Aeromarine Projects and Prototypes

[Dynoman]

The cabin of the Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co.'s 'Havana - Porto Rico' Airliner. The design was in development with scheduled service beginning in the summer of 1923. However, after the loss of the Columbus in January 1923 and the disappearance at sea of pilot's Tibbs and Thomas, in February 1923, the airlines financial future was in turmoil. None of the lost aircraft (including the Ponce DeLeon and the Santa Maria damaged due to storms) were replaced.

Interestingly, I have a document that gives system descriptions and F-5L specification's for this design, however the fuselage length was unchanged. The cockpit was moved forward in an enclosure similar to the Aeromarine Polar Bear observation cabin.

This design is not mentioned in any of the text's (outside of plans in newspapers of the era), that I have seen, other than the ones I have found in the Smithsonian.

 

[hesham]

Nice pictures.

 

[Dynoman]

Plans for a 26 passenger seaplane that would have doubled the airlines largest passenger load. I do not have any three views or additional information outside of the newspaper article.
It appears that the aircraft was completely conceptual as the airline shut down later the same year as the article date (April 19, 1923).

 

[hesham]

Great find Dynoman,


it didn't mention in Aerofiles site;


http://www.aerofiles.com/_aeromar.html

 

[Stargazer]

Cool find. I thought I had every known Aeromarine project listed, but I guess one learns every day... That's what makes this forum so nice! Thanks a lot Dynoman.

 

[Dynoman]

I have included a couple of pages from the Smithsonian describing the Aeromarine Havana-Porto Rico aircraft.

 

[Dynoman]

Here is the other page

 

[Dynoman]

The overall dimensions were the same as the Model 75 (in fact its indicated as a Model 75 at the top of the page). I modified a picture of one of Aeromarine's Model 75's with a forward cockpit and a ventilation system further across the top of the fuselage. Also, I widened the fuselage to the edge of the chine to accommodate the third seat abreast and added the "Havana to Porto Rico" and "San Juan" on the side of the fuselage.
(About the Model 75 see here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9303.msg84578.html#msg84578)

 

[Dynoman]

Unknown Aeromarine Land Plane- Passenger and Cargo aircraft from Skyways Magazine article of Ted Koch, April 1999. Does anyone have additional information on the design? I have not found a model number or description among the Aeromarine aircraft available on this site, others, or in the literature. This aircraft in the Skyways article was referred to as a proposed passenger aircraft.

 

[hesham]

Great find Dynoman,

and I would ask if this project related to this Aeromarine design;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18433.msg177197.html#msg177197

 

[Dynoman]

Aeromarine AT Army Transport from Skyways April 1999.

 

[Dynoman]

Great question hesham. The aircraft your referencing was a four-engine seaplane, however I don't know if this was a later version or not. It looks like a different design with lines similar to the NBS-1 designs Aeromarine built under license with Martin.

 

[hesham]

Thank you Dynoman.

 

[Dynoman]

Aeromarine Sea Messenger from Skyways April 1999.

 

[Stargazer]

Aeromarine AT Army Transport from Skyways April 1999.

Nice! Thanks a lot! I had no picture of that project.

 

[Stargazer]

Very nice!

 

[Stargazer]

Splendid!! Aeromarine is one of my pet vintage companies, and you certainly made my day today!

 

[Dynoman]

Skyblazer...I'm still looking for drawings of the Aeromarine proposals for the Type III single-seat Pursuit aircraft, Type IV attack aircraft (I believe is the PG-1), Type V Pursuit two-seat aircraft, Type VI multi-engine three seat ground attack aircraft. All were proposals submitted to the Army, but no drawings as of yet.

 

[Dynoman]

Aeromarine submitted a bid to build the Thomas Morse MB-3 for the McCook Field in February 1921, but I think that this was the Type I pursuit aircraft. So still no Type III (unless its the same design, i.e. single-seat pursuit aircraft). Any ideas?

 

[hesham]

Hi Dynoman,

but the PG-1 had a drawing.

 

[Dynoman]

Great 3-view hesham...I think that the PG-1 was Aeromarine's entry for the Type IV attack aircraft requirement, although the aircraft was already in development when they responded to the bid. Types III, V, and VI are the one's I've never see before. Is there any information on these?

