Caproni early aircraft

Hi! Caproni Ca.140.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cw1/ca140.html
"In the middle of the 30th in the factory Aeronautica have developed several versions of the Caproni bomber Ca. 111. One of them became a transport plane for the first time, Ca.140 took off in November 1935 year. From its predecessor, it featured a more powerful engine Isotta Franschini Asso 750 RC40 (900 HP), passenger compartment for 7 people and retractable landing gear.

The single prototype aircraft (MM. 140) was transferred to the Royal Italian air force, but the project did not receive further development."

Hi! Caproni Ca.146.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/other1/ca146.html
Parallel to the construction of an armed reconnaissance aircraft on firm 127 Ca Aeronautica Caproni developed unarmed light Scout, receiving the designation Ca. 146. She was a high-wing monoplane equipped with wooden double dvenadcaticilindrovym v-engine Isotta Franschini Asso XI RC40 capacity of 840 HP

In 1935 was built only one prototype aircraft, received a military registration MM. 331. During testing the aircraft demonstrated good flying characteristics, but overall failed to interest customers in the Royal Air Force in Italy.

Hi,

here is a two Projects for Ghibli,the first was a Super Ghibli with more powerful engine,
and the second was a mono-engined version.

http://www.alieuomini.it/AJAX/catalogo/dettaglio2_catalogo/36/

hesham said:

here is a two Projects for Ghibli,the first was a Super Ghibli with more powerful engine,
and the second was a mono-engined version.

Click to expand...

That single-engined variant was one of two September 1939 studies for a 'Ghibli meteorologico'. The engine was to have been one Isotta Fraschini Gamma inverted V-12.

The other 'Ghibli meteorologico' study was for a twin-engined variant with a nose like that of the more powerful, retractable-gear Ca.311. I'm not sure what engines this twin was to use but they appear to be inverted V-8s. I'm tempted to suggest Hirth HM 508s (1939 is a little too early to be anticipating the Alfa Romeo 121).

After the Ca.309 was proven in combat in Libya, the higher-powered 'Super Ghibli' was designed. It was to have two 280 cv Isotta Fraschini Beta R.C.10 inverted L-6s. In this case, the fuselage nose resembles that of the Ca.316 floatplane of August 1940.

It would be nice to know the designations of these three variants. Plenty of gaps in the Ca.3xx designation list

http://www.flyinglions.eu/storia/aviazione/item/233-caproni-cab-ca-309-ghibli.html

Thank you my dear Apophenia.

Hi,

who van help me to ID those aircraft in wooden model forms ?.

This photo has been taken in Caproni Museum in Trento, Italy.

Here are some other pictures, made by Igor113 in his LiveJournal.

Models side view

Models front view

Perhaps, it would be appropriate to merge this topic with Caproni?

Indeed, topics merged, thanks for the clue !

Thank you my dears,

and we can put them here.

During the First World War all these aircraft were designated Ca.4 by the Royal Army, while internally caproni distinguished itself among the different models by referring to the overall installed power. After the war Caproni adopted, retroactively, a new unique designation, adopted here.

Ca.40: prototype equipped with three isotta Fraschini engines of 200 hp each. This engine proved insufficient.
(The Caproni Ca.40 was a triple-engine heavy bomber developed by the Italian aircraft company Caproni in the late 1900s.
Designated Ca.4 by the Royal Army, the model represented an evolution of the series of biplane veiling trimotors that began with the Ca.31.
The Ca.40 was used by the Royal Army Air Service during World War I as well as its subsequent developments, Ca.41 and Ca.42, the latter also employed by the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS), the Royal Navy's Air Force (the Navy) British military).

Ca.41: variant for mass production. It differed from the prototype for a fuselage of different section, the absence of the pair of front wheels of the trolley and for tandem piloting posts. The engines installed were typically from 3 Fiat A.12 in line with 210 hp. Few of these models had 250 hp Isotta Fraschini engines. This series was identified within the company as Caproni 750 hp.

Ca.42: Variant with the most powerful Liberty L-12 engines of 400 hp. It maintained the configuration of the Ca.41 with the driver's posts flanked by the Ca.40. The variant was identified within the company as Caproni 1,200 hp. 12 built.
The design of Ca.42 as a whole was the same as that of previous Caporni machines: a wooden frame with linen cladding.
The novelty was eight wheeled chassis trolleys and a large bomb container placed in the center of the lower wing of the sub-body gondola.


