About moderation and personal aggressiveness

[dan_inbox]

[NOTE from Skyblazer: Just so that it doesn't come "out of the blue", this post happened in a topic about De Monge projects, in the Early Aircraft section, in which I was telling member hesham — for the umpteenth time — that he should stop flaunting all kind of designations without a reference. I moved the whole thing here because it was parasiting the topic, and because I do not have a habit of removing posts just because I find unpalatable. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10809.msg333538.html#msg333538]

[size=8pt][NOTE from dan_inbox: Hmm. Skyblazer moved here my post about hostile manners in moderation, and it is a good place. But he failed to also move his post which triggered it. So I add it to put the discussion in perspective.

Talking about moderation and manners, I also edited the title chosen by Skyblazer for this new thread: "About hesham and moderation". Skyblazer made it appear as authored by me, but it's not. I wouldn't write like this, no more than I'd title it "about Skyblazer and moderation" J

It was called DMP-1.

Maybe it was... Maybe not. Do you have a link? A scan? Why do you post dozens of assertions like that in every topic, but without ever giving us a photo, an article, a reference? Are we just supposed to take your words for gospel truth, Hasan? I suppose I wouldn't be so demanding if certain forum members made such assertions, but in your case it's the sheer amount of them AND the fact that so many times in the past you misinterpreted documents that drive me to caution when it comes to you, sorry.

By doing a little bit of homework instead of lashing out frustration and hostile feelings which do not improve the forum's atmosphere, for ex simply by googling < De Monge DMP-1 >, one gets 10 pages of supporting evidence.
The first entry is https://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/dbj2mcl/planeurs-machines/planeur-fiche_0int.php?code=474
which gives a photo and 3-view, and as source cites the book "Le vol à voile et l'association française aérienne, by HOUARD, Georges (1923)".

My 2 cents: Leaving aside personal frustrations, likes and dislikes, plus a modicum of Fortitude and Civility won't hurt, especially when dealing with multiple cultural backgrounds. International collaboration is fantastically effective, but does come with quirks and different way of expressing oneself. C'est la vie.

 

[Stargazer]

Re: About hesham and moderation

By doing a little bit of homework instead of lashing out frustration and hostile feelings which do not improve the forum's atmosphere, for ex simply by googling < De Monge DMP-1 >, one gets 10 pages of supporting evidence.
(...)
International collaboration is fantastically effective, but does come with quirks and different way of expressing oneself. C'est la vie.

I was talking as a matter of principle, and it happened to be about this particular one-liner but it could have been about the hundred similar others that hesham posts daily all over the forum. This is something that has been notified to him a lot, both in the topics and in private message, but which he continues to do.

Flaunting designations out of the blue without any solid reference is not a practice that ought to be encouraged. It has nothing to do with "international collaboration", and the fact that the member is not a native English speaker has absolutely nothing to do with the habit of providing references to one's claims. For your information (and in case you didn't know, which I doubt) I am not a native English speaker either, nor are a vast majority of the moderators around here, I reckon.

I do not think the intervention of a moderator to try and get a member to take action should be seen as "lashing out frustration and hostile feelings." Also for your information, the member in question is classified as "Watched", and that was done during the months that I was away. A "Watched" member will always be under closer scrutiny than others, which is perfectly normal. Therefore I strongly urge you not to interfere with the work of moderators. And if you feel you absolutely need to do that sort of thing, I suggest two options: send a private message, or apply as a moderator... There is always a need for more, with currently over 50 reported posts that need to be examined.

 

[dan_inbox]

Re: About hesham and moderation

I do not think the intervention of a moderator to try and get a member to take action

Of course. Don't think we're stupid.
It's not what you were trying to achieve, it's how you went about it.

 

[Stargazer]

Re: About hesham and moderation

I do not think the intervention of a moderator to try and get a member to take action

Of course. Don't think we're stupid.
It's not what you were trying to achieve, it's how you went about it.

Think what you will. If I had hostile feelings against hesham, I wouldn't have taken over an hour just to prepare the post on the Boeing School of Aeronautics for him. Also, if you look at the post that irked you, you'll see I called hesham by his first name, something I don't usually do, and which was done as a sign that I was attempting to be amicable.

 

[hesham]

Of course,we are all a friends and Colleagues here.

 

[Archibald]

Throwing my 2 cents into that debate. I've been a member since 2008 and surely enough, to me Hesham is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

I often wonder, who he is, does he ever sleep, does he has a life outside Secret projects ? (this is definitively tongue-in-cheek, with a touch of curiosity).

Hesham, time to break the shyness and tell us. Are you alien ? superhuman ? a werewolf ? Something else ?

I'm member / been member of a dozen of aerospace (and DBZ, meh) forums since 2006, and truth be told, never seen such hyper-activity by any members, elsewhere.

We want to know ! Drop the mask ! (this thread might be a good start > https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12.msg325509.html#msg325509 Look at me. Did not revealed my real name, just some basic information).

 

[hesham]

My dear Archibald,

yes,I love Aviation very much,and I dream in it in my sleeping,so I have a lot of subjects,
and I have a hundreds of Projects to ask,but the problem is ; I didn't record the sources
for them.

 

[Stargazer]

I'm member / been member of a dozen of aerospace (and DBZ, meh) forums since 2006, and truth be told, never seen such hyper-activity by any members, elsewhere.

And I don't think there are any others, either. hesham has posted about 8,000 messages in less than four years on this forum, or 2,000 a year on average. That's about six per day, which almost sounds reasonable... Surely some of us do post six times a day, sometimes, but not every day for four years in a row!