 

[Jos Heyman]

The Aeromarine A.T. Transport is a new one to me. Was it just an unsuccessful design or did it evolve into hardware.
Perhaps we could have a scan of the Skyways April 1999 article.

 

[Dynoman]

Jos, under the Circular Proposal #2354 for the USAAS there was a requirement for an Army Transport. There were, however, no official USAAS designations or Type categories for transports at the time. L.W.F., Huff-Daland, Boeing, and Elias received contracts for the specification, unfortunately none were built. I think Aeromarine's AT may have been one of the proposals for this or came a little later.

 

[Dynoman]

Two others that would be great to find drawings for are the Corps Observation- Liberty Powered Aeromarine design known as C.O.-L and the 'Aeromarine Dusting Aircraft" or ADA. ADA has the Aeromarine drawing No. 18287.

 

[hesham]

My dear Jos,

the Aeromarine A.T. was old entry in my files also there is anther canard pusher seaplane,maybe a
project,but I will try to remember from where I got them ?.

 

[hesham]

A.T.;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromarine_AT

 

[Stargazer]

A.T.;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromarine_AT

As you may have noticed, the source for this Wikipedia article is a follow-up Skyways article to the one Dynoman got the A.T. picture from.
So I guess it would be neat to get a hand on that particular issue to collect a handful more profile views!

 

[hesham]

As you may have noticed, the source for this Wikipedia article is a follow-up Skyways article to the one Dynoman got the A.T. picture from.
So I guess it would be neat to get a hand on that particular issue to collect a handful more profile views!

That's right Skyblazer,

and also I am sure the anther project (canard pusher seaplane) was mentioned in a book,
but what was it ?.

 

[Dynoman]

Hesham, you may be thinking of the original Boland aircraft that was acquired by Aeromarine when Inglis Uppercu bought the Boland Aerplane and Motor company after Frank Boland died in Trinidad. The canard equipped seaplane was the first Aeromarine airplane offered by the new company in 1914.

 

[hesham]

Hi Dynoman,

frankly I don't know,but I will check,also Aeromarine had a little know aircraft called
Twin-Hydro,clearly it was a seaplane.

 

[Stargazer]

Here is my reworking/enhancing of the Sea Messenger profile:

 

[Stargazer]

Here's my enhanced/reworked version of the AT profile:

 

[Dynoman]

Skyblazer...Excellent art work!!
I'll try and scan the other two when I get close to a scanner.

 

[Dynoman]

Magnificent!!

 

[burunduk]

Dynoman, Skyblazer, thank you for the very nice scheme.

Skyblazer, you have wrote "It was never built".
But according to Aerofiles one Messenger was built:

Messenger 1924 = 1pOB; Lawrance L-4; span: 20'0" length: 17'9". Experimental variable-chord wings. POP: 1.

Is there a mistake or it is something different aircraft?

 

[hesham]

Nice work my dear Skyblazer,

and welcome your return my dear Burunduk,and maybe the Sea Messenger differs from
Messenger.

 

[Dynoman]

Burunduk, the Aeromarine Messenger was actually a different aircraft. The Aeromarine company began conducting research into variable camber aircraft and attempted to modify and demonstrate several aircraft with a variable camber system. The Sperry Messenger land-based aircraft, designed by the Engineering Division of the US Army Air Corp and developed by Verville-Sperry in 1921, was used as a test bed for the variable camber system (among others). This aircraft was known as the Aeromarine Messenger.

The Sea Messenger was a design that was unbuilt seaplane for a single-seat military/sportsman aircraft market.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the Aeromarine LDB was Army Bomber aircraft of 1923,two designs but was never
built,and remained a projects.

 

[Stargazer]

Hey, Dynoman, just happened on this topic now... :-[

Sure don't want to rain on your parade (especially since you did a really good job of it) BUT... you spelt it "JAUN" instead of JUAN !!!

 

[Dynoman]

Thanks for noticing...I'll try and find that picture again and make the change. Its amazing what a simple program like MS Paint can do.