 馬力(horse power)
ENGINE=発動機 or エンジン
liquid cooling:液冷，air cooled=空冷
CARRIER BASE=艦上，LAND BASE=陸上，IJA=大日本帝国陸軍，IJN=大日本帝国海軍

 

[airman]

Exists images of proposed Army version of G5N Shinzan ? ( Nakajima Ki-68 and Kawasaki Ki-85)

 

[blackkite]

I can't find any images of Kawasaki Ki-85 in Japanese sources.
If it remains still now, some SPF members must be have it and post.
It's true that the IJA inspected Ki-85 full scale mock up in 1942.
Perhaps Ki-85's shape was almost same as Shinzan.

 

[Tzoli]

According to Wiki the Ha-111 was the Kasei Engine but I don't know which variant!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Kasei

 

[blackkite]

Hi! HA-111(ハ-１１１) was Kasei(火星、planet Mars) type 25 Otsu engine.
Dry weight : 760kg, Take off power : 1,850hp/2,600rpm, 1,680hp/2,500rpm, 1,540hp/2,500rpm
http://rikukaigunki.nobody.jp/engine/mitubisi.html
The IJA and IJN's unified name : HA32-25, The IJA's name : HA-111, The IJN's name : Kasei25 ;D

 

[airman]

Hi! HA-111(ハ-１１１) was Kasei(火星、planet Mars) type 25 Otsu engine.
Dry weight : 760kg, Take off power : 1,850hp/2,600rpm, 1,680hp/2,500rpm, 1,540hp/2,500rpm
http://rikukaigunki.nobody.jp/engine/mitubisi.html
The IJA and IJN's unified name : HA32-25, The IJA's name : HA-111, The IJN's name : Kasei25 ;D

Then i presume that Ki-68 and Ki-85 could be had been same or similar performance to Ki-85. I don't know if in Ki-68 and Ki-85 there were some differences about tail or any other characteristic. Surely Ki-91 was made ( but not completed) on basis of these.

 

[Pelzig]

Kawasaki Ki-85. Illustration in the June 1981 issue of Wings magazine. Used in Robert Mikesh's article on Japanese heavy bombers.

 

[airman]

Kawasaki Ki-85. Illustration in the June 1981 issue of Wings magazine. Used in Robert Mikesh's article on Japanese heavy bombers.

Thanks Hikoki1946

 

[windswords]

From the image posted by Hikoki it looks like it was the army version of the G5N. I don't see any major changes, other than lack of side blisters. Does anyone know what differences there might have been other than internal equipment? Engines, armament etc?

 

[Pelzig]

Mikesh says that the IJA version of the G5N would have been pretty much the same as the Nakajima product. Any differences would have been cosmetic, based on the manufacturing style of the company. The Ki-85 was simply the Nakajima Ki-68 re-designated. The Ki-68 was the G5M for the IJA. So, yea...two production lines making the same bomber...not smart which is why the Ki-68 was handed off to Kawasaki. Of course, the failure of the G5M spelled the demise of the Ki-68/Ki-85.

From the image posted by Hikoki it looks like it was the army version of the G5N. I don't see any major changes, other than lack of side blisters. Does anyone know what differences there might have been other than internal equipment? Engines, armament etc?

 

[Airborne2001]

What were the intended improvements to the army version over the navy one? I already know that powerful as well as reliable engine were planned, but were any plans to fix the issues surrounding the design being too complex?

 

[airman]

So , reading @ pag 146 of Second Volume of Japanese Secret Projects: Experimental Aircraft of the IJA and IJN 1922-1945 , i have seen there was a plan of production of 500 aircraft of this type of airplane.

 

[airman]

What were the intended improvements to the army version over the navy one? I already know that powerful as well as reliable engine were planned, but were any plans to fix the issues surrounding the design being too complex?

There were proposals about engines : Ha-39 , Ha-101 , Ha-104 ( Mitsubishi : the same used by Ki-67) , and Ha-107 .

 

[blackkite]

In 1940 , the Army planned to convert Shinzan to Army’s specifications.

This planned aircraft was named Ki 68, and the plan was advanced assuming that the engine would be equipped with the Kasei engine’s Army specification Ha 101.
After that, after transferring the design and production from Nakajima to Kawasaki Aircraft, this plan became Ki 85, and a trial production instruction was given on April 27, 1942 , and a full-scale model examination was conducted during the same year.
Although it was completed, the plan was canceled in May 1943 (Showa 18) due to the lack of performance of Shinzan.