About the Harpoon Block 1D

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FIMMCH98

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White there is information about the missile itself:


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AGM-84 Harpoon Missile Block 1D Brochure.pdf

View and download AGM-84 Harpoon Missile Block 1D Brochure.pdf on DocDroid
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There are mentions that, one of the reason it wasn't produced, was that the missiles were too big for many platforms.

Naturally, submarines and non-harpoon-only missile launchers wouldn't fit the longer missile.

But outside of aircraft not having problems, there is no information about what type of canister it needed for ships. Most likely the Mk 141 wasn't long enough for the Block 1D, but considering it could take slightly longer Type 90 missiles...

In overall, is there any info about the ship-based launchers for Harpoon Block 1D?
 

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I've never heard that the size was the main reason Block 1D wasn't bought in quantity. I thought it was mainly the difficulty in using the extra range and reattack capability in a post-Cold War environment where you had way too much chance of accidentally hitting neautral shipping.

I'm pretty sure it would have fit any ship with the standard Mk 141 launcher frames. It was probably too heavy for the lightweight launcher on the PHMs, though.
 
TomS said:
I've never heard that the size was the main reason Block 1D wasn't bought in quantity. I thought it was mainly the difficulty in using the extra range and reattack capability in a post-Cold War environment where you had way too much chance of accidentally hitting neautral shipping.

I'm pretty sure it would have fit any ship with the standard Mk 141 launcher frames. It was probably too heavy for the lightweight launcher on the PHMs, though.
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"The next version of the Harpoon anti-ship missile was the Block 1D, designated AGM-84F and RGM-84F. The Block 1D missile was longer and heavier for a significant increase in fuel load and flight duration. Because the increased length prevented the use from submarines, there was no "UGM-84F". The longer duration not only increased the missile's range, but also allowed the integration of a re-attack capability. When the radar seeker could not acquire a target after being switched on, the xGM-84F would fly a cloverleaf-shaped search pattern trying to detect the target until fuel exhaustion. Development of the Block 1D started in 1989, and the first missile flew in September 1991. Although it was planned to convert many Block 1C missiles to Block 1D standard, the program was cancelled in 1993."

Looks like it was supposed to be about the same length as Harpoon SLAM (not SLAM-ER).

 
sferrin said:
as Harpoon SLAM (not SLAM-ER).

Boeing AGM/RGM/UGM-84 Harpoon
Click to expand...

Yep, read it.

I have my doubts about the Block 1D being too long for submarines. Even with the extra ~2 feet added, it's still a couple of feet shorter than a Mk 48 ADCAP. And note that the McDD brochure includes subs in their list of potential platforms. I suspect the problem was the RoE and targeting challenge. Plus, subs already had too many demands for space in the torpedo room.

The major platform missing from the brochure is the FFG-7, because the Mark 13 launcher has a hard limit on missile length at 186 inches and Block 1D is 206 inches with booster.
 
TomS said:
sferrin said:
as Harpoon SLAM (not SLAM-ER).

Boeing AGM/RGM/UGM-84 Harpoon
Click to expand...

Yep, read it.

I have my doubts about the Block 1D being too long for submarines. Even with the extra ~2 feet added, it's still a couple of feet shorter than a Mk 48 ADCAP. And note that the McDD brochure includes subs in their list of potential platforms. I suspect the problem was the RoE and targeting challenge. Plus, subs already had too many demands for space in the torpedo room.

The major platform missing from the brochure is the FFG-7, because the Mark 13 launcher has a hard limit on missile length at 186 inches and Block 1D is 206 inches with booster.
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Remember, the Sub-Harpoon is contained in a canister that carries it through the water. They'd need longer canisters for the longer missile and do we know how much longer the canister already is than the missile?

msl_ssm_harpoon_v3.jpg
 
sferrin said:
Remember, the Sub-Harpoon is contained in a canister that carries it through the water. They'd need longer canisters for the longer missile and do we know how much longer the canister already is than the missile?
Click to expand...

True. I was thinking about that. I suspect it would be close -- the canister clearly adds a couple of feet, and 1D would need a bit more buoyancy than earlier versions. OTOH, the stated length of Mk 48 omits the wire spool. So, it's certainly possible it would not fit.

But also, is there a great advantage to Block 1D in subs compared to TASM? And both disappeared about the same time.
 
