I'm sorry I was late to the party, but at least I brought my own drink. I think it may seem strange to ask a lying machine about the hidden truths of the universe, but humanity has been doing that for millennia through shamans and that passion for knowledge seems normal to us.
Yet another claim of a propellantless space drive
- Thread starter martinbayer
- Start date
I think what Fleming actually said was: this is fun!
That's a good question. In my opinion, computers don't need to be smart to run trillions of simulations until we find the truth we need to know, using brute force trial and error. Nature needs billions of years to do the same thing by trying anything that works. A computer can do it in a few minutes, but the procedure is the same. The hard part will be interpreting the machine's answers: how to choose from trillions of options? That's why I said before that it will be necessary to create an interface that filters only the useful data. If it's done by a particularly sensitive human, their job is secured, but we'd be better off trying to automate the procedure.
It is possible that there are many honest people in the United States who still believe in the words of their president. Their patriotism is admirable and should not be questioned, but in the rest of the world it is not, a matter of perspective.Really???
Conspiracy theory - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I think President Lincoln still provided the most realistic assessment: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
In Lincoln's time, politicians won votes thanks to the dissemination of their lofty ideals that guaranteed the honesty of their future government, now they limit themselves to paying for gigantic electoral propaganda campaigns aimed at people susceptible to social messages that are not at all subtle... Why would it be so?
Nik
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Snark:
Yeah, well, they're after the 'Swing Vote': Rest already convinced for/against, or would choose NOTA if that was an option...
/
( Set bar such 'enough' NOTA votes disqualify ballot's candidates for a decade: Long enough to perhaps acquire some humility ??)
Apologies for rant: Have been connecting new through-wall drain for laundry machine displaced from previous location by installation of new, wall-hung c/h combi-boiler. Which totally deranged gable-end of kitchen. Like Legendary guy who beat hydra into submission recursively, I swear Murphy threw me two new problems for every one I solved. Until nothing was left to go wrong with the plumbing.
Next, boxing-in pipes behind planned 'blind corner' kitchen unit, which will sorta-replace 'tallboy' cupboard lost to hanging said boiler...
Yeah, well, they're after the 'Swing Vote': Rest already convinced for/against, or would choose NOTA if that was an option...
/
( Set bar such 'enough' NOTA votes disqualify ballot's candidates for a decade: Long enough to perhaps acquire some humility ??)
Apologies for rant: Have been connecting new through-wall drain for laundry machine displaced from previous location by installation of new, wall-hung c/h combi-boiler. Which totally deranged gable-end of kitchen. Like Legendary guy who beat hydra into submission recursively, I swear Murphy threw me two new problems for every one I solved. Until nothing was left to go wrong with the plumbing.
Next, boxing-in pipes behind planned 'blind corner' kitchen unit, which will sorta-replace 'tallboy' cupboard lost to hanging said boiler...
martinbayer
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Would you please explain and document "the dissemination of their lofty ideals that guaranteed the honesty of their future government"? There have been political frauds, cheats, and scoundrels since the beginning of recorded history - the only thing that has changed is the efficiency of (electronic) media used for (mis)information.
Political fraud? Are you seriously proposing some conspiracy theory? Are you suggesting that a dark force intervenes in the elections? I find it hard to believe that such dangerous ideas are freely put forward in this forum.
Attachments
martinbayer
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That's not a political fraud, just a guy doing his job for those at the top, pure routine.
martinbayer
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I guess the German and Spanish interpretations of the English language may differ(?), but I leave it up to you to count the instances of the word "fraud" in the above referenced Wikipedia article. I have to tell you though that your attempts at gaslighting are shall we say less than elegant.
Very good thing about the gas light. I think the biggest discrepancy between our thinking is what we expect from society. I'm not shocked by anything a politician does, one of my best friends makes a living writing speeches for them.
martinbayer
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I'm not shocked anymore by anything a politician does or says either, I'm just surprised by your denial of an obvious fact. Are you perchance running for public office yourself, like oh say dog catcher (although I gotta say that must be a way easier job than cat catcher/herder)?
I've been in public office for thirty-five years, so I'm not surprised by anything people do. For some reason the animals trust me, it must be some pheromones, I would never hunt them. This conversation is very refreshing, but I think we should pretend we're talking about fuelless spacecraft to avoid getting kicked out of this thread.
martinbayer
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As a fairly high(?) functioning social animal myself, I salute you for your service, Sir, and yes, let's talk about propellantless propulsion. At some point in this thread, especially when it came to fancy shmancy electrodynamic considerations, I was struck by the fact that the good old concept of the photon drive hasn't come up. As a youngster, I was (and, as a geezer, still am) utterly fascinated by the factoid that a simple flashlight (or "electric torch" for all you people of a British persuasion out there) might actually be a p**s poor space propulsion system.
