AEKKEA-RAAB Aicrafts

Tzoli

Tzoli

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Greetings, this is my first post on this forum, maybe some of ou already know me from another forum the Warship Projects Discussion Boards.

But here is the question I'm asking here.
I found 1-2 articles about pre WW2 Greek aircrafts at Wikipedia.
These Aircraft are the AEKKEA-RAAB R-27, R-29 and R-52 but the Wiki cannot give enough information about them nor other sites. So maybe someone here with more knowledge could help me?
What was these aircrafts? Can anybody provide me with data and or pictures as well?
Thank you in advance if you can.
 
Welcome Tzoli !

Do you already tried searching for Raab-Katzenstein ?
Judging the designations you're looking for, I could imagine,
that those aircraft were actually identical to the ones, Antonius Raab
had built together with his companion Kurt Katzenstein in Germany.
 
Yes, these are the articles I've found, too. And my theory about
the used designations seems not to be sustainable, as the
AEKKEA-RAAB R-27 was a single seat fighter, whereas the
RK-27 is described as a blimp ! Nevertheless, searching for
"Antonius Raab" could give new results about AEKKEA-Raab, too,
I think.

P.S.: There seems to be a discussion in a greek modeler forum about
R-29. Is that you ? ;)
(http://www.modelclub.gr/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=3574.0)
 
So what info do we have about these aircrafts altogether?
 
Not much indeed!

Two fighters of mixed construction, one (R-27) with a HS 12Y engine, the other
(R-29) with a Ranger engine, I would think of the V770 series, fixed landing gear,
probably both armed with tow guns, speed of 430 km/h and 473 km/h respectively,
but we don't even know, if it were bi- or monoplanes. I would think of soemthing similar
to te Fw 56, but it could be totally different, of course.
And the R-52 is completely a phantom, my only assumption is, that it wouldn't have been
a high performance type, as this would be untypical for a bomber/transport.
Tried to translate from that forum, but the only clue may be a book mentioned there:
Author: Skartsi (?), title (probably) "Encyclopedia of Greek vehicles and aircraft", Patra
1995, ISBN 9-98-0122-595. But still yet I couldn't find that ISBN ...
 
Thanks. So these aircrafts a mystery indeed. What are the connection between the R-27 / R-29 and Schwalbe, Tigerschwalbe aircraft mention together with RAAB?
 
I think, there weren't many connections between them, as the Schwalbe/Tigerschwalbe
were training aircraft, designed for radial engines of up to 200 hp (the Tigerschwalbe, which
Gerhard Fieseler used as his personal aerobatic aircraft, was uprated to an engine of 240hp).
To modify them for inline engines at least double as powerful probably would have needed
a complete redesign. And in 1936, when the R-29 was designed, monoplane already were en vogue.
 
SO it's futile to get any drawings or pictures about these crafts?
 
Probably not ! Experience shows, that every aircraft built has left its marks.
Only problem is to find them. All we can do now is to speculate, but if there's
a photo (better of course two or three ...) we could start making a drawing, which
we can improve with every bit of additional information.
Don't know how many specialists for pre-war greece aircraft there are, but as we
already found a thread in a greece forum, they exist. Don't give up, don't stop searching !
That's what we all here do, everyone mainly for his own theme, of course, but as
you've posted your question, there's the chance, that someone may remember this
thread, when looking at a photo of a strange greek aircraft. Ok, it can take quite a
while and if you'll get additional clues in the meantime, don't hesitate to let us know.
It refreshes our memories then and gives new starting points for searching.
This is how a forum works. ;)
 
Thanks :D

An idea popped into my mind that maybe the R-27 is the armed version of the Schwalbe or based on this aircraft?
 
Re: AEKKEA-RAAB Aircraft

One Schwalbe/Tigerschwalbe connection is that they were also built/marketed by AEKKEA (along with remanufactured RK 2 Pelikans). The R-52 was an unbuilt bomber or transport aircraft. Another unbuilt AEKKEA-Raab project was the R-33 Tigerschwalbe 33 (for Republican Spain).

An odd (or perhaps intentionally misleading) aspect of the AEKKEA-Raab designs is the repeating of previous Raab-Katzenstein designations. The original RK 27 was a 1928 Parseval blimp (D-RK27), the original RK 29 was a biplane tourer.

[edit] I've added rough AEKKEA, Raab-Katzenstein, and Dietrich lists to the Designation section.
 
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Maybe if somebody get a hand on these books can give us more info about these crafts?

From wiki:
* L.S. Skartsis and G.A. Avramidis, "Made in Greece", Typorama, Patras, Greece (2003).
* Jane’s "All the World’s Aircraft" (1936-1937 ed.)
* Antonius Raab, "Raab Fliegt (Erinnerungen eines Flugpioniers)", Reihe Konkret, Hamburg (1984).
* Greek Civil Aviation Authority Archives
* "Oikonomikos Tachydromos" magazine, October 20, 1935 issue (AEKKEA establishment)
 
Re: AEKKEA-RAAB Aicrafts RK 29


In "Raab fliegt" p134 Raab describe a cantilever high wing monoplane for training with a Ranger 280 hp.
Major parts of the aircraft built in athens and then shipped in Spain for completion in a textil shop near Sabadell.
Raab explain the difficulty to obtain the RANGER for rk 29. A russian committee supervise all the supplies
The 30 incomplete body of rk 29 and 30 tigerschwalbe 33 have been shipped in Soviet Russia to investigate the Electron
structure.
Executive secretary in Spain, otto Brauning, a communist betrayed Raab!
nothing else (no pics ,drawings).
 
