Various Vought VTOL/VSTOL/STOL projects
- Thread starter elider
- Start date
They are a group of Vought retirees who volunteer to work at the Foundation. Vought has given them responsibility for their archives. Their latest project is to restore a WWII Corsair at a cost to them of $400,000. Contributions welcome.
I emailed Vought asking for photos or drawings of the V1100 (ironically, they didn't send me this). Vought referred me to the Foundation. I called them and on a hunch asked if anyone knew the late Jay Frank Dial (a Vought model maker and a friend of mine when i was stationed at Carswell AFB, Texas, 1962-1966). The guy on the other end of the phone was a close friend of Jay and we started an email conversation. That brings us to today. Jay built some of the VFAX and the SAMI model shown on this forum previously.
He sent me several 35mm slides of some of Jay's models--A-7, F-8 and WWII aircraft. Nothing exotic yet but there is a possibility he may send me more. Problem is I don't have the capability to scan slides nor to down size them from over 2megs to a size for posting.
I emailed Vought asking for photos or drawings of the V1100 (ironically, they didn't send me this). Vought referred me to the Foundation. I called them and on a hunch asked if anyone knew the late Jay Frank Dial (a Vought model maker and a friend of mine when i was stationed at Carswell AFB, Texas, 1962-1966). The guy on the other end of the phone was a close friend of Jay and we started an email conversation. That brings us to today. Jay built some of the VFAX and the SAMI model shown on this forum previously.
He sent me several 35mm slides of some of Jay's models--A-7, F-8 and WWII aircraft. Nothing exotic yet but there is a possibility he may send me more. Problem is I don't have the capability to scan slides nor to down size them from over 2megs to a size for posting.
I realize this is the wrong forum, should be the Early Projects, but then again, it may have been barely post WWII or borderline, do you suppose these Vought folks would have any info on what I understand was the 'original' F6U design, which was a twin engined recip fighter similar to the Grumman F7F? I'd also like to see more on Vought's entry against the Grumman S2F. (Which, IMHO, from the pic I've seen of the mockup, looks like a mixture of S2F, E-2 & a touch of OV-1. 
)
)elider said:
- Joined
- 13 June 2007
- Messages
- 2,108
- Reaction score
- 2,762
A few more of what I have on the VTOL side of Vought - should have paid attention and place the HSV designs elsewhere.
Enjoy the Day!
Enjoy the Day!
Attachments
- Joined
- 1 April 2006
- Messages
- 11,123
- Reaction score
- 8,807
- Joined
- 13 June 2007
- Messages
- 2,108
- Reaction score
- 2,762
Nice find Gregory - thanks for the link!
BTW - did you get the last drawing I sent you?
Enjoy the Day! Mark
BTW - did you get the last drawing I sent you?
Enjoy the Day! Mark
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 33,871
- Reaction score
- 14,213
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 33,871
- Reaction score
- 14,213
Hi,
please look to those projects from Vought,I suggest that (only my opinion);
the Picture 2 may be V.464,the picture 3 may be V.465 and the picture 5
may be V.485.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19670005609_1967005609.pdf
please look to those projects from Vought,I suggest that (only my opinion);
the Picture 2 may be V.464,the picture 3 may be V.465 and the picture 5
may be V.485.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19670005609_1967005609.pdf
Attachments
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
All I can read there is:
Figure 3-26
3-65/66
Figure 3-27
3-67/68
Figure 3-28
3-69/70
So these are not Model numbers, only image numbers related to the text they appeared in.
Of much greater interest in the caption of picture #4, which says: "General Arrangement HLH 20(?)-ton."
It seems that this Vought design may have been submitted for the HLH competition against Boeing Vertol's and Sikorsky's designs.
Figure 3-26
3-65/66
Figure 3-27
3-67/68
Figure 3-28
3-69/70
So these are not Model numbers, only image numbers related to the text they appeared in.
Of much greater interest in the caption of picture #4, which says: "General Arrangement HLH 20(?)-ton."
It seems that this Vought design may have been submitted for the HLH competition against Boeing Vertol's and Sikorsky's designs.
