"The Mysterious Ryan Model 147S-2"

[aim9xray]

While re-reading William Wagner's "Lightning Bugs and other Reconnaissance Drones" recently, I took a closer look at the photo on page 206. CDR Ed Martin (a former Vietnam POW) is pictured with ADM Sharp (Ret.) and Robert C. Jackson (President of Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical. The photo was taken sometime in 1973 after CMDR Martin was repatriated to the United States.

Behind them is a display board of half-models depicting the Model 124 Firebee, the [formerly classified] Model 147 reconnaissance series, and the [formerly Top Secret] Model 154 very high altitude reconnaissance RPV, all of which have since been publicly documented.

Except for one. The small double-delta in the middle of the board. I would tend to believe that this was an unflown design - except for the fact that every other design on the the board has flown. In addition, I ran across this "family portrait" artwork showing again the family with the new addition, which I have reason to believe was designated the 147SK2.

The designation would have you believe that this was a development of the Model 147SK (a tailored Model 147S for the US Navy), however, TRA has had no trouble with mangling their designation system for competitive or security purposes. Examples include:

124I - Model 147SC derivative for Israel.
410B - Model 350 Proof of Concept testbed (lead to BQM-145 contract).

Has anyone information that might tie in?

TIA, Craig

 

[Stargazer]

Fascinating!!! Although I've had William Wagner's book for 15 years, I'd never noticed that particular detail. What makes you think this is a Model 147 derivative, and where did you get the designation 147SK2 from? (if that's not confidential of course).

As for "Model 410B", this was in fact the Model 350 POC but you are right in saying that the "410B" designation was used for competitive or security purposes as a way to deceive and distract attention to the real nature of the program. (for those who'd like to know more about these, please refer to my website on Rutan: http://stargazer2006.online.fr/menu.htm then click on UNMANNED & OPV for more on the Model 324 Scarab, the Model 350 Peregrine/BQM-145A Specter, and the Model 410).

 

[Stargazer]

As a side note, the closest Teledyne Ryan I have to the mysterious RPV is this, the Model 262 Manta Ray, but it's smaller. Perhaps the ducted prop and smaller size indicate a sub-scale proof of concept vehicle for the "real deal"??

I also include a Teledyne Ryan poster from the early 1990s listing all then publicly known models. Of course the mysterious model isn't there...

 

[aim9xray]

I have some belated (and somewhat uninformative) followup...

I have seen images of a desk model of this configuration with the title 147SK-2 on the base (which I am not at liberty to repost). (It's possible that the base was swapped at some time in the past with another 147 series model, but I've never seen the "SK-2" used elsewhere, so I discount the possibility.)

Attached are two images from a 1971 TRA/RCA brochure for a Multi-Mission RPV Study. Three futuristic designs are illustrated on the cover and with three-views. Note that the paste-up person has inverted the forward view of the Low Altitude Penetrator (which looks like our mystery bird).

The Model 262 Manta may have been derived from this design; it certainly followed it by a number of years (late 1970s).

 

[fightingirish]

Wind tunnel model of the Ryan Model 147S-2 low-altitude drone.

https://flic.kr/p/dT1iAp

View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/8453481695/

https://flic.kr/p/dT1izD

View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/8453481651/

Larger pictures at San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives, posted there on 7th February 2013.


Dear mods, please feel free to move this post to a suitable topic.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Seems likely that the designation was Model 147S-2 (USAF) and Model 147SK-2 (US Navy)

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Ryan delta wing RPV identified as "Model 147S-2" from SDASM Archives.

 

[Stargazer]

Very interesting. Looks like the same unidentifed type that appeared previously in other topics (see composite picture below):

 

[fightingirish]

I have some belated (and somewhat uninformative) followup...
I have seen images of a desk model of this configuration with the title 147SK-2 on the base (which I am not at liberty to repost). (It's possible that the base was swapped at some time in the past with another 147 series model, but I've never seen the "SK-2" used elsewhere, so I discount the possibility.)
Attached are two images from a 1971 TRA/RCA brochure for a Multi-Mission RPV Study. Three futuristic designs are illustrated on the cover and with three-views. Note that the paste-up person has inverted the forward view of the Low Altitude Penetrator (which looks like our mystery bird).
The Model 262 Manta may have been derived from this design; it certainly followed it by a number of years (late 1970s).