Ca.43: Seaplane variant made in a single model.

Ca.48: Some of the Ca.42 after the conflict were converted as airliners for 18-23 passengers.

Ca.51: A single-model prototype of a larger version of the Ca.40 series. He adopted biplane tailplanes and a tail beard. It was equipped with more powerful Fiat A.14 engines with 400 hp.

Ca.52 : Designation of the 6 Ca.42 built for the Royal Naval Air Service.

Ca.58: Designation of the Ca.48 re-engined with the most powerful Fiat A.14 or Isotta Fraschini V.6.

Ca.59: Designation of Ca.58 for export.

Ca.40 and Ca.43 picture.

Hi! Ca.40.　Please watch landing gear.

This drawing shows Ca.41 with Issota engineor. Radiator is interesting.

Tractor engine radiator shape are different from three side view drawing. Ca.41 or Ca.42? Without bomb container?

This radiator shape is also little different.

Hi!
Isoota(Ca.41), Fiat(Ca.41) and Liberty engine(Ca.43).

From Aerophile 1921.

From- From, I beni storico-aeronautici nel contesto del patrimonio culturale

Figure 7Priv. Ind. N. 364374,

Slipping bomb to operation automatic, Gianni Caproni, Milan 19
July 1938 (class UIBM Arms and war and hunting materials).

hesham said:

...Slipping bomb to operation automatic, Gianni Caproni, Milan 19 July 1938 (class UIBM Arms and war and hunting materials).

Click to expand...

Google Translate insists upon 'slipping' or 'sliding' but its more like a 'programmed (or programmable) gliding bomb'.

UIBM is the Italian Patent and Trademark Office (Ufficio Italiano Brevetti e Marchi). So, the last bit is something like 'Patent class: Armaments, War Materials, and Weapons/Shooting'.

Regarding the Ca.125 tourer (I think that term was used for touring aircraft once upon a time at least):

Hello,
Perhaps someone knows more about this project, the Ca.225?
(source: "Caratteristiche velivoli italiani" wartime pamphlet)

tomo pauk said:

Hello,
Perhaps someone knows more about this project, the Ca.225?

View attachment 690588

Click to expand...

Yes,here;

hesham said:

Yes,here;

Click to expand...

Thanks. The two are not the same aircraft, though.

tomo pauk said:

hesham said:

Yes,here;

Click to expand...

Thanks. The two are not the same aircraft, though.

Click to expand...

How is that ?.

hesham said:

How is that ?.

Click to expand...

Wikipedia's article is a mess.
There was no Zeta engine of 1250HP in 1935 (or any Zeta engine for that matter in 1935). Wing span of 14.8 m does not mix at all with wing area figure of 65 sqm. There is also no Italian entry about he Ca.225 there.

The excerpt you've provided is more believable, even if the engine types are in mismatch.

The engines shown in the drawing above and shown below are described as Isotta-Fraschini Delta RC.47-52s, inverted V-12 producing 800 hp. The stated wing area in the drawing seems to be 30 sq-mm, though it is hard to read.

With one exception, the Wikipedia information accords with its source, Thompson's Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945. The exception is the wing area, which Thompson does not supply.,

What would indicate that this is a 1935 design? The drawing carries the date febbraio .43 (February '43).

My guess would be that the airplane was designed for Zetas sometime in 1939-42, but Delta engines had to be substituted at some point due to the development problems of the Zeta (an X-24 constructed from two sets of Delta-type components).

The attached is from my files. I do not know the original source.

iverson said:

With one exception, the Wikipedia information accords with its source, Thompson's Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-1945. The exception is the wing area, which Thompson does not supply.,

Click to expand...

Mr. Thompson wrote his book in 1963.
I find it that the older the ww2 book is, especially if it deals with country foreign to the author, the more it requires reader's discretion.

iverson said:

What would indicate that this is a 1935 design?

Click to expand...

Author of the Wikipedia article should be able answer to that question.

iverson said:

My guess would be that the airplane was designed for Zetas sometime in 1939-42, but Delta engines had to be substituted at some point due to the development problems of the Zeta (an X-24 constructed from two sets of Delta-type components).

Click to expand...

(my bold)
Hopefully we'll find out someday.
Bolded part is not correct - Zeta used two sets of Gamma engines, these were smaller than Deltas.