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 33,871
- Reaction score
- 14,213
- Joined
- 26 October 2010
- Messages
- 152
- Reaction score
- 24
Mark Nankivil said:
Looks like US/UK ASTOVL study work....
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 33,871
- Reaction score
- 14,213
Hi,
here is a stowable rotor attack aircraft design.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/757267.pdf
here is a stowable rotor attack aircraft design.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/757267.pdf
Attachments
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
Jemiba said:The references in the paper (thanks for the link !) seem to accredit this design to
M.Kretz, probably a frenchman, judging the title of the mentioned source.
No need to guess, just look at the very first page of the report. It says: "Advisory Group for Aerospace Research and Development - Paris, France"...
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
Sorry, the best confirmation of the fact he is French (or at least worked for a French company at the time) is in the very title of the article itself:
FIELDS OF APPLICATION OF JET FLAPPED ROTORS
by
M.Kretz
Chief Engineer
Giravions Dorand
Suresnes, France
Dorand may not be a household name, but it definitely used to be one of the few aircraft companies specialized in rotorcraft design.
Also, the text says: "The VTOL stoppable-rotor aircraft is the third example illustrating the field of application of jet-flap rotors (Fig. 14). The project presented here is a particular case of projects effected under contract for the Centre de Prospective et d'Evaluation (CPE). corresponding to a VTOL craft with a stoppable and stowable rotor (Ref. 10)."
FIELDS OF APPLICATION OF JET FLAPPED ROTORS
by
M.Kretz
Chief Engineer
Giravions Dorand
Suresnes, France
Dorand may not be a household name, but it definitely used to be one of the few aircraft companies specialized in rotorcraft design.
Also, the text says: "The VTOL stoppable-rotor aircraft is the third example illustrating the field of application of jet-flap rotors (Fig. 14). The project presented here is a particular case of projects effected under contract for the Centre de Prospective et d'Evaluation (CPE). corresponding to a VTOL craft with a stoppable and stowable rotor (Ref. 10)."
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
"Dorand was a good clue. Found this in my Dorand folder:
(from Aviation Week 1968 )"
Very nice, Jemiba! We're getting somewhere. Your contribution allowed me to find more about the Vought/Dorand collaboration here: http://www.aeros-design.com/index.php?/projects/reaction-drives/
(from Aviation Week 1968 )"
Very nice, Jemiba! We're getting somewhere. Your contribution allowed me to find more about the Vought/Dorand collaboration here: http://www.aeros-design.com/index.php?/projects/reaction-drives/
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
It is not a very-well known part of U.S. aircraft history, but L.T.V.'s Vought Aerospace division once studied helicopter designs.
During the 1960s, several companies such as LTV (Vought), Giravions Dorand, Bölkow Entwicklungen KG, and the Hughes Co. all provided concepts for a materials update in the ejection of cold, warm and/or hot cycle air.
Instead of working seperately, LTV and the French Giravions Dorand came to a co-operative agreement over a common development of flap-rotor (teetering rotor) technology, with interest from the U.S. Army for high-speed helicopters and a NASA study contract. Dorand's jet-flap DH.2011 rotor, in which used gas was ejected through slots in each blade's trailing edge, was thoroughly tested by NASA.
Vought designed several large helicopter projects for the Army's High Speed Helicopter (HSH) and High Lift Helicopter (HLH) competitions, which were to rely heavily on Dorand's rotor technology. Dorand and Vought also studied compound aircraft with retractable rotors (a configuration also studied by Lockheed and Sikorsky).
Early in the 1970s, LTV set up a separate Vought Helicopters entity, marketing French helicopters such as the SA 316 Alouette III and the SA 341 Gazelle. This didn't last for long, and LTV sold its helicopter division to Aerospatiale, when they first attempted to set up shop on U.S. soil.
During the 1960s, several companies such as LTV (Vought), Giravions Dorand, Bölkow Entwicklungen KG, and the Hughes Co. all provided concepts for a materials update in the ejection of cold, warm and/or hot cycle air.