I've been trying to find information about the RGM-84's launch booster but I haven't had much luck, does anyone know what its designation is, what its weight, thrust and burn time are?
 
If i remember right the block II+ er was with newer engine and smaller warhead which got it the range. With the longer tank it could have gone further or or the same range with a larger warhead.
 
There is not many information on the Block II+ ER out there .... I vaguely recall a report n Aviation Week that said there was a failed flight test, a few years ago ....
 
sferrin said:
Remember, the Sub-Harpoon is contained in a canister that carries it through the water. They'd need longer canisters for the longer missile and do we know how much longer the canister already is than the missile?

View attachment 677528
Click to expand...

I was wondering earlier today when pondering the UGM-84 Harpoon and I was wondering what the designation for the underwater Harpoon launch-canister was?

On another note, @Scott Kenny , it occurred to me that a sub-launched version of the VL-ASROC, call it the UUM-139, could've been developed in the 1990s by giving it folding-fins (It has a 25" wingspan) so it could fit inside the UGM-84's torpedo-launch canister.
 
NMaude said:
I was wondering earlier today when pondering the UGM-84 Harpoon and I was wondering what the designation for the underwater Harpoon launch-canister was?
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Only ever heard it as the "capsule" or "envelope". For either Tomahawk or Harpoon. But also never got to work around them, curse that express route down the ladder before I got to do cool shit!!!


NMaude said:
On another note, @Scott Kenny , it occurred to me that a sub-launched version of the VL-ASROC, call it the UUM-139, could've been developed in the 1990s by giving it folding-fins (It has a 25" wingspan) so it could fit inside the UGM-84's torpedo-launch canister.
Click to expand...
At least the fast-attack VLS units are also right at 25" diameter, too, so it wouldn't be a tough fit.
 
zjz said:
DTIC ADA195582: Feasibility Study on Determining the Effect of Testing on Harpoon Missile System Reliability.


See page 1-4, Figure 1.2 ..... it has the a caption, next to the Sub-capsule as "A/W99-1A" .... no idea if it is a designation for the capsule ....
Click to expand...

I did a Google search using "A/W99-1A" and get the following links :

1410-01-444-7577 - PRACTICE GUIDED MISSILE | WBParts

1410-01-444-7577 - PRACTICE GUIDED MISSILE : 1410PFC7, 1410-PFC7, 1657AS030441
www.wbparts.com www.wbparts.com

Practice Guided Missile - guided-missiles | SkyHawk Aviation Group

{% if doc.description %}{{doc.description}} – {% endif %}Accelerated Mobile Pages Project
myskyhawk.com myskyhawk.com


National Stock Number NSN 1410-01-444-7577, 1410014447577

1410-01-444-7577 - 1410014447577 NSN. Request Quotes, Buy Online. Get detailed information For National Stock Number (NSN) 1410-01-444-7577 - 1410014447577.
www.iso-group.com
 
zjz said:
This solid propellant should be the ones used to eject the nose cone and back end once the capsule broaches the water surface and just before the main booster ignites .......
Click to expand...

As far as I know the back end of the capsule doesn't blow-off once in surfaces and the rocket-motor used to shove aside the nose-cap after it's jettisoned is quite small. I'm sure that @Scott Kenny can provide a definitive answer.
 
NMaude said:
Are you referring to the Los Angeles class bow-section VLS cells?
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Yes. I'm assuming that the early Virginia-class VLS, the first 10 boats, also have VLS tubes that size.

Not sure about the diameter of the tubes inside the VPM or Ohio units, but I'd assume it's the same inside diameter.


NMaude said:
As far as I know the back end of the capsule doesn't blow-off once in surfaces and the rocket-motor used to shove aside the nose-cap after it's jettisoned is quite small. I'm sure that @Scott Kenny can provide a definitive answer.
Click to expand...
Sorry, never got to play with Tomahawks and Harpoons. I was a boomer sailor, big guns only!
 
NMaude said:
could've been developed in the 1990s by giving it folding-fins (It has a 25" wingspan)
Click to expand...
Scott Kenny said:
At least the fast-attack VLS units are also right at 25" diameter, too, so it wouldn't be a tough fit.
Click to expand...

I was checking a diagram of the VLA and I got the wingspan wrong, it's not 25" (Somehow I must've got confused with the strake-span of the Standard missile), it's 28.32" (Each fin is 7.11" wide and the airframe is 14.1" in diameter) so it would definitely need folding-fins.
 

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