Exotic Fuel for Aircraft and Rocket

I found in Robert L. Forward novel "Saturn Rukh"
this Synthetic Fuel: metastabil Helium NHe64*

know someone about this is a real proposal or is this pure Sci-Fi ?
(Forward had Habit to put proposals in his novels)

the idea of metastable helium is this:
Three helium atoms are aligned in a metastable state.
When it reverts to normal state it releases 0.48 giga joules per kilogram.
only problem is that it tends to decay spontaneously, with a lifetime of a mere 2.3 hours.

in "Saturn Rukh" they solve those problems.
by aligned 64 helium atoms around one nitrogen atom with laser
the Fuel look like blue mercury with densty of 13.5 tons/m3
heat up to 2200° kelvin, NHe64* disintegrated and release energy
isp is 3058 sec

Forward quote a George Phillips from
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) in Boulder, Colorado
and his paper "The Properties of NHe64*"

Michel Van said:

I found in Robert L. Forward novel "Saturn Rukh"
this Synthetic Fuel: metastabil Helium NHe64*

know someone about this is a real proposal or is this pure Sci-Fi ?

Click to expand...

Half-and-half. Metastable propellants provide all kinds of potential, but it's largely theoretical. Sometime in the mid/let 90's there were studies of N20... not nitrous oxide, but Nitrogen-twenty. Basically a buckeyball composed not of carbon but of nitrogen. The story was that the stuff would hold together, and could contain within the buckeysphere other metastable propellents, but if you taunt the Happy Fun Buckeyball, it would explode and provide all kinds of impulse.

Problem is, I don't think anyone has figured out how to manufacture and store the stuff on an industrial scale.

Orionblamblam said:

Half-and-half. Metastable propellants provide all kinds of potential, but it's largely theoretical. Sometime in the mid/let 90's there were studies of N20... not nitrous oxide, but Nitrogen-twenty. Basically a buckeyball composed not of carbon but of nitrogen. The story was that the stuff would hold together, and could contain within the buckeysphere other metastable propellents, but if you taunt the Happy Fun Buckeyball, it would explode and provide all kinds of impulse.

Problem is, I don't think anyone has figured out how to manufacture and store the stuff on an industrial scale.

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Oh that's new to me !
there were also idea to use C60 Buckyball as rocket fuel, as replace Kerosene
or make from C60 a "super hydrocarbon" Fuel
but nobody has figured out how to manufacture that stuff

i remember vague of a USAF program for new Fuel
Atomic hydrogene pebbles in pool of liquid helium
but no one has figured out how to pump the Pebbles into Engine.
with out draining the Helium pool

You mean attach carbons to the buckyball?

make from C60 a "super hydrocarbon" Fuel

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KJ_Lesnick said:

You mean attach carbons to the buckyball?

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yes. mostly hydrogene or hydrocarbon molecules
there was also the idea to fill up in C60 sphere with fuel

a new form Nitrogen can become intresting for new fuel or explosives
Polymere Nitrogen
at pressure of 110 GPa and temperature of 2000°K its form a metastable "diamond"
do to his high instability Polymere Nitrogen is 5 time powerfull as today best Explosives!

more here
Eremets, M.I., A.G. Gavriliuk, I.A. Trojan, D.A. Dzivenko and R. Boehler
Single-bonded form of nitrogen
Nature Materials, August 2004; published online 4 July 2004, http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nmat1146

original German Announcement by Max-Planck-Gesellschaft
http://www.mpg.de/bilderBerichteDokumente/dokumentation/pressemitteilungen/2004/pressemitteilung200408022/index.html

Michel Van said:

I found in Robert L. Forward novel "Saturn Rukh"
this Synthetic Fuel: metastabil Helium NHe64*

know someone about this is a real proposal or is this pure Sci-Fi ?

Click to expand...

Never heard of metastable helium NHe64*, I had heard of the Helium-IV-A form before, so thanks for the interesting find. Problem with these things is usually the short half life. When googling also found this patent and this patent.

