A French police vehicle to be identified

[Nico]

Hi Friends,
in my untidy files, I had a slide snapped by myself as long ago as sometime between 1967 and 1971. The subject is a French light utility truck (I think 4x4) in regular use by one of the local police force.
The vehicle was deprived of any enlightening inscription or logo and for about 40 years I was unable to reach a positive identification.
This car appeared rougly in the same class of Dodge WC-52 and I think could be a French derivative of the Beep-like ones built by ALM/Atlantic (Ateliers de Constuction Mécanique de l'Atlantique) like TF-4-20-SM or VCOM/VLRA, but lacking any photo of those designs I was unable to do a comparison.
There is some French friend with some suggestion about?
Nico

 

[lastdingo]

It looks as if it had a Land Rover base.

 

[Nick]

As the truck looks like a Land Rover I'd ask this question on a Land Rover forum and see what comes back. If it isn't a version of a Landie then some enthusiast will know what it really is and say so.

I suspect it's a French, Spanish or Belgian car built to the same requirement as a LandRover with LR parts, maybe a local version made by Simca or Matra.

 

[Stargazer]

As the truck looks like a Land Rover I'd ask this question on a Land Rover forum and see what comes back. If it isn't a version of a Landie then some enthusiast will know what it really is and say so.

I suspect it's a French, Spanish or Belgian car built to the same requirement as a LandRover with LR parts, maybe a local version made by Simca or Matra.

I do remember these from my young days and always figured they were Land Rovers. I don't think Matra was involved with this. Simca sounds like a more likely bet, but I'm only specialized in Renault, so I couldn't say!

 

[Michel Van]

is this a derivative of the Renault's TRM 500 ?

 

[Stargazer]

is this a derivative of the Renault's TRM 500 ?

No it's not. I think it's even earlier than the TRM 500. As I said earlier on, I'm rather knowledgeable in Renault (I have a website devoted to that company's history and models) and I'm 99% sure this police car clearly wasn't done by them.

 

[Nick]

I put the pic on a road-related forum and the general reply was 'ask a Land Rover forum'. There must be enthusiasts of old police vehicles in France so look for one of their sites.

Suggestions included local versions by; Minerva, Santana, Fiat, GIAT Industries, MOWAG. Maybe the makers no longer exist?

Panhard Auverlands look like Land Rovers! http://www.panhard.fr/anglais/A3/a31.php

 

[piko1]

i think that i saw similar vehicle in the Jeen's support vehicle's 1990-1991 i think see there if you can find the tom

 

[lastdingo]

Details (headlights, for example) don't match, but the Hotspur 4984 (Land Rove One Ten-based) comes close.

 

[Stargazer]

Details (headlights, for example) don't match, but the Hotspur 4984 (Land Rove One Ten-based) comes close.

Well, headlights are typically the thing that changes from one country to the next depending on local regulations. At the time of this vehicle, France was about the only country in Europe that continued using yellow headlights when everyone else had gone white... I remember that all the cars we exported to America had to have their headlights changed to comply to the local standards. So if the frame is similar, it's likely Land Rover based...

 

[lastdingo]

I meant the positioning of the lights. The large circular headlights are normal, but Land Rovers have two distinctive smaller lights as well - even in most armoured vehicle versions - and this example doesn't.

 

[Rickshaw]

I would hazard a guess, influenced by but not a Landrover itself. More than likely some sort of local copy.

 

[Nico]

Dear Friend,
finally, after various test, I obtained a poor scansion of the slide with the misterious Land Rover-class vehicle.
Squeezing my brain, I can tell that the slide could be a bit...younger, in a bracket between 1967 and 1971. The place seem to be definitely Paris, as the last numbers of the licence plate of the car are 75. On-bord there is an uniformed policeman and the colorours of the car are those of the Compagnies Republicaines de Sécurite, but with no markings at all. I have very vagues memories of vehicles of the same types together with the more usual Police and Gendarmerie Renault and Citroen light trucks. I can also add that nobody seemed to pay attention to the vehicle as it wasnot a rare prototype but an usual one.
Moreover, I can agree that my previous identification with some early version of the VLAR TPK was wrong as the VLAR is a larger 2,5 ton class vehicle. The chassis of the mystery car seems really to be that of the Land Rover, perhaps a licence-built Belgian or Spanish version with a French body... The very funny fact is that apparently no trace of it remains today!
The derivative of Renault TRM-500 suggested by Michel is to be ruled out, as it was built in 1976, several years later. The Renault derivative is surely a licence-version of the FIAT 1107 (prototypes X1-11, commercially FIAT 1107 'La Nuova Campagnola' and AR.73 and AR.76 for armed forces).
Thanks to all friends for the large number of posts!
Nico

