The World According to Ronald Reagan

Zen.

Here's a cartoon for you that I suspect you'll really like. It's my digitised rendition of a Finnish poster from the early 1980's when the Cold War was reheated for awhile. Enjoy!

Very nice, at once both humourous and ideological.

Once I would have laughed only and not seen the other side of this, now I see both, So maybe I don't laugh outloud thesedays in some rabidly desperate need to wield humour with hate. But I do chuckle.

Bloody Romans! Can't take a joke!

-Mr. Cheeky, Life of Brian

Was that from Peoples Front of Judea or the Judean Peoples Front?

Waaait a minute... Is Scandinavia a part of USSR, or is it just not on the map? ???

bri21 said:

It's my digitised rendition of a Finnish poster ...

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Finnish?

Another version of a political cartoon originally drawn by Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial cartoonist David Horsey of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer newspaper from 1982. The cartoon (below) was sold as posters during the period. As a Seattle resident, I thought that it was humorous that I lived in Ecotopia.

This used to be a more popular form of art than it currently seems to be. I can recall seeing a lot of different takes on it... "America according to Californians/Texans," with the state in question being gigantic and the rest just tiny little specks.

Oddly, I don't recall seeing much along the lines of "The World according to Europeans/Brits/French/Germans/Whatever."

Surprised I haven't seen something along the lines of "The universe according to Obama," with a photo of a spiral galaxy with an enormous head of Obama rising out of it. Odin knows, only Zaphod Beeblebrox rivals him in terms of ego.

Sometimes if you want to have a discussion subject if you have lots of people who think they are smart and knowledgeable in a log cabin in the middle of woods in the winter, have everyone draw a world map and compare them, it gets quite fun... Would be even funnier with more international people...

mz said:

have everyone draw a world map and compare them...

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A: "Hey, my map has Atlantis and Lemuria, but yours doesn't. You're stupid."
B: "Yours doesn't even show the giant runways for landing the hypersonic stealth blimps. How could you miss that? You're stupid."
C: "Oy, mate, your map shows the north at the top, rather than the south! Crikey, you're stupid!"
D: "How come none of your maps show the holes at the poles that lead to the inner hollow Earth? You're all stupid."

And as with all tales that involve groups of people in a cabin in the woods during winter, this tale ends with them eating each other.

mz said:

if you have lots of people who think they are smart and knowledgeable in a log cabin in the middle of woods in the winter

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Now that wouldn't end bad...

Maps on Belgium view by Belgium Cartoonist Pierre Kroll


Translation
Map of Belgium
Dreamed by Flemish
how french TV Channel TF-1 see it (in revenge Belgium TV Channel RTBF label France as Corsica )

how Dutch TV-news NOS see it
Labeled by Eric Zemmour a French political journalist ! RDA Francase = Pepole Republic of...FRANCE ?!
how Belgiums see there country: as a recreation map

how the Africans see Belgium (its the most popular refugee camp for them)
how to explane this most cursed country
how the Chinese think about Belgium...

Triton said:

Another version of a political cartoon originally drawn by Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial cartoonist David Horsey of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer newspaper from 1982. [...]

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What the ... !
Is that Mrs. Sarah Palin in the compass rose?
This must be a sign. A vision.

fightingirish said:

Triton said:

Another version of a political cartoon originally drawn by Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial cartoonist David Horsey of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer newspaper from 1982. [...]

Click to expand...

What the ... !
Is that Mrs. Sarah Palin in the compass rose?
This must be a sign. A vision.

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If Palin becomes President, we'll know who to thank/blame! ;D

Re: New Yorkistan......

My favourite......

Interestingly enough I read somewhere (trying to find the article) that historian David Brinkley tried to look at recent president's "independent" search for knowledge (readings, etc) combined with the extent of personal writings from all sources - published, unpublished, diaries, letter and speeches.

The winner by a far margin was Ronald Reagan who Brinkley concluded from the depth and breadth of intellectually pursuits was brilliant (his words).

This great SNL sketch is closer to the truth than many might want to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skQuhoG7fFM

bobbymike said:

Interestingly enough I read somewhere (trying to find the article) that historian David Brinkley

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I think that's Alan Brinkley, David Brinkley's son.

http://www.amazon.com/Bush-George-Ronald-Reagan-Presidential/dp/B001P96DYM/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307369856&sr=1-2

Alan Brinkley is a professor at Columbia and is the son of David Brinkley, the NBC evening news anchorman for many years. The other historian you might be thinking of is Douglas Brinkley at Tulane.

And OT but since this is the bar, by all means check out Douglas Brinkley's Katrina book.

bobbymike said:

This great SNL sketch is closer to the truth than many might want to believe.

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I haven't seen that sketch since it originally aired. Laughed my keister off.

I did, however, hear an interview a couple years ago with the guy who wrote the sketch. He was a closet Republican and somehow sneaked that through. And became real unpopular once the others figured him out.

This great SNL sketch is so hilarious
it reminded me about belgium politics

The scholarly/historical opinion of Reagan has changed over time as historians have gained access to his private papers and official files. A few years ago somebody wrote a book about Reagan's pre-White House years in the 1970s and they had access to his radio program scripts. What the scripts demonstrated was that Reagan wrote all the segments himself and very carefully crafted his arguments, rewriting them frequently to improve them (I think he did five-minute segments on some radio program in the 1970s). As the scripts showed, he worked hard at it, and he was not simply reading something produced by somebody else. Reagan might not have been a genius, but he was not intellectually lazy. And many people repeatedly under-estimated him in the campaigns, which worked to his advantage.

What did confuse a lot of people was his management style. He did not get intimately engaged in policy issues. He tended to set the goals, then step back to allow others to work out the details, only re-engaging if he did not like the direction that things were going. Some of his advisers thought that he should have taken a more active role--and there are probably many cases where he should have--but it simply was not his style. This led lots of people to think that he was aloof or dim-witted. But he really did assert control.

There are a lot of similarities between Reagan and Eisenhower. Ike was popularly viewed by the media as aloof and addled. The joke was that he was off playing golf while the Soviets launched Sputnik. But later documents were released by the Eisenhower Library that showed that Eisenhower actually cultivated that image. (Fred Greenstein demonstrated this in his book The Hidden-Hand Presidency.) There are even documents where Ike would be meeting with his advisers--much like Reagan in the SNL sketch above--and then finish the meeting saying (paraphrasing) "I'm now going to talk to the press and do my best to confuse them." It was a strategy.

The original map seems to have got the Muslim fanatics (to the west of India) bit right...

Well, I would've put this in the "Space Projects" section if there was a dedicated 80's SDI thread or something akin to it (NASA, etc.) - but there doesn't seem to be. So here goes: The CIA has recently declassified some briefings they held with president Reagan. What's perhaps unique about these is that apparently he requested at least some briefings be produced in film form. And so we now have "The Soviet Space Program" to behold, for example (there are others on CIA's YouTube channel). It is described as follows:

"Overview of the Soviet Space Program, created by CIA's Global Video Program. Reagan watched this film on 10/14/82, according to his diary entry of that date. To learn more, read Ronald Reagan: Intelligence and the Cold War on CIA.gov's Historical Collections Division page at http://go.usa.gov/XWQ."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzMYNONhfs4&feature=channel_video_title

There's nothing very revelatory in the contents of what the CIA has decided to publish here - evidently the entire film hasn't been uploaded - but it's an interesting footnote in US space policy and defense from the days of the (somewhat) cold war. I'm not the keenest study of history, but brushed up on some of the main points of what the Reagan administration did when in space in relation to this briefing. Some policies could indeed be regarded as having been influenced by the information within the film: The launch of "Star Wars" initiative on March 23, 1983 (clearly it wasn't just pulled out of the hat and is part of technological continuums and such but the idea of space defense as a program in its own right might reflect CIA's contention that the vast majority of the Soviet space program was military), and the 1984 state of the union speech where he introduced the concept of a permanently manned international space station (perhaps corresponding to CIA informing the president that the Soviets were making some of their most notable strides in long term space operations).

Anyway, it's a fun watch. These ain't your father's home movies (unless some of you are Michael, Patti or Ron)!

blackstar said:

The scholarly/historical opinion of Reagan has changed over time as historians have gained access to his private papers and official files. A few years ago somebody wrote a book about Reagan's pre-White House years in the 1970s and they had access to his radio program scripts. What the scripts demonstrated was that Reagan wrote all the segments himself and very carefully crafted his arguments, rewriting them frequently to improve them (I think he did five-minute segments on some radio program in the 1970s). As the scripts showed, he worked hard at it, and he was not simply reading something produced by somebody else. Reagan might not have been a genius, but he was not intellectually lazy. And many people repeatedly under-estimated him in the campaigns, which worked to his advantage.

What did confuse a lot of people was his management style. He did not get intimately engaged in policy issues. He tended to set the goals, then step back to allow others to work out the details, only re-engaging if he did not like the direction that things were going. Some of his advisers thought that he should have taken a more active role--and there are probably many cases where he should have--but it simply was not his style. This led lots of people to think that he was aloof or dim-witted. But he really did assert control.

There are a lot of similarities between Reagan and Eisenhower. Ike was popularly viewed by the media as aloof and addled. The joke was that he was off playing golf while the Soviets launched Sputnik. But later documents were released by the Eisenhower Library that showed that Eisenhower actually cultivated that image. (Fred Greenstein demonstrated this in his book The Hidden-Hand Presidency.) There are even documents where Ike would be meeting with his advisers--much like Reagan in the SNL sketch above--and then finish the meeting saying (paraphrasing) "I'm now going to talk to the press and do my best to confuse them." It was a strategy.

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I am reminded of the debate over national identity cards very early in the Reagan Administration.


"The idea was presented at a Reagan cabinet meeting in 1981 by then-Attorney General William French Smith. At first, no dissent was heard. Only the voice of Martin Anderson, then Assistant to the President for Policy Development stopped the idea dead. Anderson sardonically stated, 'Mr. President, I would like to suggest another way that I think is a lot better. Its a lot cheaper. It cant be counterfeited. Its very lightweight, and impossible to lose. Its even waterproof. All we have to do is tattoo an identification number on the in side of everybodys arm.' Ronald Reagan then said, equally sardonically 'Maybe we should just brand all the babies.' The national identity card proposal died there." (link to source).


Reagan was personally opposed to national ID cards. He viewed them as the hallmark of repressive regimes, and a form of "the mark of the beast." However, he heard his cabinet out. What he was waiting for was for someone, anyone (Anderson was small potatoes compared to others in the room, but was so horrified by the discussion that he felt compelled to speak out), to present a different view than AG Smith. In other accounts of this meeting, I've read basically Reagan was pushing his advisers with prompts of "Any one else care to comment? Anyone else have any thoughts?" That is what finally steeled Anderson to speak up.


Republican presidents/presidential candidates have been portrayed by the mainstream media one of two ways over the past 60 years, either they are amiable dunces too dimwitted to realize they are being controlled by big corporations/war mongers/ etc. - Eisenhower, Ford, Reagan, GW Bush, or evil geniuses who control/beholden vast conspiracies - Goldwater, Nixon, GHW Bush, Dole, GW Bush (GW Bush is unique in that he was contradictory accused of running vast evil conspiracies of incredible depth and complexity, while also being a dunce). Well, they may have been correct about Nixon... Democrats are portrayed as ever-sensitive, brilliant, complex, and the smartest guys in the room (Stevenson, Kennedy, Johnson, Humphrey, Carter, Mondale, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obama).


Fortunately, for the sake of history, Reagan's notes, cards, speeches were not only preserved, but also written in his own hand.

Reagan hilarity:

While doing a sound check with radio engineers, Reagan joked around about annihilating his Cold War enemies: "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes." The tape was later broadcast. Note to all current and future politicians: when working with audio engineers from the news media, keep the jokes to a minimum.

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From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15631068