SSN collision in Indo-Pacific (USS Connecticut)

[_Del_]

Pacific Fleet release: "The Seawolf-class fast-attack submarine USS Connecticut (SSN 22) struck an object while submerged on the afternoon of Oct. 2, while operating in international waters in the Indo-Pacific region. The safety of the crew remains the Navy’s top priority. There are no life-threatening injuries.

The submarine remains in a safe and stable condition. USS Connecticut’s nuclear propulsion plant and spaces were not affected and remain fully operational. The extent of damage to the remainder of the submarine is being assessed. The U.S. Navy has not requested assistance. The incident will be investigated.”



Not the first time something like this has happened, but probably isn't ideal timing with the current situation re: Taiwan


USNI is the only one I see carrying this, and they don't have anything of substance outside of the short release.

UPDATED: Attack Submarine USS Connecticut Suffers Underwater Collision in South China Sea - USNI News

This post has been updated with additional details on the injuries to the crew of USS Connecticut and the location of the collision. Almost a dozen sailors have been injured after a U.S. nuclear attack submarine hit an unknown underwater object in the South China Sea, USNI News has learned. The...

news.usni.org

 

[sferrin]

Definitely not the first time.

 

[_Del_]

That probably won't buff out

 

[jeffb]

You should see the other guy.

 

[Deleted member 2278]

Maybe it was an overboard and sunken container that attained neutral buoyancy...somehow. Yeah, I'm not buying it either.

Is it just me or does the timing of a Seawolf suddenly needing yard time raise a red flag?

 

[TomS]

Maybe it was an overboard and sunken container that attained neutral buoyancy...somehow. Yeah, I'm not buying it either.

Is it just me or does the timing of a Seawolf suddenly needing yard time raise a red flag?

It's just you.

There are any number of things she might have hit. My money is on some sort of terrain feature, like San Francisco.

If it was a collision with a Chinese vessel, they would be screaming bloody murder about it by now.

Edit: pretty good article from the Guardian (citing a version of a Washington Post story that I can't find right now). They cite Navy sources confirming that whatever Connecticut hit wasn't Chinese and wasn't another sub.

US nuclear-powered submarine hits submerged object in South China Sea

Attack class submarine USS Connecticut hit an unknown object on routine operations and is in a ‘safe and stable’ condition, US navy says

www.google.com

 

[Deleted member 2278]

It's just you.

Ouch. Put me in my place didn't ya.

It is entirely possible that it was another San Francisco incident, perhaps even likely but you will excuse me if a "navy source" ruling out a collision with another vessel doesn't in fact rule it out for me. Pinch of salt and all that.

Whether enemy action or Sod's (Murphy's) Law, the timing is still noteworthy. An operational Seawolf would be handy in the Pacific about now.

 

[sferrin]

It's just you.

Ouch. Put me in my place didn't ya.

It is entirely possible that it was another San Francisco incident, perhaps even likely but you will excuse me if a "navy source" ruling out a collision with another vessel doesn't in fact rule it out for me. Pinch of salt and all that.

Whether enemy action or Sod's (Murphy's) Law, the timing is still noteworthy. An operational Seawolf would be handy in the Pacific about now.

Like the F-22, it's a shame we didn't buy more of them. Carter isn't an SSN anymore, Connecticut out of commission, and Seawolf all by herself. (If she's not tied up at the pier.)

 

[TomS]

It's just you.

Ouch. Put me in my place didn't ya.

It is entirely possible that it was another San Francisco incident, perhaps even likely but you will excuse me if a "navy source" ruling out a collision with another vessel doesn't in fact rule it out for me. Pinch of salt and all that.

Whether enemy action or Sod's (Murphy's) Law, the timing is still noteworthy. An operational Seawolf would be handy in the Pacific about now.

Yes, it's unfortunate timing. But the jump to "they are probably lying" is really unhelpful.

It also doesn't actually jibe with observed reality. I can't think of an actual collision involving a US warship in the last 20-plus years that wasn't acknowledged very promptly. Because there is no upside in denying an event that the other party will also know about and be able to disclose when it suits them.

 

[Deleted member 2278]

Well in fairness, I haven't really jumped anywhere. I'm just not willing to rule anything out. There is a difference. A wry dose of scepticism (cynicism?) for the official line is no bad thing IMO. There were certainly enough unexplained Sub-bumps during the Cold War to justify some doubt. Speculation is no crime.

 

[TomS]

Fair. I was maybe a bit harsh. My feeds today have been filled with claims that they hit anything from a Chinese submarine to Cthulhu to space aliens.

In the realm of semi-official news, the sub is now reportedly in Guam waters. Guessing they might be waiting for daylight to bring her into port.

Submarine, sailors safe on Guam after South China Sea mishap

The USS Connecticut has pulled into Guam waters following a mishap in the South China Sea that injured 11 sailors.

www.postguam.com

 

[Deleted member 2278]

.....claims that they hit anything from a Chinese submarine to Cthulhu to space aliens

Now that I will readily, happily rule out! How do you pronounce that anyway? I'm glad the sailors are safe. That's the main thing.