Metastable Helium Rockets

Metastable substances are materials that exist in a long-lived excited molecular state. Metastable Helium is one such substance, comprised of a Helium atom with two electrons, one in the first orbital level and one in the second orbital level. The electrons have parallel spin properties. The molecule is balanced on a knife's edge of quantum forces. The electrons want to enter into the ground state (where both electrons occupy the first orbital level) but are forbidden because of the forces acting upon them from their locked spin states. The atom can remain in this state for a mean time of 2.3 hours, but just a small input of energy (from jostling, molecule formation, electromagnetic forces, etc.) will send it over the edge into its ground state, resulting in a large release of energy, about 114 kilocalories per gram, or roughly twice the energy of the most powerful conventional chemical fuel, atomic hydrogen.
Solar boiler concept; photo courtesy of NASA

Solar boiler concept; photo courtesy of NASA

Metastable helium can be manufactured by several methods. Absorption of photons via laser or particle beam can excite the atom to its metastable state.

But the true problem with metastable helium is not in obtaining it, but in storing it. The 2.3 hour limitation only applies to a completely isolated atom; metastable helium packed in with anything else, even other helium atoms, will result in jostling and it losing its metastable state in a fraction of a second.

Research is being conducted to see if metastable helium can be formed into a room-temperature solid if bonded with diatomic helium molecules, made from one ground state atom and one excited state atom. This solid, called Helium-IV-A, can in turn be used as a solid rocket propellant. Simply heating the fuel is enough to release the energy, so an oxidizer is not needed. These rockets would produce a specific impulse of about 2200 seconds—compared to the 450-second specific impulse for modern liquid hydrogen-oxygen rockets—and would have enormous thrust capabilities, on the order of 31,000 meters per second, matching types of proposed plasma and fusion rockets.
bookcover

Robert Forward, in his fiction novel Saturn Rukh, suggested bonding 64 metastable helium atoms to a single excited nitrogen atom, forming a stable super-molecule called Meta. Whether this is possible remains to be seen. However, as the Meta fuel is much purer than the Helium-IV-A form above, it might allow a metastable helium rocket's specific impulse capabilities to jump to around 3150 seconds.

Courtesy of http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3c2.html:

Meta-helium He*: SPIN-POLARIZED TRIPLET HELIUM. Three helium atoms are aligned in a metastable state. When it reverts to normal state it releases 0.48 gigjoules per kilogram. The trouble is that it tends to decay spontaneously, with a lifetime of a mere 2.3 hours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meta-helium He IV-A: DIATOMIC METASTABLE HELIUM. One normal and one excited helium atom are paired to form a stable solid.

The trick is to keep the touchy stuff from exploding prematurely and destroying the spacecraft. The fuel is stored in a resonant waveguide.

According to the table on the above site, Meta-helium He* should give a (theoretical) Isp of around 4300 s (roughly ten times that of a good chemically fueled engine), with Meta-helium He IV-A giving about half that. But, as Orionblamblam points out, even if someone found out how to make and store the stuff, it would tend to go BOOM with little if any provocation.

Anyway, fuggeddaboutit and go with antimatter. Now there's a fuel that provides fun & games for the whole family.... ;D

Regards & all, and a Happy Easter,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark

What about the study for a fuel for the USAF "Weapon System 110A", which would become the North American XB-70 Valkyrie bomber. ???
Graet study went into Boron-enriched "Zip Fuels", which improved the energy density of the fuel by about 40%.[6] Various US government agencies had been experimenting with zip fuels for some time, and they believed that once the problems they were having were worked out, zip fuel would become almost universal for high-speed aircraft. Although the advantages of a zip fueled aircraft would not be as great as those of a nuclear powered one, it would offer a real performance increase and was a relatively straightforward development of existing engines and fuels.
Zip fuel was to be used in the afterburners to improve range by 10% to 15% over conventional fuel.

