Sikorsky flying crane projects

Antonio

Antonio

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Dear topic starters,

In my opinion, we should take one minute to choose the most precisse and informative tittle and descriptions for every new topic.
This would be a benefit for all the comunity here because it would be easier to find particular information in the forum.Organized info it is also more pleasant to read.
And please, try to avoid dispersion and off topic.

Thanks :)
 
Re: Posting Guidelines - PLEASE READ!


I agree! It's frustrating to see new postings to a subject of interest, only to find it's totally irrelevant!


pometablava said:
I think Overscan should consider to rename this topic ;)

Dear topic starters,

In my opinion, we should take one minute to choose the most precisse and informative tittle and descriptions for every new topic.
This would be a benefit for all the comunity here because it would be easier to find particular information in the forum.Organized info it is also more pleasant to read.
And please, try to avoid dispersion and off topic.

Thanks :)
Click to expand...
 
Jemiba said:
... and in RAF Flying Review 1/62 there were two helicopter types, unknown to me :
a flying-crane version of the S-60 and a Lockheed four-seat helicopter without any
designation :
Click to expand...

Do you mean the S-61 (Sea King)??

The S-60 was a flying crane from the get-go, although it was piston-engined, using the dynamic components of the S-56/H-37 Mojave.
SikorskyS-60.jpg
 
Yes, but in this drawing it's obviously turbine powered, I think.-
 
Jemiba said:
Yes, but in this drawing it's obviously turbine powered, I think.-
Click to expand...

Wonder if the source had a confusion between the S-60 and S-64?
 
Don't think so, as the S-64 was mentioned in this article, too.
 
I would venture a guess and say there was a typo in Flying Review and that it should've stated it was a flying crane version of the S-61.

From looking at the drawing, the length appears to be closer to that of the S-61/H-3 as opposed to the S-60. The shape of the doghouse and the fact that it has a five blade tail rotor also appears to indicate that it was a S-61 derivative.

I've seen engineering data on the S-60. One of the documents dated prior to 1/62 illustrates a turbine version of the S-60 and the layout was identical to that of the S-64.

The S-60 still survives, albeit in many pieces, at the New England Air Museum:

http://www.neam.org/inventory/airprofile.asp?ID=123

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0569663&WxsIERv=Fvxbefxl%20F-60%20Fxlpenar&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Fvxbefxl%20Nvepensg&QtODMg=Jvaqfbe%20Ybpxf%20%28Unegsbeq%20%2F%20Fcevatsvryq%29%20-%20Oenqyrl%20Vagreangvbany%20%28OQY%20%2F%20XOQY%29&ERDLTkt=HFN%20-%20Pbaarpgvphg&ktODMp=Ncevy%2029%2C%202004&BP=1&WNEb25u=Qry%20Ynhturel&xsIERvdWdsY=A807&MgTUQtODMgKE=Pbpxcvg%20nern%20bs%20gur%20F-60%20va%20fgbentr%20ng%20gur%20Arj%20Ratynaq%20Nve%20Zhfrhz.%20Gur%20shfryntr%20vf%20nyfb%20va%20fgbentr.%20Guvf%20nvepensg%20jnf%20vaibyirq%20va%20fbzr%20glcr%20bs%20nppvqrag%20va%201961%20juvpu%20cerfhznoyl%20pnhfrq%20gur%20frcnengvba%20bs%20gur%20pbpxcvg%20sebz%20gur%20shfryntr.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=1033&NEb25uZWxs=2004-05-03%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&width=1500&height=1012&sok=JURER%20%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nvepensg%2Cnveyvar%2Ccynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencure%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepensg_trarevp%2Cpa%2Cpbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%2B%22F-60%22%27%20VA%20OBBYRNA%20ZBQR%29%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=0513311

One of these days, I need to contact the museum to see if I can get some close up photos of it.
 
Hi,

The Sikorsky CH-53E as a high speed flying crane helicopter.
 

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In Aviation Week 1967 17-22, there was a concept, just called "Heavy-Lift
Logistic System", that, judging the artist's impression, could have been based
on the CH-53, although it bears not much resemblance to the other picture
 

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I always thought that CH-53E is Super Stallion...
 
Sentinel Chicken said:
hesham said:
Hi,

The Sikorsky CH-53E as a high speed crane helicopter.
Click to expand...
Is that a real proposal or someone's kitbash?
Click to expand...

It is a kitbash for a heavy lift. It's not going to lift a lot with all that wing surface in the downwash. The 'high speed' is rather silly too since the flat plate drag on the external cargo will eat up the aircrafts power margin at anything above 120 knots... if that.
 
When I was searching for the CH-53 crane (is it or is it not ?), I found another
Sikorsky crane heli concept, with a MTOW of nearly 43 ts and a payload of 21.5ts,
intended for carrying an ICBM. Novelty would have been the 11-blade rotor with
the large lenticular hub fairing and twin tail rotors (from Aviation Week 1968 19-26).
The dynamic system would principally have been the same, as in the S-64 project,
shown in Flugwelt 8/1958.
 

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With reference to the mention of the CH-53 in the previous posts, I think we really mean the CH-54. This was the Sikorsky S-64 Tarhe which was based on the S60 design of 1959. The first S64 flew on 9 May 1962. Six pre production aircraft were ordered in June 1963 as YCH 54A-and serials 64-14202/14207, whilst serial 64-4256 probably represents a cancelled order of the YCH-54A. 54 CH-54As production aircraft were built with serials 66-18408/18413, 67-18414/18431 and 68-18432/18459.
The CH-54B was a heavier version with dual main wheels and T73-P-700 engines and 37 were built with serials 69-18460/18484, 70-18485/18490. 71-18491/18498. The 22 universal pods that were used in conjunction with these aircraft were serialled separately as 68-18578/18599. The first of these was accepted on 28 June 1968 and they were fitted with all support systems and could accommodate 45 combat troops. They had an interior length of 27’5”, 8.36 m, a width of 8’10”, 2.69 m and a height of 6’6”, 1.98 m.
 