 

[yasotay]

Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information. It would seem more difficult to keep that level of information security in this day and age, but if the US Navy and the PLAN are indeed "practicing" on each other it is more feasible, that the incident would remain close hold.

... now where is my tin foil? You know they are going to microwave my brain now.

 

[TomS]

Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information. It would seem more difficult to keep that level of information security in this day and age, but if the US Navy and the PLAN are indeed "practicing" on each other it is more feasible, that the incident would remain close hold.

... now where is my tin foil? You know they are going to microwave my brain now.

Thing is, the Chinese are publicly demanding information on what happened, because they claim it's in their area of interest. If they were involved and there was some tacit agreement to suppress that information, they probably wouldn't be yelling so loudly about it.

 

[sferrin]

Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information.

They talk about at least on of those here:

Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage: Sontag, Sherry, Drew, Christopher, Drew, Annette Lawrence: 9781610393584: Amazon.com: Books

Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage [Sontag, Sherry, Drew, Christopher, Drew, Annette Lawrence] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage

www.amazon.com

 

[sferrin]

Okay out of my league when it comes to boats and such, but I agree it is most likely a navigation error into terrain. That said, and at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I have been told that back in the Cold War days the US Navy and the Soviet Navy had a number of instances of "bumping into each other", that remained official state information. It would seem more difficult to keep that level of information security in this day and age, but if the US Navy and the PLAN are indeed "practicing" on each other it is more feasible, that the incident would remain close hold.

... now where is my tin foil? You know they are going to microwave my brain now.

Thing is, the Chinese are publicly demanding information on what happened, because they claim it's in their area of interest. If they were involved and there was some tacit agreement to suppress that information, they probably wouldn't be yelling so loudly about it.

"NOYFB" - US Navy

 

[kaiserd]

Fair. I was maybe a bit harsh. My feeds today have been filled with claims that they hit anything from a Chinese submarine to Cthulhu to space aliens.

In the realm of semi-official news, the sub is now reportedly in Guam waters. Guessing they might be waiting for daylight to bring her into port.

Submarine, sailors safe on Guam after South China Sea mishap

The USS Connecticut has pulled into Guam waters following a mishap in the South China Sea that injured 11 sailors.

www.postguam.com

Just as well they didn’t see Cthulhu before they hit him…

And does seeing him after you’ve run him over still drive you mad?

 

[robunos]

Just as well they didn’t see Cthulhu before they hit him…

Someone did . . .


"Briden looked back and went mad, laughing shrilly as he kept on laughing at intervals till death found him one night in the cabin whilst Johansen was wandering deliriously."

cheers,
Robin.

 

[DWG]

the Chinese are publicly demanding information on what happened, because they claim it's in their area of interest.

*Facepalm*

 

[DWG]

most likely a navigation error into terrain

It doesn't even need a navigation error, plenty of undocumented seamounts out there still. IIRC the San Francisco incident correctly, that seamount wasn't documented - the command crew were pulled not because they knew it was there, but because their transit plan wasn't cautious enough.

 

[In_A_Dream]

It's just you.

There are any number of things she might have hit. My money is on some sort of terrain feature, like San Francisco.

If it was a collision with a Chinese vessel, they would be screaming bloody murder about it by now.

Edit: pretty good article from the Guardian (citing a version of a Washington Post story that I can't find right now). They cite Navy sources confirming that whatever Connecticut hit wasn't Chinese and wasn't another sub.

US nuclear-powered submarine hits submerged object in South China Sea

Attack class submarine USS Connecticut hit an unknown object on routine operations and is in a ‘safe and stable’ condition, US navy says

www.google.com

The Navy hasn't always been very "forthcoming" when it comes to Submarine affairs.

Plenty of Cold War stories from submariners to substantiate that, and we are in the midst of a new Cold War.

 

[uk 75]

This sub has form...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1446259884652175360

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/NavalInstitute/status/1446259884652175360

and Polar Bears have been heading South

 

[yasotay]

Like polar bears, whales have little regard for right of way and freedom of navigation.

 

[muttly]

With all the sonar and other equipment on these subs why didn't they
see what was around them before the collision .

 

[Fluff]

With all the sonar and other equipment on these subs why didn't they
see what was around them before the collision .

Sonar is like shining a torch, everyone can see you from 50 miles away. I'm not sure what other equipment you mean.

AFAIK subs run blind - thats why Navies have mapping ships.

 

[muttly]

I was thinking passive sonar and had not considered everyone picking up
your own sonar . Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I didn't know
they ran blind.

 

[Archibald]

They must have an electronic breakdown... this is what happens when connectic, cut.
(runs for cover)

 

[Deleted member 2278]

There is no cover in the world after that.....