Regards
Pioneer

one reason to kill the Zip-fuel project was is costs
the other reason was Zip-fuel made gruesome things to Jetengine

the Turbine, combustion chambers, afterburner tube
were covert with Extremely poisonous adhesive similar material !

i will post more on Zip fuel next Tuesday

ZIP FUEL or High Energy Fuels HEF
was a high-priority, top-secret program in both the USAF & USN during the 1950s.

those High Energy Fuels were study:
HEF-1 ethyldiborane
HEF-2 propylpentaborane
HEF-3 ethyldecaborane
HEF-4 methyldecaborane
HEF-5 ethylacetylenedecaborane

planed use of HEF

original The B-70 design had J93-GE-5 engine
with HEF-3 in the afterburners fed from separate fuel tanks.
The BOMARC missile program also considered use of HEF in its ramjets.
The Navy also made elaborate plans to use and store HEF or "zip fuel" on carriers.
Also to use the boron rich fuel as absorber of neutrons, in nuclear-powered airplane

Advantage:
ZIP gave about 140% of the energy of JP-4 per unit weight & volume.
Disadvantages:
they were very expensive to make and store, left (extremely toxic) solid deposits
in tailpipes, Turbine

the Program was cancelled in August 1959

most date from WarbirdTech Vol. 34' by the indispensable Dennis R. Jenkins.


a Renaissance of Boron Fuel ?

Tareq Abu-Hamed from University of Minnesota
Proposed Water and Boron as Fuel for Aircrafts
so called "on demand hydrogen production"

water react with Boron form Boronoxide and Hydrogene
the Hydrogene is used for Jetengine or fuelcell -> electro motor
while the Boronoxide is stored and recycled in a Plant at Airport

Tareq Abu-Hamed study also Water and Sodium reaction for hydrogene production.

source:
Energy and our Future by Robert Das and Rudolf Das
ISBN 9789043911337
page 48-51

Evening All,
I'm working on contrail reduction and in a USAF Geophysics Research Department report from 1963 have come across a low hydrogen fuel designated 'TEF-1'.

It was ultimately used in the Ryan Model 147 Lightning Bugs over Vietnam

What is it?

Chris

Trail Elimination Fuel No.1 apparently. High in aromatics.

Chris

There is always this..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wLk2j7_KB0&t=1s



Ignition!: An Informal History of Liquid Rocket Propellants (Rutgers University Press Classics)

This newly reissued debut book in the Rutgers University Press Classics imprint is the story of the search for a rocket propellant which could be trusted to take man into space. This search was a hazardous enterprise carried out by rival labs who worked against the known laws of nature, with no guarantee of success or safety.

Acclaimed scientist and sci-fi author John Drury Clark writes with irreverent and eyewitness immediacy about the development of the explosive fuels strong enough to negate the relentless restraints of gravity. The resulting volume is as much a memoir as a work of history, sharing a behind-the-scenes view of an enterprise which eventually took men to the moon, missiles to the planets, and satellites to outer space.

Whats about using tetraoxygen as oxidizer? Or are there any news on ZIP fuels / fuels containing boron to replace hydrocarbons.

Richard N said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wLk2j7_KB0&t=1s

Amazon.com

Ignition!: An Informal History of Liquid Rocket Propellants (Rutgers University Press Classics)

This newly reissued debut book in the Rutgers University Press Classics imprint is the story of the search for a rocket propellant which could be trusted to take man into space. This search was a hazardous enterprise carried out by rival labs who worked against the known laws of nature, with no guarantee of success or safety.

Acclaimed scientist and sci-fi author John Drury Clark writes with irreverent and eyewitness immediacy about the development of the explosive fuels strong enough to negate the relentless restraints of gravity. The resulting volume is as much a memoir as a work of history, sharing a behind-the-scenes view of an enterprise which eventually took men to the moon, missiles to the planets, and satellites to outer space.

Click to expand...

I've read the ignition book, very, very interesting.

Boron fuels were abandoned not only because they were toxic for humans, but also for the turbojets themselves: they let rock-like deposits in the turbomachinery that were extremely hard to clean up. It was like carving granite out of a turbojet.
Ignition ! is a great read, the author had devastating humor.

But how hard does it impact rocket engines?

Pioneer said:

What about the study for a fuel for the USAF "Weapon System 110A", which would become the North American XB-70 Valkyrie bomber. ???
Graet study went into Boron-enriched "Zip Fuels", which improved the energy density of the fuel by about 40%.[6] Various US government agencies had been experimenting with zip fuels for some time, and they believed that once the problems they were having were worked out, zip fuel would become almost universal for high-speed aircraft. Although the advantages of a zip fueled aircraft would not be as great as those of a nuclear powered one, it would offer a real performance increase and was a relatively straightforward development of existing engines and fuels.
Zip fuel was to be used in the afterburners to improve range by 10% to 15% over conventional fuel.