Interesting. Thanks for the summary vigair. The number of airframes taken to the Soviet Union seems quite firm (other sources say anywhere between 30 and 60).

I note that Raab fliegt uses the old Raab-Katzenstein designation style for the AEKKEA-Raab R-29. A little confusing with the original RK 29 being a biplane. Still, no mistaking the description of the Ranger powered light fighter.
 
The informations about AEKKEA-Raab are scarce , and the illustrations scarcer : the only photos I have are those of the Schwalbe II (SX-AAG & SX-AAL) , a much modified Ra-Ka Kl 1 Schwalbe .

Here the AEKKEA-Raab Pelikan II SX-AAF , a much modified Ra-Ka RK 2 Pelikan : It looks like a two seats Schwalbe II ...

ENJOY !

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/raab-pelikan-ii-aircraft-registration-certificate
 
Some additional infos I found (I hope, at least some are new ...):

Name of Company: Societe Anonyme pour la Fabrication et l'Exploitation des Avions RAAB / AEKKEA (in greek)

Planes:
- R-27 fighter of 1935, monoplane
- Tigerschwalbe IV multipurpose, export to Austrian AF (2-4), Republicans in Spain, USSR
- R-26V trainer
- Pelikan tourist
- R-52 bomber/passenger, 2-engines
- R-29 fighter, monoplane, ready end of 1936, first flight in Spain

It seems, that a lot of the planes were only build in parts in Greece and the final assembly took place in Spain

The company exists until around 1937/38.
 
Viggen_37 said:
Some additional infos I found (I hope, at least some are new ...):

Name of Company: Societe Anonyme pour la Fabrication et l'Exploitation des Avions RAAB / AEKKEA (in greek)

Planes:
- R-27 fighter of 1935, monoplane
- Tigerschwalbe IV multipurpose, export to Austrian AF (2-4), Republicans in Spain, USSR
- R-26V trainer
- Pelikan tourist
- R-52 bomber/passenger, 2-engines
- R-29 fighter, monoplane, ready end of 1936, first flight in Spain

It seems, that a lot of the planes were only build in parts in Greece and the final assembly took place in Spain

The company exists until around 1937/38.
Click to expand...
The Issue with the lack of information is that a lot of their files were destroyed for some reason. Possibly by the Germans during the occupation.
 
I didn't know at the time I posted but it also on RAAB Designations thread plus a couple of other pictures.

Chris
 
tallguy said:
And the pic on Wikipedia shows an open cockpit
Click to expand...

Yeah, Wikipedia took my image from the Designation Systems section. The problem is, although my user name is on the image, there is no link back to SPF. As a result, all of the speculatory context of that image's creation has been lost.

Indeed, the submitter - 'Fertitler' - has gone to the trouble of removing my caption (might made that clear this image was a speculative impression). I suppose the act of chopping out my caption is what transformed this image into Fertitler's 'Own Work'?

-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aekkea-raab-designations.12469/#post-180859
_______________________________________

Update: I informed commons.wikimedia.org about concerns of potential confusion from this 'de-captioned' image. I received an pleasant email response overnight informing me that the image has been removed from Wikipedia. The tone was friendly and understanding. But I was most impressed by speed of their response.

It doesn't get said much around here, but: Well done Wikipedia!
 
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Ok I have managed to download from Academia.ecu a document listing Greek vehicle and machine manufacturers. Amongst the entries is a section on AEKKEA-RAAB. The following illustrations can be found, a picture of the Schwalbe II multi role military aircraft, a Grunau Baby glider apparently with certain differences to its German forebear and the picture shown above on #23 of the R-27. Also a picture of the top part of a sheet of company headed paper showing the address details of the company dating from 1936
I attach the three pages AEKKEA RAAB 1.jpg AEKKEA RAAB 2.jpg AEKKEA RAAB 3.jpg
 
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richard B said:
Interesting :

www.worthpoint.com

RAAB-Pelikan II aircraft Registration Certificate RARE! | #36214255

RAAB PELIKAN II Certificate of Registration VERY RARE, ORIGINAL, Certificate of Registration Issued by the Greek Ministry of Air in March 1936. Includes excellent quality, original photo. The document
www.worthpoint.com www.worthpoint.com


View attachment 714683
Click to expand...
This image is of a Heinkel He 51. I don't have idea of why It says "AEKKEA-RAAB R-29" on it.
 
GringoHovrr said:
This image is of a Heinkel He 51. I don't have idea of why It says "AEKKEA-RAAB R-29" on it.
Click to expand...

Its an airplane. The IfZ (Institute of Contemporary History in Munich) has no real institutional interest in aircraft. To quote them:

... fields of expertise can be divided into four areas of focus:

- Dictatorships in the 20th century
- Democracies and their Historical Self-Perceptions
- Transformations in Most Recent History
- International and Transnational Relations
Click to expand...

-- https://www.ifz-muenchen.de/en/research
 

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