AM Specification B.19/27

[VictorXL188]

Hi Folks,

Hope there is someone on here who may be able to help me.
Air Ministry Specification B.19/27 was for a Twin engine night-bomber, which was to be a Virginia/Hinaidi replacement. Although the Fairey Hendon was declared the winner, due to the introduction of that type being delayed, the runner-up, which was the HP Heyford, was eventually accepted.

The other contenders for B.19/27 were the Avro 557 Ava, Vickers Type 150, Vickers Type 163, Vickers Type 195, Vickers Type 225 and the Bristol Type 108.

I would like to know if anyone out there may have some kind of imagery of either of the last two types. namely the Vickers Type 225 and the Bristol Type 108.

Thanks

 

[hesham]

Hi Victor,

we can say the Vickers Type-225 developed from this drawing aircraft.

 

[hesham]

Also Vickers-163 led to design Type-225 Vanox.

 

[Schneiderman]

The Vickers Type numbers you list are mostly correct but only one represents the official submission to B.19/27. Hesham has rather confused the situation. (For the record the Type 225 designation was allocated to Supermarine for the civil version of the Seagull V)

The official Vickers tender to B.19/27 was the Type 150, which was offered in both biplane and monoplane forms and with either Bristol Jupiter or Mercury engines. The biplane was selected for construction but requested to be re-engined with Kestrels. The single prototype flew in this form registered as J9131. During testing it was extensively damaged following double engine failure as was rebuilt, with several modifications, as the Type 195 and named Vanox. The aircraft suffered from directional instability and was eliminated from the competition but was kept in service as a test aircraft, mainly for different engine types.

The Type 163, in many ways a scaled-up Type 150 with four engines, was designed to specification C.16/28 but offered as a late contender to B.19/27. It was rejected. The aircraft was then built as a private venture, registered and flown as O-2. A series of later modification resulted in the aircraft being redesignated as Type 255

 

[VictorXL188]

Thanks both to you Hesham and to Schneiderman, any joy on the other one?

 

[Schneiderman]

No luck tracking down the Bristol so far but I'll keep looking

 

[Schneiderman]

I have no idea where I found this, maybe an image from ebay or a forum somewhere. Probaly not here, I can't find it with search (sorry, I usually keep notes)
Sopwith Hawker - Night Bomber Landplane 19/27

 

[Hood]

That's a very nice find.
Unmistakably a Hawker, you only have to look at the tail. Interesting it has a Flettner rudder tab.
Also interesting is the use of the name Sopwith Hawker, I would have expected H.G. Hawker Engineering but I guess Tom Sopwith kept the Sopwith name alive, at least internally.

 

[Schneiderman]

Interesting isn't it. A blueprint of the Hawfinch fighter that came from the same source (still cannot locate it) is also titled Sopwith Hawker

 

[Schneiderman]

Ah, found it.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/50425147@N07/5429322024/in/set-72157626006726400/
original forum thread
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?106668-Hawker-Engineering-Blueprints

 

[hesham]

Yes,it's it.

(from: Francis K.Mason, "Hawker Aircraft since 1920", Putnam 1991)

 

[ACResearcher]

[size=12pt][size=10pt]Hesham, could you please
identify the source(s) for the drawings you posted here? Thanks in advance. AlanG[/size][/size]

 

[Schneiderman]

But also note that it is not the same design, look at the fin and rudder, the position of the lower wing, the tail gun position.............

 

[hesham]

[size=12pt][size=10pt]Hesham, could you please
identify the source(s) for the drawings you posted here? Thanks in advance. AlanG[/size][/size]

My dear Alan,

the source is Putnam book about Hawker,and from Avro Heritage,here is the Avro-613 for the
specification.

 

[Schneiderman]

Interesting that the text says AS Jaguars while the artwork appears to show liquid cooled engines in nacelles with radiators underneath

 

[hesham]

Interesting that the text says AS Jaguars while the artwork appears to show liquid cooled engines in nacelles with radiators underneath

Maybe early design ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

Not unusual to offer alternative engines, Avro were owned by AS so it is only natural that they would try to sell a design with AS engines. As the Heyford and Hendon both had Kestrels I guess the Air Ministry had a preference for that engine

 

[hesham]

Maybe I have the Bristol-108 in my files,but where ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

Filed under 'Bristol' I would assume