 

[Fluff]

They must have an electronic breakdown... this is what happens when connectic, cut.
(runs for cover)

That definitely wins a prize......

 

[TomS]

Surprised we haven't gotten a picture yet; there are rumors that the bow dome is pretty much wiped out, which is what you'd expect in a CSIT (Controlled Steaming Into Terrain -- a term I just made up)

Some enterprising Internet open-source IMINT types think they may have found her on the surface headed for Guam. Resolution too low to know for sure and definitely too poor to even guess at damage.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1447174736157593600

View: https://twitter.com/pjonesbilly/status/1447174736157593600

 

[In_A_Dream]

Navy Not Sure What USS Connecticut Struck in the South China Sea, Beijing Accuses U.S. of Cover-Up - USNI News

The U.S. Navy still isn’t positive what one of its most powerful attack submarines hit in the South China Sea, as repair assessments continue in Guam, four sources familiar with the results of the preliminary investigations told USNI News this week. As of Tuesday afternoon, the undersea object...

news.usni.org

 

[publiusr]

Maybe an artificial guyot-seamount? China has done huge construction projects-maybe dump rocks in a trench a sub might use. Think dragon's teeth for subs...and they got lucky. Azorian from the bottom up.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Might be something to that.

 

[aonestudio]

Stefany: Repairs to USS Connecticut Could Cause ‘Perturbations’ in Public Shipyards - USNI News

Unplanned repairs to the damaged attack submarine USS Connecticut (SSN-22) could disrupt the backlog of planned ship maintenance in the public naval yards, Jay Stefany, acting assistant secretary of the Navy for research, development and acquisition, told Congress on Thursday. The Navy’s four...

news.usni.org

 

[aonestudio]

Statement regarding USS Connecticut (SSN 22) Command Investigation

The command investigation for USS Connecticut (SSN 22) has been submitted to Commander, U.S. 7th Fleet for review and endorsement. The investigation determined that Connecticut grounded on an

www.c7f.navy.mil

Investigation Concludes USS Connecticut Grounded on Uncharted Seamount in South China Sea - USNI News

This post has been updated with a statement from U.S. 7th Fleet. Investigators have determined USS Connecticut (SSN-22) hit an uncharted seamount that grounded the nuclear attack submarine on the underwater feature in the South China Sea Navy, USNI News has learned. The results of the command...

news.usni.org

 

[Grey Havoc]

China: US lacking ‘transparency and responsibility’ on submarine accident

China on Tuesday said the United States lacked “transparency and responsibility” after the U.S. Navy admitted one of its submarines had struck an underwater mountain in the South China Sea last mon…

thehill.com

 

[martinbayer]

I vaguely recall a techno novel (by Clancy or Cussler?) that begins with a US nuclear submarine in the Pacific randomly running into the trunk of a redwood tree destined for Japan for use in the construction of a ceremonial shrine that fell off a freighter during a storm...

 

[Foo Fighter]

I know it but cannot get the title. I have a feeling it the clancy novel where computers in waaall st are wiped out causing the market to crash. At the end of the novel, the now president Ryan say's, "If there is no record it never happened, we reset to just before the crash".

 

[aonestudio]

Navy Fires 2 Top Officers of Submarine Damaged in Collision.

The Navy said Thursday it fired the two senior officers of a nuclear-powered attack submarine that was damaged in an underwater collision last month in the South China Sea. A sailor who served as a senior enlisted adviser to the commander and the executive officer was also removed from his position

The actions were taken by Vice Adm. Karl Thomas, commander of the U.S. 7th Fleet, based in Japan.

“Thomas determined sound judgement, prudent decision-making and adherence to required procedures in navigation planning, watch team execution and risk management could have prevented the incident,” according to a 7th Fleet statement.

As a result, the statement said Thomas relieved Cmdr. Cameron Aljilani as commanding officer, Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Cashin as executive officer, and Master Chief Sonar Technician Cory Rodgers as chief of the boat, “due to loss of confidence.” The chief of the boat is the senior enlisted adviser to the commander and the executive officer.

Navy fires 2 top officers of submarine damaged in collision

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Navy said Thursday it fired the two senior officers of a nuclear-powered attack submarine that was damaged in an underwater collision last month in the South China Sea.

apnews.com

USS Connecticut CO, XO, COB Relieved Over Collision in South China Sea ‘Due to Loss of Confidence’ - USNI News

The commander, executive officer and senior enlisted sailor for attack submarine USS Connecticut (SSN-22) have been fired following the results of an investigation into the Oct. 2 underwater collision in the South China Sea, the Navy announced on Thursday. Connecticut commanding officer Cmdr...

news.usni.org

 

[Deleted member 2278]

Well that was inevitable. One wonders what the incentive to be a sub driver is with a draconian sword of Damocles in every Admiral's pocket. How exactly are you meant to avoid an uncharted seamount? Perhaps Karl can show us all how it is done?

What's American for scapegoat? Fall guy I guess?