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Virtue signaling is a problem in politics
This article Scott would like no-doubt:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1cf54uz/a_recent_study_explored_how_liberals_and/
But someone could say the authors had an axe to grind.
The only proper response to this claim for now is...I don't know.
Same here--although--it is more prima facie
academic.oup.com
Newton was likely a religious zealot--yet did good work---at times.
In terms of climate change, phys.org had two stories that seem contradictory:
"Last year's snow deluge in California, which quickly erased a two decade long megadrought, was essentially a once-in-a-lifetime rescue from above, a new study found."
phys.org
But then, we hear this:
"Prior research has suggested that atmospheric rivers used to be more common in the region, and may have resulted in more rain than has been seen in modern times. Such studies have suggested that if certain conditions develop, more atmospheric rivers could form in the future, and that they could be bigger, leading to more rainfall than has been seen thus far."
phys.org
And of course---both scenarios are proof of GCC.
If the temperatures go up--that's AGW...even though we saw a spike across the solar system
If the temps go down--well, more evaporation makes more precip'--that falls as newer white snow...so---that's global warming too.
If we have extremes (nothing new) but overall conditions don't change--that also is AGW.
So, which of those stories are correct? I don't know.
But I digress.
In terms of woo-drives, we are told there can be no truck between gravity and, say, the electroweak force.
And yet, we have this:
phys.org
To support the consistency between spacetime and electromagnetism, the author describes how the cosmological constant in Einstein's theory, which is believed to be responsible for dark energy is actually a description of an electromagnetic field.
Others seem to think some coupling is going on:
phys.org
The researchers used their model to show what would happen in the detector if the dark energy was produced in a particular region of the Sun, called the tachocline, where the magnetic fields are particularly strong.
"It was really surprising that this excess could in principle have been caused by dark energy rather than dark matter," said Vagnozzi.
But maybe I want (too badly) for there to be at least some hint that not everything going to space must do so atop a pillar of flame---to idle to orbit peacefully.
I don't know.
Some interesting news in terms of research into gravity
phys.org
phys.org
phys.org
However, in any case, the law of conservation of energy-momentum can be violated at high energy levels," Hamidreza Fazlollahi, a graduate student at the Educational and Scientific Institute of Gravity and Cosmology of RUDN University said.
This article Scott would like no-doubt:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1cf54uz/a_recent_study_explored_how_liberals_and/
But someone could say the authors had an axe to grind.
The only proper response to this claim for now is...I don't know.
Same here--although--it is more prima facie
When the one true faith trumps all: Low religious diversity, religious intolerance, and science denial
Abstract. Past theories have linked science denial to religiosity but have not explained its geographic variability. We hypothesize that it springs not onl
academic.oup.com
In terms of climate change, phys.org had two stories that seem contradictory:
"Last year's snow deluge in California, which quickly erased a two decade long megadrought, was essentially a once-in-a-lifetime rescue from above, a new study found."
Study says California's 2023 snowy rescue from megadrought was a freak event. Don't get used to it
Last year's snow deluge in California, which quickly erased a two decade long megadrought, was essentially a once-in-a-lifetime rescue from above, a new study found.
But then, we hear this:
"Prior research has suggested that atmospheric rivers used to be more common in the region, and may have resulted in more rain than has been seen in modern times. Such studies have suggested that if certain conditions develop, more atmospheric rivers could form in the future, and that they could be bigger, leading to more rainfall than has been seen thus far."
A look at the past suggests atmospheric rivers inundating California could get worse
A team of paleoclimatologists with the U.S. Geological Survey, NASA Ames Research Park, has found that atmospheric rivers in the past have dumped far more rain on California than those that have occurred over the past two years.
And of course---both scenarios are proof of GCC.
If the temperatures go up--that's AGW...even though we saw a spike across the solar system
If the temps go down--well, more evaporation makes more precip'--that falls as newer white snow...so---that's global warming too.
If we have extremes (nothing new) but overall conditions don't change--that also is AGW.
So, which of those stories are correct? I don't know.
But I digress.
In terms of woo-drives, we are told there can be no truck between gravity and, say, the electroweak force.
And yet, we have this:
Study proposes combining continuum mechanics with Einstein field equations
Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity is a landmark in our understanding of the universe. It gave rise to the notion of a spacetime continuum against which all physical phenomena play out. But over the decades, it has inspired many questions that have yet to be answered: How can...