Instead of working seperately, LTV and the French Giravions Dorand came to a co-operative agreement over a common development of flap-rotor (teetering rotor) technology, with interest from the U.S. Army for high-speed helicopters and a NASA study contract. Dorand's jet-flap DH.2011 rotor, in which used gas was ejected through slots in each blade's trailing edge, was thoroughly tested by NASA.
Vought designed several large helicopter projects for the Army's High Speed Helicopter (HSH) and High Lift Helicopter (HLH) competitions, which were to rely heavily on Dorand's rotor technology. Dorand and Vought also studied compound aircraft with retractable rotors (a configuration also studied by Lockheed and Sikorsky).
Early in the 1970s, LTV set up a separate Vought Helicopters entity, marketing French helicopters such as the SA 316 Alouette III and the SA 341 Gazelle. This didn't last for long, and LTV sold its helicopter division to Aerospatiale, when they first attempted to set up shop on U.S. soil.
Attachments
- Joined
- 11 March 2006
- Messages
- 8,638
- Reaction score
- 3,558
The Jet-Flap-Rotor was actually tested :
A remark in our own account:
- The kind of source citation by Stargazer in post #12 seems to me a very good one indeed and I'll try
to use it for my own posts in the future ! Clear, avoiding confusion and the source is saved just by
downloading the picture. Please remember, that the boring task of giving the source can avoid copy right issues. And probably some of you still remember, that this site already was down for several days because of such issues !
(- I split the Vought/Vought-Dorand posts from the rather general "US VSTOL Projects" thread (which I think I will lock for the benefit of more special threads) and tried to clean it up a bit to avoid double posts.)
A remark in our own account:
- The kind of source citation by Stargazer in post #12 seems to me a very good one indeed and I'll try
to use it for my own posts in the future ! Clear, avoiding confusion and the source is saved just by
downloading the picture.
Please remember, that the boring task of giving the source can avoid copy right issues. And probably some of you still remember, that this site already was down for several days because of such issues !(- I split the Vought/Vought-Dorand posts from the rather general "US VSTOL Projects" thread (which I think I will lock for the benefit of more special threads) and tried to clean it up a bit to avoid double posts.)
Attachments
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
Please use the generic (titles beginning with "Various...") such as this one:
- For generic images or information.
- For types that are either unidentified or improperly identified
- For types that you have too little information about (one picture, a couple of lines).
- Vought ADAM and ADAM II V/STOL projects [link]
- Vought (LTV) V-517 and V-520 Sea Control Ship (SCS) fighters [link]
- Vought (LTV) V-530 and V-534 (US Navy "Type A" proposals) [link]
- Vought (LTV) TF-120 V/STOL Tandem Fan Fighter [link]
- Vought (LTV) SF-106 and SF-121 « Superfly » VATOL fighters [link]
- Vought V-3010 Sealifter: Extreme STOL Amphibious Transport [link]
- Ling-Temco-Vought XC-142A V/STOL tilt-wing turboprop transport prototypes [link]
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
Thiel said:
Given the similarities between the P916 and the XC-142, I wonder if this design could have been drafted during the SOFTA studies. In a recent thread I shared the Scaled Composites TIDDS proposals, which Burt Rutan studied for LTV under SOFTA with the thought of combining features from both the C-142 and V-22. This here aircraft looks a lot more conventional but it could have been an LTV study for the same program prior to Rutan's involvement. Just my two cents at this stage.
Vought low observables air vehicle engineering study 1981
LOAVES....
LOAVES....
- Joined
- 25 June 2009
- Messages
- 14,256
- Reaction score
- 4,602
Interesting comparison, but there are notable differences. The trailing edge behind the engine exhausts is diamond-shaped on the RCS model, not on the LOAF-11. Also the fins are much closer at the tips, and the wings are not pointed.
Similar threads
-
-
Vought ADAM and ADAM II V/STOL projects- Started by Jemiba
- Replies: 110
-
Vought V-3010 Sealifter: Extreme STOL Amphibious Transport
- Started by Stargazer
- Replies: 1
-
-