This picture comes from an advert by Sikorsky in Aviation Week 1970, showing
a design for a 23t heavy lift helicopter.
 

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Hi,

on archive film about Sikorsky and his helicopter aircraft and projects,
I saw a very large flying crane helicopter project developed from S-64,
with four big legs,and it look like the Boeing HLH of 1970,does anyone
know it ?.
 

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Scanned from an old Sikorsky promotional calendar, some color renderings of the HLH and S-64B (3-engine Skycrane).
 

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... and a manufacturer's model of the S-64B.
 

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Does anyone have any specifications for the S-64B?


Regards
Pioneer
 
Concept model of the Sikorsky DS-160 (DS- for Design Study) early crane helicopter project. Horizontal tail rotor is noteworthy. Factory 3-view drawing came with the model (copies can be obtained from another source -- just search DS-160 on SPF).
 

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Another picture of the DS-160 model, with wheel undercarriage and passenger pod attached. This feature that would be offered on the later Skycrane.
 

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Were there any planned replacements/successors for this aircraft?

I know that in terms of role they were replaced by CH53's and Chinooks, but I was wondering more in terms of concept; an aircraft with minimal airframe intended to carry underslung loads.

I always felt that the concept of the aircraft being able to carry fitted out modules; such as operating theatres or command facilities was a good one (Maybe I was to much of a childhood fan on the Eagle Transporters in Space 1999).

I wondered if the concept was such a "one hit wonder" because it was limited to transporting underslung loads?

Regards.
 
There was a CH-54B that was significantly larger than the CH-54A. Sikorsky pitched it to the Army, which was not interested. Then the Army asked for an upgrade to the 54A which was designated the 54B. Put another way, the 54B that was actually built was not the same as the original 54B that was proposed.

There were a few similar concepts, but they never got very far. Although the concept of saving weight by just building the frame and not a heavy cabin seemed logical, in actual military operations, there was a lot greater need for a cabin that could also transport troops. The CH-54 was not as versatile as the Army wanted.
 
an aircraft with minimal airframe intended to carry underslung loads
Click to expand...

Boeing's HLH (XCH-62A) was exactly that, though it was a huge helicopter. Unfortunately the program was canceled before the prototype was complete.

Oh, by the way... could a moderator change the title for "Tahre" to "Tarhe"? It will help further searches in the search engine. Thanks!
 
Thanks for the info.

Any specs on the original CH54B?

Regards.
 
Why not add the dash between CH & 54 to correct the designation while you're at it?


Stargazer2006 said:
an aircraft with minimal airframe intended to carry underslung loads
Click to expand...

Boeing's HLH (XCH-62A) was exactly that, though it was a huge helicopter. Unfortunately the program was canceled before the prototype was complete.

Oh, by the way... could a moderator change the title for "Tahre" to "Tarhe"? It will help further searches in the search engine. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
JohnR said:
Thanks for the info.

Any specs on the original CH54B?

Regards.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll post them. Also have some artwork. It looks like a 54A, only somewhat longer. I think I have a side by side comparison.
 
frank said:
Why not add the dash between CH & 54 to correct the designation while you're at it?
Click to expand...

Sure. If I had my way, I'd go correcting all these annoying typos in the titles, believe you me!
 
Here are two images, along with the statistics. Sorry these are not better. I have the artist image of the CH-54B lifting the tank as a color print, but can't scan it because it's framed.
 

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Is it just me, or does that CH-54B seem to bear a distinct resemblance to the H-53? As I remember, the CH-54 is the S-64 while the H-53 (the twin-engined verions, anyway) is the S-65. I could see some design data crossover; it also give an idea about how to go modelling a Ch-54B.
 
Not sure, as no designation is given, but this picture from Aviation week 17/67
could show the C-54B, too, I think.
 

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I think the S-64 and S-65 were designed at about the same time and are indeed quite similar in a number of ways.
Also, I recall the original S-65 design was not produced. What we know as the H-53 series is the S-65A and S-65C.
 
Blackstar,

Once again thanks for the info. and the images.

What was the intended powerplant?

Stargazer2006,

With regard to the S-64 and 65, I had wondered if there were any proposals for this concept based on the powerplant and rotor arrangements of what became the CH-53. (Aren't you proud I used dashes)

Regards.
 
Powerplant would have been either three GE T-64-16 engines or three Lycoming T-55-11 engines.
 
The attached photo shows a basic model of Igor Sikorsky's sesqui-rotor layout, which would evolve into the DS-160 crane helicopter study. This model is dated 1948, which suggests the DS-160 was designed that same year at the earliest, not in 1945 as described elsewhere.
 

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is part of an article in French about the Sikorsky UTV (Universal Tactical Vehicle) helicopter "project" which was a proposed flying crane version of the Sikorsky S-61L. It is part of a larger article about Sikorsky flying crane helicopters in general......

The article comes from the 3rd February 1961 issue of Les Ailes......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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In Paul Beaver's Military Helicopters handbook written in the 1980s, when comes to the then Hughes TH-55 Osage, theres a brief mention that it was offered to the German Army Aviation as a trainer, equipped with a Porsche engine.

Also in the Vietnam Helicopter Handbook by Barry Gregory, when the section on the CH-54 Tarhe, it said that one was demo'd by Sikorsky to the Bundeswehr.

Does anyone have any brochures or pamphlets detailing of the above or even conceptual pics of the helos in German markings at all?

Cheers
 

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