To support the consistency between spacetime and electromagnetism, the author describes how the cosmological constant in Einstein's theory, which is believed to be responsible for dark energy is actually a description of an electromagnetic field.
Others seem to think some coupling is going on:
Have we detected dark energy? Scientists say it's a possibility
A new study, led by researchers at the University of Cambridge and reported in the journal Physical Review D, suggests that some unexplained results from the XENON1T experiment in Italy may have been caused by dark energy, and not the dark matter the experiment was designed to detect.
The researchers used their model to show what would happen in the detector if the dark energy was produced in a particular region of the Sun, called the tachocline, where the magnetic fields are particularly strong.
"It was really surprising that this excess could in principle have been caused by dark energy rather than dark matter," said Vagnozzi.
But maybe I want (too badly) for there to be at least some hint that not everything going to space must do so atop a pillar of flame---to idle to orbit peacefully.
I don't know.
Some interesting news in terms of research into gravity
A 'cosmic glitch' in gravity: New model may explain strange behavior on a cosmic scale
A group of researchers at the University of Waterloo and the University of British Columbia have discovered a potential "cosmic glitch" in the universe's gravity, explaining its strange behavior on a cosmic scale.
New work reveals the 'quantumness' of gravity
Gravity is part of our everyday life. Still, the gravitational force remains mysterious: to this day we do not understand whether its ultimate nature is geometrical, as Einstein envisaged, or governed by the laws of quantum mechanics.
Astrophysicist proposes a new theory of gravity without a conservation law
The general theory of relativity is based on the concept of curved space–time. To describe how the energy and momentum of fields are distributed in space–time, as well as how they interact with the gravitational field, a special mathematical construct is used—the energy–momentum tensor. This is...
However, in any case, the law of conservation of energy-momentum can be violated at high energy levels," Hamidreza Fazlollahi, a graduate student at the Educational and Scientific Institute of Gravity and Cosmology of RUDN University said.
Last edited:
martinbayer
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If you have a bible/koran/whatever, I invite you to check it for instances of virtue signal(l [I don't know if you are of the British English persuasion or not])ing and feel free to report back with an exact count. VS (you read it here first, folks!) is just another BS meme coined by internet "personalities"/"influencers". Old man rant off.Virtue signaling is a problem.
This article Scott would like no-doubt:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1cf54uz/a_recent_study_explored_how_liberals_and/
But someone could say the authors had an axe to grind.
The only proper response to this claim for now is...I don't know.
In terms of climate change, phys.org had two stories that seem contradictory:
"Last year's snow deluge in California, which quickly erased a two decade long megadrought, was essentially a once-in-a-lifetime rescue from above, a new study found."
Study says California's 2023 snowy rescue from megadrought was a freak event. Don't get used to it
Last year's snow deluge in California, which quickly erased a two decade long megadrought, was essentially a once-in-a-lifetime rescue from above, a new study found.
But then, we hear this:
"Prior research has suggested that atmospheric rivers used to be more common in the region, and may have resulted in more rain than has been seen in modern times. Such studies have suggested that if certain conditions develop, more atmospheric rivers could form in the future, and that they could be bigger, leading to more rainfall than has been seen thus far."
A look at the past suggests atmospheric rivers inundating California could get worse
A team of paleoclimatologists with the U.S. Geological Survey, NASA Ames Research Park, has found that atmospheric rivers in the past have dumped far more rain on California than those that have occurred over the past two years.
And of course---both scenarios are proof of GCC.
If the temperatures go up--that's AGW...even though we saw a spike across the solar system
If the temps go down--well, more evaporation makes more precip'--that falls as newer white snow...so---that's global warming too.
If we have extremes (nothing new) but overall conditions don't change--that also is AGW.
So, which of those stories are correct? I don't know.
martinbayer
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Proof of what exactly? And what are hair shirts anyway?
Another project of religion---to help make your point
The History of Hairshirts
Hairshirts are garments made from rough animal hair (usually that of goats) worn as a top or under a shirt and against the skin so the coarse hair will rub and scratch the wearer.
handwovenmagazine.com
martinbayer
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Right - always slavishly follow graduate students, no matter if they riot on university grounds - there seems to be a lot of energy-momentum violations at high-energy levels going on right now... And I still consider myself an old school German social democrat.Virtue signaling is a problem in politics
This article Scott would like no-doubt:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1cf54uz/a_recent_study_explored_how_liberals_and/
But someone could say the authors had an axe to grind.
The only proper response to this claim for now is...I don't know.
Same here--although--it is more prima facie
Newton was likely a religious zealot--yet did good work---at times.When the one true faith trumps all: Low religious diversity, religious intolerance, and science denial
Abstract. Past theories have linked science denial to religiosity but have not explained its geographic variability. We hypothesize that it springs not onl
In terms of climate change, phys.org had two stories that seem contradictory:
"Last year's snow deluge in California, which quickly erased a two decade long megadrought, was essentially a once-in-a-lifetime rescue from above, a new study found."
Study says California's 2023 snowy rescue from megadrought was a freak event. Don't get used to it
Last year's snow deluge in California, which quickly erased a two decade long megadrought, was essentially a once-in-a-lifetime rescue from above, a new study found.
But then, we hear this:
"Prior research has suggested that atmospheric rivers used to be more common in the region, and may have resulted in more rain than has been seen in modern times. Such studies have suggested that if certain conditions develop, more atmospheric rivers could form in the future, and that they could be bigger, leading to more rainfall than has been seen thus far."
A look at the past suggests atmospheric rivers inundating California could get worse
A team of paleoclimatologists with the U.S. Geological Survey, NASA Ames Research Park, has found that atmospheric rivers in the past have dumped far more rain on California than those that have occurred over the past two years.
And of course---both scenarios are proof of GCC.
If the temperatures go up--that's AGW...even though we saw a spike across the solar system
If the temps go down--well, more evaporation makes more precip'--that falls as newer white snow...so---that's global warming too.
If we have extremes (nothing new) but overall conditions don't change--that also is AGW.
So, which of those stories are correct? I don't know.
But I digress.
In terms of woo-drives, we are told there can be no truck between gravity and, say, the electroweak force.
And yet, we have this:
Study proposes combining continuum mechanics with Einstein field equations
Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity is a landmark in our understanding of the universe. It gave rise to the notion of a spacetime continuum against which all physical phenomena play out. But over the decades, it has inspired many questions that have yet to be answered: How can...
To support the consistency between spacetime and electromagnetism, the author describes how the cosmological constant in Einstein's theory, which is believed to be responsible for dark energy is actually a description of an electromagnetic field.
Others seem to think some coupling is going on:
Have we detected dark energy? Scientists say it's a possibility
A new study, led by researchers at the University of Cambridge and reported in the journal Physical Review D, suggests that some unexplained results from the XENON1T experiment in Italy may have been caused by dark energy, and not the dark matter the experiment was designed to detect.
The researchers used their model to show what would happen in the detector if the dark energy was produced in a particular region of the Sun, called the tachocline, where the magnetic fields are particularly strong.
"It was really surprising that this excess could in principle have been caused by dark energy rather than dark matter," said Vagnozzi.
But maybe I want (too badly) for there to be at least some hint that not everything going to space must do so atop a pillar of flame---to idle to orbit peacefully.
I don't know.
Some interesting news in terms of research into gravity
A 'cosmic glitch' in gravity: New model may explain strange behavior on a cosmic scale
A group of researchers at the University of Waterloo and the University of British Columbia have discovered a potential "cosmic glitch" in the universe's gravity, explaining its strange behavior on a cosmic scale.New work reveals the 'quantumness' of gravity
Gravity is part of our everyday life. Still, the gravitational force remains mysterious: to this day we do not understand whether its ultimate nature is geometrical, as Einstein envisaged, or governed by the laws of quantum mechanics.Astrophysicist proposes a new theory of gravity without a conservation law
The general theory of relativity is based on the concept of curved space–time. To describe how the energy and momentum of fields are distributed in space–time, as well as how they interact with the gravitational field, a special mathematical construct is used—the energy–momentum tensor. This is...
However, in any case, the law of conservation of energy-momentum can be violated at high energy levels," Hamidreza Fazlollahi, a graduate student at the Educational and Scientific Institute of Gravity and Cosmology of RUDN University said.
Last edited:
Scott Kenny
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Ye gods, that was a terribly designed study...
It would be nice to have what one of my favorite scifi authors calls "vector control" tech.In terms of woo-drives, we are told there can be no truck between gravity and, say, the electroweak force.
And yet, we have this:
Study proposes combining continuum mechanics with Einstein field equations
Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity is a landmark in our understanding of the universe. It gave rise to the notion of a spacetime continuum against which all physical phenomena play out. But over the decades, it has inspired many questions that have yet to be answered: How can...
To support the consistency between spacetime and electromagnetism, the author describes how the cosmological constant in Einstein's theory, which is believed to be responsible for dark energy is actually a description of an electromagnetic field.
Others seem to think some coupling is going on:
Have we detected dark energy? Scientists say it's a possibility
A new study, led by researchers at the University of Cambridge and reported in the journal Physical Review D, suggests that some unexplained results from the XENON1T experiment in Italy may have been caused by dark energy, and not the dark matter the experiment was designed to detect.
The researchers used their model to show what would happen in the detector if the dark energy was produced in a particular region of the Sun, called the tachocline, where the magnetic fields are particularly strong.
"It was really surprising that this excess could in principle have been caused by dark energy rather than dark matter," said Vagnozzi.
But maybe I want (too badly) for there to be at least some hint that not everything going to space must do so atop a pillar of flame---to idle to orbit peacefully.
But I suspect that the energy efficiency would absolutely suck. As in, worse than photon drives in vacuum. 300megawatts per newton of thrust...
You run into some very strange effects at both extremes of the energy scale.Some interesting news in terms of research into gravity
A 'cosmic glitch' in gravity: New model may explain strange behavior on a cosmic scale
A group of researchers at the University of Waterloo and the University of British Columbia have discovered a potential "cosmic glitch" in the universe's gravity, explaining its strange behavior on a cosmic scale.New work reveals the 'quantumness' of gravity
Gravity is part of our everyday life. Still, the gravitational force remains mysterious: to this day we do not understand whether its ultimate nature is geometrical, as Einstein envisaged, or governed by the laws of quantum mechanics.Astrophysicist proposes a new theory of gravity without a conservation law
The general theory of relativity is based on the concept of curved space–time. To describe how the energy and momentum of fields are distributed in space–time, as well as how they interact with the gravitational field, a special mathematical construct is used—the energy–momentum tensor. This is...
However, in any case, the law of conservation of energy-momentum can be violated at high energy levels," Hamidreza Fazlollahi, a graduate student at the Educational and Scientific Institute of Gravity and Cosmology of RUDN University said.
Dilandu
I'm dissatisfied, which means, I exist.
Well, if you are willing to work with 300 MWt per 1 H of thrust...
Dilandu
I'm dissatisfied, which means, I exist.
Problem is, humans exist mostly in the middle.
Like Malcolm Wilkerson
I remember the Forgettomori story called “Laser stars laser planets.”
The idea was that if an asteroid was dropped into the Sun---it would generate a laser pulse in its wake via plasma.
A stellar thunderwell, if you will
Manhole Covers in Space—and Online
Was it true that a manhole cover, accidentally blasted upwards at escape velocity during the American nuclear tests in the 1950s, was in fact the first manmade object in space? . . .
strangehorizons.com
Still having trouble with neutonian physics…hey!
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Scott Kenny
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Yep. Means we consider those power levels extremes, as opposed to some hypothetical life that lives inside stars, for example, that would consider most power levels under gigawatts to be low.
Light still has the power to amaze.
As it turns out, if you hit water at a forty five degree angle along the green spectrum, you can get evaporation without heat.
That didn't surprise me as much as today's article "Research team discovered new property of light" from work by UC Irvine's Dimitri Fish man..."photons can obtain substantial momentum, similar to that of electrons in solid materials."
A little more oomph for space drives?
He might be in driving distance of you Martin.
I do remember an old Space Daily article about one sail material getting an added bounce a decade or two back or so--that was silicon too IIRC.
martinbayer
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Thanks for the initial pointer, even though his actual name is *Dmitry Fishman*, see https://www.chem.uci.edu/people/dmitry-fishman - I do indeed live about 15 driving minutes from the UCI campus, but color me skeptical for the time being...
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Nik
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http://forgetomori.com/2010/science/laser-stars-laser-planets/
Keeps timing out: Is it me, or is it down ??
Keeps timing out: Is it me, or is it down ??
martinbayer
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The current URL does indeed not work for me either, but the most recent Wayback Machine capture is at https://web.archive.org/web/2017082...i.com/2010/science/laser-stars-laser-planets/.
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Thank you for that---my "Google fu" is lacking (Dogpile used to be my go-to).
I figure building a massive laser for Starshot may not be needed if an in bound objects trajectory sunward could be flattened a bit---the way Sol eats comets, all you need are a lens between the laser and anything to be accelerated.
It doesn't have to be aimed...just having small craft lased forward as heliopause probes is fine---whatever works.
I figure building a massive laser for Starshot may not be needed if an in bound objects trajectory sunward could be flattened a bit---the way Sol eats comets, all you need are a lens between the laser and anything to be accelerated.
It doesn't have to be aimed...just having small craft lased forward as heliopause probes is fine---whatever works.
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