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Thread to discuss the MiG-23 family of fighters.
MiG-23 Flogger Fighter Family
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Pictures of MiG-23 testbeds/prototypes
Found some very intersting links on an other forum. Very intersting pictures of MiG-23 tesbeds/prototypes:
http://forum.airforce.ru/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=9
http://forum.airforce.ru/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=8
Note the saw tooth at the MiG-23M and the KDS-23 chaff/flare dispenser and the dielectric caps of the internal jammer!
Found some very intersting links on an other forum. Very intersting pictures of MiG-23 tesbeds/prototypes:
http://forum.airforce.ru/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=9
http://forum.airforce.ru/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=8
Note the saw tooth at the MiG-23M and the KDS-23 chaff/flare dispenser and the dielectric caps of the internal jammer!
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lewradar
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We have a 23M at a local air museum (Lincolnshire, UK) The saw tooth is radome material. At first I thought it must contain an antenna - but have since learnt that it is made that way to avoid masking the antennas(SPO, SRO and SO-69) in the adjacent leading edge radome.
Schorsch
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The MiG-23 is a interesting aircraft. It started as a high-altitude "fighter". Actually it had little in common with a fighter, because it could hardly exceed 5G and high AoA were not recommended. However, first flown in 1967 the Soviet Union drew the same conclusions from Vietnam war as the USA did. Now they wanted more agility. That was not easy to accomodate in the Flogger, the engineers virtually went back to the drawing board.
The subsequent result was the -M, later the -ML.
The Flogger was no agile multi-role fighter. It was to perform defense of WP-airspace in Cold War conditions and Soviet doctrine. For this job it was designed well and would have performed reasonably in case of a conflict. All the local conflicts in Middle East were not the Flogger's real environment and it performed poorly due to various reasons.
This webpage offers some good and brief information on Flogger's versions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiG-23
The subsequent result was the -M, later the -ML.
The Flogger was no agile multi-role fighter. It was to perform defense of WP-airspace in Cold War conditions and Soviet doctrine. For this job it was designed well and would have performed reasonably in case of a conflict. All the local conflicts in Middle East were not the Flogger's real environment and it performed poorly due to various reasons.
This webpage offers some good and brief information on Flogger's versions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiG-23
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Is it a original MiG-23M or a warzaw pact MiG-23MF. Did you got any documentation with this exhibit?lewradar said:
Any pictures of it?
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lewradar
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mrdetonator
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lewradar said:
Nice, if I may wish something, then I would like to see photos of the Mig-23M cockpit and all instrument panels in detail. If you are interested, I can offer you mine, I`ve detailed cockpit photos of the Czech Mig-23MF/ML. Deal?
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lewradar said:
Like mrdetonator I would like to see pictures of the cockpit section and additionally pictures of the vertical fin.
Probably they got some documentation and manuals with it. So it would be interesting which radar was used with it (rp-23D, DII or DIII) and which autopilot version was integrated (SAU-23A 1. or 2. series)?!
Last but not least where did they get it from and which was the manufacturing year...
mrdetonator
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Yes I forgot, look for stenciling near the radar radome, we need to know the radar type depicted here as the izd.N003E.(mig-23ml). Also look for any other stenciling on the aircraft, thanks
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lewradar
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I can provide some detail:
MiG-23M is cn 024003607
MiG-27 is cn 61912507006
also a 2002 press release says:
"On Wednesday 22nd May 2002 two new aircraft were delivered to Newark Air Museums Winthorpe Showground Site in eastern Nottinghamshire. The two Mig aircraft have been placed on loan with
the museum by Hawarden Air Services of Hawarden, Clwyd, North Wales.
The Newark haulage company J.R.Marriott Ltd transported both aircraft to the museum on special low-loader trailers and they have been unloaded and partially reassembled ready for display.
These former front line ground attack and air defence fighters, both saw service with the Latvian and the former Soviet Union Air Forces during the late 1970s and 1980s, before being retired from service in the early 1990s."
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lewradar
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Well, I saw the MiG-23M but being outside it is in bad condition - most of the stencils were dim to nonexistent. however I attach a selection of the requested views - no radar stencilling however.
Question: what is the small item on the third picture
Note that the TP-23 is missing - witnesss marks and cable remain
Question: what is the small item on the third picture
Note that the TP-23 is missing - witnesss marks and cable remain
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lewradar
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lewradar
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lewradar
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I have been researching. The MiG-23S carried a mix of R-3S and R-3R missiles. Is it possible that early MiG-23M ac were designed to do the same and that the two antennae are for tuning the 3R missiles prior to launch.