 

[Stargazer]

You are right about the Renault TRM 500. Here is a translation from an article published in Losange N°1.

More about Renault's TRM 500 contender:

In 1976, the French army launched a program to renew its all-terrain vehicles fleet, most of which were Jeep Willys types assembled under license in France. All French carmakers offered vehicles based on foreign models. Peugeot won the contract, while Citroën's Volkswagen Iltis spin-off (C44) and Renault's Fiat Campagnola variant were soon forgotten. However, prototypes of both are still on display at the musée de l’Ecole d’Application du Train in Tours.

About 20 Renault TRM 500 prototypes were built. TRM stood for "Toutes Roues Motrices" (all-wheel drive) and 500 corresponded to the vehicle's payload (500 kgs). Apart from a few minor modifications, the 3.77-meter Campagnola had been copied entirely. The TRM 500 weighed 1,670 kgs and reached a top speed of 115 kms per hour on asphalt-covered roads. Its handling qualities on rough soil, one of the Army's foremost demands, were outstanding. Such a car is supposed to climb a 30% slope, even 60% in claw-type maneuvers, with a lateral inclination of 30%. It must also be able to progress in 50-centimeter deep waters. None of these was a problem for the Renault vehicle.

The forward compartment hosted a Type 829 Renault engine, the famed 2-liter, 92 hp gasoline engine with 5,000 rpm speed. The slow speeds required on heavy terrain implied that the cooling circuit's capacity be increased to 8.8 liters. The fuel tank contained 57 liters of gasoline.

The TRM 500 had a freestanding steel body with reinforced floor in some places. The sliding windows on both doors and their frames could be removed. The vehicle had a limp overcoat that could be rolled backwards. The windscreen could be pushed down forward over the bonnet; the spare wheel was fitted to the rear door.

All four wheels were suspended independently, each with its own torsion bars and dampers (two at the front, four at the back). All four brakes had power drums. Finally the electric circuit functioned in 24 volts.

Despite its qualities, the French army prefered the Mercedes G-based Peugeot P4. Fiat launched the corresponding Campagnola model in 1974 and produced it until 1987.

 

[Rickshaw]

You are right about the Renault TRM 500. Here is a translation from an article published in Losange N°1.

The vehicle had a limp overcoat that could be rolled backwards.

Now, that would be interesting to see! ;D

 

[klem]

RENAULT-SINPAR 4x4 S 626 E or R2065), called (break Sinpar) This unknown model produced less than 500 copies between 1963 and 1973 especially for the army / CRS (les Compagnies Républicaines de Sécurité) as a French alternative to the Land Rover . There were two versions, the first version (4X2) R2065 and the second version (4X4) R2087.

 

[BlackBat242]

11 1/2 years late, but good job of uncovering it.

 

[riggerrob]

When you compare that French Police vehicle with a Land Rover .... it reminds us of the Max Holste Brossard airplane. Apparently the French Army wanted to buy some deHavilland of Canada DHC-2 Beaver STOL airplanes for battlefield liason during fighting in Algeria. Paris said "NON" so the French Army contracted with Hurel-Dubois to build the Brossard instead. Brossard has the same P&WC R-985 radial engine as a Beaver, but simpler landing gear and bigger doors. Overall, the Brossard looks like what the fictional Beaver Mark IV should have become.

 

[Archibald]

"Broussard". "Brossard" is a brand of cake and biscuits, as in Papy Brossard (the closest France has from a Colonel Sanders)

Histoire – Brossard

"papy brossard - Google Search

 

[klem]

Well, then we can take a Broussard plane to go to Brossard (QC) and eat brossard cake.