And surely we all do appreciate many of his contributions, but also wish he posted less and in a more thoughtful manner, and took moderators' advice into account a bit more (though I will readily admit there has been a slight improvement at times, but it's not always steady). :

 

[Stargazer]

[size=8pt][NOTE from dan_inbox: Hmm. Skyblazer moved here my post about hostile manners in moderation, and it is a good place. But he failed to also move his post which triggered it. So I add it to put the discussion in perspective.

Well, I had provided a link to the original post for those who wanted to see it.

About moderation and personal aggressiveness

I also edited the title chosen by Skyblazer for this new thread: "About hesham and moderation". Skyblazer made it appear as authored by me, but it's not.

It's true that I hadn't thought of signing the red text, which I assumed people would take as being from a moderator and not from you. Thanks for clarifying it the way you did. I do insist, however, that there was no aggressiveness on my part, and that you have mistaken annoyance for aggressiveness.

Talking about moderation and manners

Well, I don't believe your earlier "Of course. Don't think we're stupid" to be a remarkable display of manners, nor was your "By doing a little bit of homework", especially considering the amount of time I have always spent on this forum researching the many different subjects I covered.

I wouldn't write like this, no more than I'd title it "about Skyblazer and moderation"

Fine. I wouldn't have any problem with that, though, if anyone thought my moderation necessitated a topic to be discussed. You can even change the title of this topic to that if you so wish, since you "started" it so you always will have control over the title in fine.

 

[Archibald]

Sometimes google is bizarre.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&ei=OnxgW5PoMoqyatjLocAN&q=%22hesham+hasan%22&oq=%22hesham+hasan%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i19k1l2j0i13i30i19k1l8.10061.13905.0.14341.7.7.0.0.0.0.106.598.6j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.7.594...0j0i7i30k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i203k1j0i10i203k1j0i7i10i30i19k1j0i8i7i10i30i19k1.0.O8ITsJYRL4w

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&ei=OnxgW5PoMoqyatjLocAN&q=%22hesham+hasan%22&oq=%22hesham+hasan%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i19k1l2j0i13i30i19k1l8.10061.13905.0.14341.7.7.0.0.0.0.106.598.6j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.7.594...0j0i7i30k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i203k1j0i10i203k1j0i7i10i30i19k1j0i8i7i10i30i19k1.0.O8ITsJYRL4w

 

[Stargazer]

Sometimes google is bizarre.

What do you mean, "bizarre"? Because of the many Hasan Heshams? I believe Hasan Hesham must be about as current in the Middle East region as "John Smith" or "Jacques Martin" are in ours. Or perhaps you refered to the length of the URLs?

 

[dan_inbox]

I do insist, however, that there was no aggressiveness on my part, and that you have mistaken annoyance for aggressiveness.

Annoyance is what you feel inside. (And you choose to make it visible, too. That's your right as a poster, even if it is maybe not the most effective stance for a moderator).
Aggressiveness refers to the tone of your tirade to Hesham:

Maybe it was... Maybe not. Do you have a link? A scan? Why do you post dozens of assertions like that in every topic, but without ever giving us a photo, an article, a reference? Are we just supposed to take your words for gospel truth, Hasan? I suppose I wouldn't be so demanding if certain forum members made such assertions, but in your case...

Isn't this ad hominem, attacking tone? It is also excessive and wrong: the assertion that he never posts photos or references is plain false as an overstatement. He does it less often than we'd all like, but definitely not "never".

That tirade is impolite, undiplomatic, singles out one person as less worthy of trust than others, and is excessive and false to boot. This is why I called it aggressive.

Stephane, I know that you wanted to prod him for more references, and we all agree on that. This is about HOW you do it. I can only re-state what was written already in 2014 (you may want to re-read that whole thread for hints)

Indeed. Stephane is so often right on the content, but much more unfriendly than necessary when expressing it.
This forum is blessed with a very good set of participants. We are generally a great crowd.
So the moderators here can be much more on the side of friendly shepherds rather than Kapos.

With all his good will and good deeds acknowledged, Stephane could indeed chill out more and get his panties in a twist less. He'd surely enjoy himself more, and we all would, too.

Raison sur le fond, mais bien trop crispé sur la manière. La patrie n'est pas en danger quand l'un de nous commet une petite erreur,
et tu n'es pas non plus le dernier rampart du temple. R E L A X !

I suppose I wouldn't be so demanding if certain forum moderators made such slip-ups, but in your case it's the sheer amount of them AND the fact that so many times in the past you lashed out unnecessarily that drives me to caution when it comes to you, sorry.

(How does this sentence feel? I hope that you recognize your own text. I don't mean it, I just wanted you to experience what you did... )

To say it my way: Accumulated frustration is NOT an excuse for excessive wording. Your style is often harsher than what you mean. Moreover, person-directed attacks are negative from any poster. Much more so from a moderator.

 

[Archibald]

Sometimes google is bizarre.

What do you mean, "bizarre"? Because of the many Hasan Heshams? I believe Hasan Hesham must be about as current in the Middle East region as "John Smith" or "Jacques Martin" are in ours. Or perhaps you refered to the length of the URLs?

You nailed it well. I'm trying to get a reaction from our Hesham ;D

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Dan about your defend on a principles,

and my forgetting to the sources is not a mistakes,but when I display a subject,I want from
the other members who has a large Infos to just remember me if they have this Info already.

 

[Jemiba]

If necessary, this discussion should be continued via PM, I think.