Anyone know where the Rx antennae were on the R-3R?
look in top RH corner of photo
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mrdetonator
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Hello Lewradar, thanks for the pictures. Excuse me that I`m late, I spent a week abroad. The stencils on the third picture mean the "насос охлаждения С-23", it means "the cooling pump of the Sapfir S-23". The "weird" item on the cover is probably some kind of indicator of the cooling system for the ground personal, although it dissapeared on the Mig-23MF version.
On my picture above you can see russian letters "I" and "N" with the letter "A" in the indicator. The "I" means pulse, the "N" continuous and the A is one of four LITERA PRF frequencies of the S-23. Have you seen similar "LITERA" indicator on the Mig-23M?
Ohh, have you not opened the canopy? I could tell you how to open it without any air-pressure, do not worry it is not that heavy. So, what about the cockpit shots, where are they, is there something visible?
Interesting, those antennas are missing on the Mig-23MF/ML. Also, I do not have any details about the R-3R, because they haven`t been used in our airforce. My first thought was that it might be an antenna of the SRO/SRZO-2 "CHROM-NICKEL" IFF system. The operating frequency of the IFF system was a lot of higher than 13GHz AFAIK. I'll try to figure out more about it.
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lewradar said:
@lewradar
Many thanks for the pictures! Did you also asked for available documentation for this item and about the SAU-23 variant used with it?
About this interesting antenna:
Like mrdetonator I can confirm that this antenna is not available with the former german MiG-23MF/ML.
The R-3R missile was used with the german MiG-21bis, but I currently have no further information. The R-3R was to be used with the R-22 radar. I'm not sure about the RP-21, but I guess this was not possible. I will try to find out more.
In general any additional pictures are welcome...
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lewradar
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MiG-23S Cockpit
Recently found:
http://walkarounds.airforce.ru/avia/rus/mig/mig-23s/index.htm
Pretty intersting ... a view into the cockpit of a Mig-23S.
Recently found:
http://walkarounds.airforce.ru/avia/rus/mig/mig-23s/index.htm
Pretty intersting ... a view into the cockpit of a Mig-23S.
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Would like to come back to the MiG-23M exhibit at Newark. Lewradar had posted the following pictures:
Although it is only a guess I have an idea what the antenna is for.
During the development of the MiG-23 it was planned to have 4x R-23 missiles as one possible weapon load.
They tested this configuration with the prototypes:
Source: www.airwar.ru
It seems to me that this MiG-23M was able to carry 4x R-23 missiles.
Why that? Before launch of a R-23R the RGS-23 seeker is tuned by the HF signal of the KNP device. The signal is feed into the rearward antennas of the R-23R (look at the picture attached).
The signal is provided by a antenna integrated into the APU-23M1 missile rail. Have a look at the antenna on the attached pictures(the dielectric trapezoid is hiding the waveguide).
The position of the fuselage antenna of the MiG-23M in Newark (first image) fits exactly into this picture if you virtually position a R-23R at the fuselage. Additionally you will find a cavity in the fuselage right before the landing gear. This could be for the rudder of the R-23R, which is supporting my conclusion.
The MiG-23M might be a prototype, but it is interesting that they didn't gave up this weapon load configuration with the prototypes.
Could somebody provide additional closeups of the MiG-23M in Newark or other?
Although it is only a guess I have an idea what the antenna is for.
During the development of the MiG-23 it was planned to have 4x R-23 missiles as one possible weapon load.
They tested this configuration with the prototypes:
Source: www.airwar.ru
It seems to me that this MiG-23M was able to carry 4x R-23 missiles.
Why that? Before launch of a R-23R the RGS-23 seeker is tuned by the HF signal of the KNP device. The signal is feed into the rearward antennas of the R-23R (look at the picture attached).
The signal is provided by a antenna integrated into the APU-23M1 missile rail. Have a look at the antenna on the attached pictures(the dielectric trapezoid is hiding the waveguide).
The position of the fuselage antenna of the MiG-23M in Newark (first image) fits exactly into this picture if you virtually position a R-23R at the fuselage. Additionally you will find a cavity in the fuselage right before the landing gear. This could be for the rudder of the R-23R, which is supporting my conclusion.
The MiG-23M might be a prototype, but it is interesting that they didn't gave up this weapon load configuration with the prototypes.
Could somebody provide additional closeups of the MiG-23M in Newark or other?
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mrdetonator
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It is not noticeable but those underfuselage "semirecessed" missiles are R-23R only,crossiathh said:
Source: www.airwar.ru
missiles on the wing pylons are R-23T. I assume that when launching the R-23R from underfuselage
hard points, the missile exhaust stream may have disrupted the airflow inside the intakes and caused engine compressor to surge not to mention about missile safe separation from the aircraft body under G conditions. Therefore they abandoned the idea of R-23R carried under fuselage and fitted the waveguide inside the wing pylon(APU-23). Notice the pylon carrying the R-23T, I`m sure it is missing the waveguide for the R-23R.