TRA 5177 model 147SK2 and other concepts
Image from the Ryan Aeronautical Negative Collection
Repository: San Diego Air and Space Museum Archive

Larger picture at San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives, posted there on 15th February 2013.
Link:

https://flic.kr/p/dV339t

View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/8476452947

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Here's a larger version of this artwork which was cover art on a magazine called "National Defense".

Thanks to Paul for smoothing out the image for posting.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Orionblamblam]

Tony Chong has another great article up, this time on the Ryan 147S-2:

http://ghostmodeler.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-mysterious-ryan-model-147s-2.html

Buckets of art, drawings, photos.

 

[hesham]

My dear Scott,


the Ryan Model 147 SK-2 or S-2 had many versions,that was mentioned in
Jane's all the World's Aircraft,various editions,but with no details.

https://flic.kr/p/dT1izD

View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49487266@N07/8453481651

 

[Grey Havoc]

From Tony Chong's article, some of the potential launch platforms:

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Split Ryan Model 147S-2 posts to own topic.

 

[jsport]

Thank you Hesham.
Wow, what a depiction. how folks have forgotten. A Blended Delta Body for all seasons (high speed, medium speed, CAS, fighter bomber, un/manned) Where is Teledyne Ryan when you need them?

dont answer that.

 

[hesham]

Thank you Jsport,


and I saw this drawing before in colors form,I will search about it in my files.

 

[jsport]

Thank you Jsport,


and I saw this drawing before in colors form,I will search about it in my files.

You are welcome. Colors would be way cool.

Meant Tubal Ryan (his name) He must have had a Masonic pater. ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Claude_Ryan

 

[Stargazer]

Tubal Ryan (his name) He must have had a Masonic pater. ???

Probably hated his first name as he never used it in any official document. Everywhere he appeared as "T. Claude Ryan", emphasizing his second name instead/

 

[jsport]

Tubal Ryan (his name) He must have had a Masonic pater. ???

Probably hated his first name as he never used it in any official document. Everywhere he appeared as "T. Claude Ryan", emphasizing his second name instead/

Roger copy Skyblazer, would be difficult to go w/ even more so today.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

https://flic.kr/p/TSqcho

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/34044740610/

https://flic.kr/p/Tb1MyS

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/33587513414/

https://flic.kr/p/UskBs8

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/34428607215/

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

https://flic.kr/p/TQKn9S

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/34025847950/

 

[Boxman]

An unbelievable wealth of photos were recently posted by the San Diego Air & Space Museum (SDASM) at Flickr recently. I'm almost at the point of delirium looking them over and trying to tag, label, etc., as many as I can. . .

Here's another Ryan 147 SK-2 desk model:

https://flic.kr/p/UxSWpW

View: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/34491301956/

 

[LowObservable]

Somewhere in that trove is a painting of an 147S-2 coming off an A-6 or EA-6.

 

[Boxman]

Somewhere in that trove is a painting of an 147S-2 coming off an A-6 or EA-6.

Here's that illustration:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/34126245820/

And here's another of an A-6 bringing a couple aboard ship:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/34430719515/

 

[TomS]

Hard to imagine that the A-6 would actually have enough bring-back weight to land with two of those and that big pod. (Max around 8000 lbs, including fuel)

BTW, the pod looks like PAVE TACK, which the A-6 never carried. It's hard to imagine a mission that would call for both stand-off recce drones and a laser targeting pod. Maybe it's something else associated with the drone itself? It sure seems to have an EO turret, but I could be wrong.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Nice aft end shot of the design in the wind tunnel:

https://flic.kr/p/UktnbL

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/34350904652/in/photostream/


And an overhead image:

https://flic.kr/p/Ti87WW

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/33667964754/in/photostream/


Love this stuff! Mark

 

[LowObservable]

The pod is more likely to be a datalink.

 

[TomcatViP]

Datalink and optical guidance
The drone is called a "low altitude penetrator".

 

[TomS]

The pod is more likely to be a datalink.

That's what I'd figure, but the optical turret is pretty clear.

Datalink and optical guidance
The drone is called a "low altitude penetrator".

My understanding is that most recce flights by the Teledyne Ryan RPVs like Firefly were flown on preprogrammed paths, not actually remotely operated. This one would have been similar, presumably.

 

[Stargazer]

Additional images of the Teledyne Ryan 147S(K)2 I haven't seen in this thread: