- Joined
- 27 December 2005
- Messages
- 16,938
- Reaction score
- 21,872
sferrin said:Arjen said:It is notoriously difficult to prove the non- existence of things, be they security breaches, the F-19 or the Loch Ness monster.
You have conjecture. That's it. There may be something there. And maybe not.
Well the fact that there have been LARGE data breaches isn't "non-existent". I would be astonished if they collected all that information and then didn't bother to read it. That the J-20's initial canopy was damn near a carbon copy of the F-22's canopy, even down to some of the hardware, is not disputable. (Geometrically at least. Chemical composition can't be eye-balled.)
kaiserbill said:Thanks Deino...I am being forced to get my info from wider sources recently unfortunately.
Deino, are these in actual squadron usage already, or an Operational Conversion Unit? Is there a most recent indication of how many serial production machines there are?
Either way, as said, it is a mightily impressive pace.
Blitzo said:kaiserbill said:Thanks Deino...I am being forced to get my info from wider sources recently unfortunately.
Deino, are these in actual squadron usage already, or an Operational Conversion Unit? Is there a most recent indication of how many serial production machines there are?
Either way, as said, it is a mightily impressive pace.
I think they would be currently in the the Chinese equivalent of OT&E.
Unfortunately we don't have any clear grasp of how many production aircraft there are... At least 4-6, maybe more, but none ever all taken in the same picture.
kaiserbill said:Thanks for that feedback Blitzo..The last I saw on another site was 4 production aircraft I think but that was a few weeks back.
As said, the programme seems to be moving rapidly, relatively speaking.
kaiserbill said:Yes...I see your point. What we've seen are only what's been captured on images and probably doesn't reflect what has actually been built.
The total production figures in mind for a high end platform like this will be interesting.
FighterJock said:kaiserbill said:Yes...I see your point. What we've seen are only what's been captured on images and probably doesn't reflect what has actually been built.
The total production figures in mind for a high end platform like this will be interesting.
Indeed it will be interesting for the total production figures. And also what aircraft will be replaced with the J-20As? For starters, I don't think that it will be the latest J-8s as they have not long come out of an upgrade program.
Deino said:FighterJock said:kaiserbill said:Yes...I see your point. What we've seen are only what's been captured on images and probably doesn't reflect what has actually been built.
The total production figures in mind for a high end platform like this will be interesting.
Indeed it will be interesting for the total production figures. And also what aircraft will be replaced with the J-20As? For starters, I don't think that it will be the latest J-8s as they have not long come out of an upgrade program.
There are quite reliable reports about more than a dozen LRIP-birds out there. No. 11 was spotted in October and this - from yesterday - is said to be #13.
There are still j8d, produced in late 80s and early 90s, that are long in the tooth, even if theyve been modernized to H standard a decade ago. Furthermore, a few dozen of su27 have already been retired, so the rest of them will also need replacement soon.FighterJock said:Indeed it will be interesting for the total production figures. And also what aircraft will be replaced with the J-20As? For starters, I don't think that it will be the latest J-8s as they have not long come out of an upgrade program.
Deino said:There are quite reliable reports about more than a dozen LRIP-birds out there. No. 11 was spotted in October and this - from yesterday - is said to be #13.
totoro said:There are still j8d, produced in late 80s and early 90s, that are long in the tooth, even if theyve been modernized to H standard a decade ago. Furthermore, a few dozen of su27 have already been retired, so the rest of them will also need replacement soon.FighterJock said:Indeed it will be interesting for the total production figures. And also what aircraft will be replaced with the J-20As? For starters, I don't think that it will be the latest J-8s as they have not long come out of an upgrade program.
Of course, just like with j10 producton, it may be so j20 come to j11 regiments, which would then provide their airframe to regiments which currently operate old j8 and su27.
FighterJock said:So how many Su-27 fighter squadrons do the PLAAF actually have?
totoro said:FighterJock said:So how many Su-27 fighter squadrons do the PLAAF actually have?
According to scramble.nl orbat, there arent any pure su27 regiments. Plaaf seems to be mixing them up with j11a. One could roughly calculate from the given orbat of 6 su27/j11a regiments, and the fact su27 are oldest flankers plaaf has and are probably first in line to be retired, that there are two dozen su27sk left in service. Alongside slightly higher number of su27ubk left.
Deino said:A rare image posted by @OedoSoldier at Twitter shows both J-XX concepts at the China Aerospace Science & Technology-expo in 2000: The CAC concept - aka later J-20 - in grey and the SAC concept in black.
Deino said:
FighterJock said:Bear in mind that China has long borders, the J-20 would have to carry at least four external fuel tanks depending on where the J-20 squadron was based.
Ian33 said:Deino said:
When you absolutely have to reach out and touch some one and no tanker is available.
starviking said:Ian33 said:Deino said:
When you absolutely have to reach out and touch some one and no tanker is available.
Hitting AWACS and other supporting assets far from base. I wonder how much radius the tanks give?
Blitzo said:starviking said:Ian33 said:Deino said:
When you absolutely have to reach out and touch some one and no tanker is available.
Hitting AWACS and other supporting assets far from base. I wonder how much radius the tanks give?
I wouldn't feel comfortable having a stealth fighter fly beyond one's IADS defended borders with EFTs during war time. I think during a conflict, J-20s would not fly outside of China's borders with EFTs.
I believe the primary use of EFTs would be to support rapid redeployment from bases within China's borders during conflict, where they take off from one base (say in central or western China) loaded with EFTs and internally loaded with AAMs or other ordnance for their mission, and then as they near the theatre of operations (say, the airspace over the East China Sea beyond China's IADS borders) they would eject their EFTs+wet hardpoints and proceed with their mission in a clean configuration. After their mission, they would land at a base near their theatre of operations where support crew and logistics would have been ferried and/or pre-placed to support sustained operations from that airbase.
FighterJock said:I too would not feel comfortable with J-20's flying with four external fuel tanks either, plus the fact that China now has a extremely long-range missile as well.
Blitzo said:FighterJock said:I too would not feel comfortable with J-20's flying with four external fuel tanks either, plus the fact that China now has a extremely long-range missile as well.
J-20's weapons bay can't hold the large PL-X VLRAAM I think, and carrying them externally would result in similar compromise of stealthiness that EFTs would result. Though I'm sure they would be happy to use Flankers and J-10s as PL-X platforms.
J-20 is a fairly large, stealthy, air superiority fighter-interceptor. Carrying external stores in a theatre of combat would greatly compromise its ability to perform that role.
latenlazy said:I mean, the whole point of such a long range AAM is that you don't need stealth to penetrate into your adversary's IADS.
Steven said:None of the production aircraft appears to have noticeable canopy tint or actual EOTS apertures. Perhaps those items are not finished in their development?
lolDeino said:The issue raised up again with this latest CCTV-report that got some hype by the usual suspects in certain forums as being prove that the WS-15 is ready, that the WS-15 is available already in 4 versions and the most powerful one delivering 24t of thrust.