The small fuselage waveguide on Newark Mig-23M denotes that even if they abandoned the idea of underfuselage R-23R, the waveguide was not removed and it appeared on "many serie produced" mig-23M. Afterwards the underfuselage waveguide dissapeared entirely.
P.S. is the small waveguide placed on both sides of Newark Mig-23M fuselage?
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mrdetonator said:
According to lewradar's original post the antenna is on both sides of the fuselage ...
lewradar said:
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Although medium quality this pictures is pretty interesting showing a MiG-23 with the early APU-23 wing pylons:
http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00737031
Could it be that the early APU-23 found their way into service?
http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00737031
Could it be that the early APU-23 found their way into service?
mrdetonator
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;D This is happening more and more often to me that I`m searching the internet for good detail information or photos but completely forgeting that they already are stored in my database. :-[ In case of the APU-23 predecessor I made these pictures a few months ago in Monino. I also remember looking for the small fuselage antennas, but did not find any. Well, I hope so I was looking for them.... :-[ The cockpit seems to be lacking radar panels, so I assume this Mig-23 b/n 231 is some sort of prototype. ..
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mrdetonator
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Great pictures! Are there more to show? Best close-ups I've seen so far of this exhibit.BTW, the b/n 231 is misleading, because it was originally assigned to the first prototype - should still be found just behind this one in Monino.
It is one of the first prototypes, probably number three - according to some publications.
mrdetonator
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that`s all, but from the first prototype 231 there are some too, interested?crossiathh said:
BTW, the b/n 231 is misleading, because it was originally assigned to the first prototype - should still be found just behind this one in Monino.
It is one of the first prototypes, probably number three - according to some publications.
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Of course!mrdetonator said:
mrdetonator
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To be honest, I was not in the mood to take more pictures, migs were many times overpainted, though rusted and misery condition. Stencils disappeared or washed out.crossiathh said:Of course!mrdetonator said:
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Following the above stated theory that early MiG-23/MiG-23M were using only the early style APU-23 carrier and assuming this was not be able to use it with the R-23R where is a chance to somehow "proof" this point with the MiG-23M in Lincolnshire museum.
In the wing right above the APU-23 carrier should be a wave guide duct visible on this picture:
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/mig-23ml/images/mig-23ml_046_of_120.jpg
The hatch is partly cutted to provide room for the wave guide and other wiring.
The MiG-23M in Lincolnshire has a fully closed hatch ... so someone has to remove it to check
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99.0;attach=31390;image
Unfortunatly the museum didn't answer to a request so far. :-\
In the wing right above the APU-23 carrier should be a wave guide duct visible on this picture:
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/isaac_gershman/mig-23ml/images/mig-23ml_046_of_120.jpg
The hatch is partly cutted to provide room for the wave guide and other wiring.
The MiG-23M in Lincolnshire has a fully closed hatch ... so someone has to remove it to check
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99.0;attach=31390;image
Unfortunatly the museum didn't answer to a request so far. :-\
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Nice pic. Thanks.
Here's one curiosity, MIG 23 with SFRJ markings. Nine of them were being overhauled in Zmaj (not related to Zmaj aircraft factory) overhauling facility in Velika Gorica (suburb of Zagreb) in early 1990s. When war in Croatia broke out, the military removed planes and equipment and moved them to Moma Stanojlovic overhauling facility which is situated in Belgrade's Batajnica military airport.
They were moved in boxes and I assume that two decades later, they are still in boxes. Some sort of agreement about their fate was probably struck, because (according to local press) that was one of the conditions for the acquisition of the Utva Lasta 95 basic trainers for the Iraqi's Air Force.
They were moved in boxes and I assume that two decades later, they are still in boxes. Some sort of agreement about their fate was probably struck, because (according to local press) that was one of the conditions for the acquisition of the Utva Lasta 95 basic trainers for the Iraqi's Air Force.
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a rather basic query, i have photos of an original Soviet era manufacturers model of an export MiG.23(MS?) circa late 70's with what looks to be the smaller 'Jay Bird' radome but loaded with R.23/AA.7 Apex missiles (one each IR. and SARH.) on the wing glove pylons and 2x R.60/AA.8 Aphid's pylon mounted beneath the fuselage
... did such a configuration exist with the smaller radar unit ? or was this made as a marketing piece not based an actual intention merely showing possible alternates ?
many thanks, Joe
... did such a configuration exist with the smaller radar unit ? or was this made as a marketing piece not based an actual intention merely showing possible alternates ?
many thanks, Joe
