Argentinian unguided rockets

[Petrus]

According to books published in Poland ("Rakiety bojowe 1900-1970" by Burakowski and Sala) and Czechoslovakia ("Vojenske rakety" by Kroulik and Ruzicka) there were several unguided rockets developed in Argentina in the 1950s.
These books mention three particular types:

The A3F artillery rocket.
Caliber: 100 mm or 101.6 mm. Length: 1.22 m. Weight: 28 kg. Warhead weight: 10.5 kg. Range: 8,850 m. Thrust: 387 kp. Max. speed: 400 mps.

The A3H air-to-ground rocket (a derivative of the above-mentioned A3F).
Caliber: 100 or 102 mm. Length: 0.976 m. Weight: 22.7 kg. Warhead weight: 10.4 kg. Range: 5,600 m. Thrust: 383 kp. Max. speed: 284 mps.

The A4M air-to-air rocket.
Caliber: 60 mm. Length: 0.72 m. Weight: 4.36 kg. Warhead weight: 1.58 kg. Range: 6,500 m. Thrust: 260 kp. Max. speed: 104 mps.

Below you may see photos of the rockets from the book by Burakowski and Sala.

Interestingly, information on these rockets come, as far as I know, exclusively from souces published in what was then the Warsaw Pact (I suppose that you could find some Soviet/Russian books or magazines where there are notes on the rockets). I have tried to google the rockets, but to no avail, which can mean that the designations given here are not actual.

Nevertheless the rockets must have existed. And the Argentinians (or rather the German engineers hired by the Argentinian authorities) did work on unguided rockets as early as 1940s and 1950s. In a description of almost every indigenous Argentinian (or actually German-Argentinian) aicraft that was developed in that era you may find that it was to be armed e.g. with 75mm unguided rockets. Some time ago I saw in a magazine (I cannot remember what magazine it was, it could most probably be the "Air Enthusiast" or the "Airplane Monthly") a pictorial of the Grumman F9F Panthers in service with the Argentinan Navy's air arm - they had under their wing rockets that were apparently smaller than the US 5-in HVARs. What were they?

So, the issue of the Argentinian unguided rockets remains (to me at least) a little bit misterious matter. Perhaps other members of our forum know more (or almost everything) on the subject?

Best regards,
Piotr

 

[Petrus]

I've just found an Argentinian article at http://movimientoperonista.com/martacurone/ficheros/Las%20grandes%20Realizaciones_emcurone.pdf, which says:

En ese año de 1954, finalizaron exitosamente las experiencias del cohete A3F,
calibre 10,5 cms., para ser aplicado en aviones de la fuerza aérea, de acuerdo
con las modernas teorías de combate, con la colaboración del Instituto
Aerotécnico y la Dirección General de Fabricaciones Militares.
Los primeros ensayos de lanzamiento en vuelo, estuvieron a cargo del capitán
Conan Jorge Doyle y del ler. Teniente Ruperto Pi Uriz, utilizándose el avión I.A.24
"Calquín".

So, apparently, not only did the A3F exist, but also had a calibre of 105mm, not 100mm as the above mentioned sources said.

Piotr

 

[cardonet]

An Argentinean liquid-fueled rocket was designed as soon as 1947-48.

http://www.jpcoheteria.com.ar/TabanoAN1WEB.pdf

 

[Petrus]

At http://www.nuestromar.org/noticias/mar_calmo_122008_21075_grumman_panther_en_argentina I've just found an interesting photo of the F-9F2 Panther in the Argentinian navy's service. The photo's caption says "Bomba de 500lbs y 2 HVAR de alta velocidad" (it doesn't need translation), but in the photo there is something else: a white rocket, apparently smaller a little bit than the HVAR.

It can't be any of other rockets used in Argentina, i.e. 2.25-inch SCAR or the French T-10, so most probably it is an indigenous Argentinian rocket, maybe A3H or A3F.

Piotr

 

[Grey Havoc]

Marker rocket of some kind?

 

[Petrus]

A photo of the Argentinian navy's Corsair armed with 5-in HVARs and rockets that might be the A3F. Found on an Argentinian forum.

Piotr

 

[Petrus]

And here you've got few photos showing Argentinian rockets: in 8 cm calibre, in 21 cm (with three 8 cm rocket motors) and in 10 cm (A3F). The photos have been found somewhere on the Internet

 

[Roland55]

Probably a more recent example, the 57mm "Aspid" and 105mm Pampero rockets

The first is probably more used as a training tool (more like a replacement of the US training rockets that were used before)

The examples on the picture seem to be all Smoke while the one that stands out has an HE head(?)


The other is a more heavy approach, The 105mm Pampero was thought to be used from both Ground batteries and thanks* to a series of aluminium and fiberglass rocket pods, in the army helicopters (Possibly tested on Pucara).

You could say this are a more "explosive" approach when compared to the 70mm FFAR that have been used along with them, you can't carry as much, but the explosive mass of them is way larger.

Regarding their service, the 57mm have been exported to some neighboring countries, while i couldn't find any information regarding the export of the 105mm ones.

There is quite a lot regarding the Rocket pods that ill talk about in another post, since its quite interesting.

 

[Roland55]

Another interesting (and maybe more used) rocket is the Albatros, a 70mm equivalent to the US FFAR, compared to it the albatross had a different system regarding its fins in the back, and a fuse more similar to the late versions of the American equivalent.

This picture is from an inert example.

Regarding a lot of the platforms that supported the 70mm Albatros, there are plenty!
Air launched


Ground based systems


And even ships !



I believe that it was compatible with the LAU-60/61 systems used by the FAA...but im not sure, ill probably give a more in depth about this systems, but for now, just a general idea!

 

[Roland55]

Well, i wouldn't be back if i didn't have something to show you, and im happy to say its...well look for yourselves !



Well, this is in fact an A3F, that has been recovered and restored by a small museum, its interesting to know that there are claims that put the A3F with the I.Ae.24 Calquin, but i have my doubts about it. Nonetheless this is a huge thing, as its the second that its on display and the only one that was restored. Hope that more come this way!

 

[klem]

According to books published in Poland ("Rakiety bojowe 1900-1970" by Burakowski and Sala) and Czechoslovakia ("Vojenske rakety" by Kroulik and Ruzicka) there were several unguided rockets developed in Argentina in the 1950s.
These books mention three particular types:

The A3F artillery rocket.
Caliber: 100 mm or 101.6 mm. Length: 1.22 m. Weight: 28 kg. Warhead weight: 10.5 kg. Range: 8,850 m. Thrust: 387 kp. Max. speed: 400 mps.

The A3H air-to-ground rocket (a derivative of the above-mentioned A3F).
Caliber: 100 or 102 mm. Length: 0.976 m. Weight: 22.7 kg. Warhead weight: 10.4 kg. Range: 5,600 m. Thrust: 383 kp. Max. speed: 284 mps.

The A4M air-to-air rocket.
Caliber: 60 mm. Length: 0.72 m. Weight: 4.36 kg. Warhead weight: 1.58 kg. Range: 6,500 m. Thrust: 260 kp. Max. speed: 104 mps.

Below you may see photos of the rockets from the book by Burakowski and Sala (I am really sorry for the pictures' quality, I photo-copied them from the book several years ago and only now I have scanned the photo-copies).

Interestingly, information on these rockets come, as far as I know, exclusively from souces published in what was then the Warsaw Pact (I suppose that you could find some Soviet/Russian books or magazines where there are notes on the rockets). I have tried to google the rockets, but to no avail, which can mean that the designations given here are not actual.

Nevertheless the rockets must have existed. And the Argentinians (or rather the German engineers hired by the Argentinian authorities) did work on unguided rockets as early as 1940s and 1950s. In a description of almost every indigenous Argentinian (or actually German-Argentinian) aicraft that was developed in that era you may find that it was to be armed e.g. with 75mm unguided rockets. Some time ago I saw in a magazine (I cannot remember what magazine it was, it could most probably be the "Air Enthusiast" or the "Airplane Monthly") a pictorial of the Grumman F9F Panthers in service with the Argentinan Navy's air arm - they had under their wing rockets that were apparently smaller than the US 5-in HVARs. What were they?

So, the issue of the Argentinian unguided rockets remains (to me at least) a little bit misterious matter. Perhaps other members of our forum know more (or almost everything) on the subject?

Best regards,
Piotr

Hi, dear Petrus,do you have a pdf of Rakiety bojowe.thanks

 

[klem]

According to books published in Poland ("Rakiety bojowe 1900-1970" by Burakowski and Sala) and Czechoslovakia ("Vojenske rakety" by Kroulik and Ruzicka) there were several unguided rockets developed in Argentina in the 1950s.
These books mention three particular types:

The A3F artillery rocket.
Caliber: 100 mm or 101.6 mm. Length: 1.22 m. Weight: 28 kg. Warhead weight: 10.5 kg. Range: 8,850 m. Thrust: 387 kp. Max. speed: 400 mps.

The A3H air-to-ground rocket (a derivative of the above-mentioned A3F).
Caliber: 100 or 102 mm. Length: 0.976 m. Weight: 22.7 kg. Warhead weight: 10.4 kg. Range: 5,600 m. Thrust: 383 kp. Max. speed: 284 mps.

The A4M air-to-air rocket.
Caliber: 60 mm. Length: 0.72 m. Weight: 4.36 kg. Warhead weight: 1.58 kg. Range: 6,500 m. Thrust: 260 kp. Max. speed: 104 mps.

Below you may see photos of the rockets from the book by Burakowski and Sala (I am really sorry for the pictures' quality, I photo-copied them from the book several years ago and only now I have scanned the photo-copies).

Interestingly, information on these rockets come, as far as I know, exclusively from souces published in what was then the Warsaw Pact (I suppose that you could find some Soviet/Russian books or magazines where there are notes on the rockets). I have tried to google the rockets, but to no avail, which can mean that the designations given here are not actual.

Nevertheless the rockets must have existed. And the Argentinians (or rather the German engineers hired by the Argentinian authorities) did work on unguided rockets as early as 1940s and 1950s. In a description of almost every indigenous Argentinian (or actually German-Argentinian) aicraft that was developed in that era you may find that it was to be armed e.g. with 75mm unguided rockets. Some time ago I saw in a magazine (I cannot remember what magazine it was, it could most probably be the "Air Enthusiast" or the "Airplane Monthly") a pictorial of the Grumman F9F Panthers in service with the Argentinan Navy's air arm - they had under their wing rockets that were apparently smaller than the US 5-in HVARs. What were they?

So, the issue of the Argentinian unguided rockets remains (to me at least) a little bit misterious matter. Perhaps other members of our forum know more (or almost everything) on the subject?

Best regards,
Piotr

 

[Fr05ty]

And here you've got few photos showing Argentinian rockets: in 8 cm calibre, in 21 cm (with three 8 cm rocket motors) and in 10 cm (A3F). The photos have been found somewhere on the Internet

Do you know where the 8cm and 21cm rockets are? What museum is it in the pictures?

 

[COLDOWN]

Details of the A3F, A3H, A4M and B3 rockets

https://imgur.com/7VXr1cf

View: https://imgur.com/7VXr1cf

or

Regards