Regards
Pioneer

Click to expand...

Major problem was that you couldn't use boron fuels in the jet, it'd make fun things like Boron Nitride deposits on the turbine blades. BN is one of the hardest ceramics known to man, you're chipping granite off the turbine blades every 50 hours.

So if you only use it in the afterburner, the BN only cakes up the exhaust tubes and the turkey feathers. Much better, but still not great. Plus, a few % better thrust gets counteracted by needing a dedicated separate fuel system, and the ZIP fuels not being usable in the jets except in afterburner means your engineers need to be on the ball as to how long your missions will be supersonic to have enough ZIP onboard to last.

Nevermind that the boron compounds are toxic.

kqcke for you said:

But how hard does it impact rocket engines?

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Ignoring toxicity (many rocket fuels are all sorts of toxic), it'd be acceptable for first stage engines where you need lots of mass flow and not necessarily high exhaust velocity.

If you were using combustion turbopumps for fuel and oxidizer, they'd probably choke up on boron nitride deposits really quickly. So you probably either need electrical pumps or some other fuel to drive your turbopumps. At which point, you might as well just use the other fuel rather than having three separate tanks and plumbing systems.

Okay nice to know. So next to the First Stage of rockets with electrical pumps they or some ramjets (as far as i heard) they May find a use on single use turbojet/Fans flying short enough so they bildup of bn doesnt hinder its function. Or one finds a way to somebos have a "shield" around the blades so the bn can't form there or on any other place in the engine.

kqcke for you said:

Okay nice to know. So next to the First Stage of rockets with electrical pumps they or some ramjets (as far as i heard) they May find a use on single use turbojet/Fans flying short enough so they bildup of bn doesnt hinder its function.

Click to expand...

Yes, something like cruise missile engines would be a usable place for ZIP fuels. Probably the best place for them, actually. 40% more energy per volume means at least 25% more range!

kqcke for you said:

Or one finds a way to somebos have a "shield" around the blades so the bn can't form there or on any other place in the engine.

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Theoretically, yes. Practically? good luck!

Okay but whats about the oxidizer for rockets. Both Tetra and Octaoxygen could give more energy but atleast for Octaoxygen its very hard to produce even on a small scale. Information in Tetraoxygen is very scare as far as i could find for now and most Sides saying more than what wiki says are very dubious.

kqcke for you said:

Okay but whats about the oxidizer for rockets. Both Tetra and Octaoxygen could give more energy but atleast for Octaoxygen its very hard to produce even on a small scale. Information in Tetraoxygen is very scare as far as i could find for now and most Sides saying more than what wiki says are very dubious.

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Depends on how aggressive an oxidizer you want. Chlorine Trifluoride is an option, as is FOOF.

ClF3 will set asbestos firebrick on fire. FOOF will set EVERYTHING on fire.

Scott Kenny said:

FOOF will set EVERYTHING on fire.

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I want a rocket with that as an oxidant and dicyanoacetylene as the fuel.

Good for Tsanders autophage rocket perhaps
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/8lvo6p/autophage_rocket_would_devour_itself_for_fuel/?rdt=48628

Don't forget that a major operational requirement for missile rocket motors is a 10 year storage life, wide pre-launch temperature range and hypergolic operation. High density is helpful to keep volume down, so once you've achieved all that a bit more zing starts to become less interesting.

Another exotic fuel would be fuelimycins

OliverSedlacek said:

Don't forget that a major operational requirement for missile rocket motors is a 10 year storage life, wide pre-launch temperature range and hypergolic operation. High density is helpful to keep volume down, so once you've achieved all that a bit more zing starts to become less interesting.

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For solid rockets, using CL20 (hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane) is a very good long term stable component to fuel. Though I doubt it meets the Insensitive Munitions rules as a pure item.

As long as robots load it.
More stable than many of the things he won’t work with…best for artillery that needs be fired at odd times.. call it the Schrödinger Cannon.

publiusr said:

As long as robots load it.
More stable than many of the things he won’t work with…best for artillery that needs be fired at odd times.. call it the Schrödinger Cannon.

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Remember that he's a drug discovery chemist, his brain isn't wired the right way to like working with splodeys.

The stability isn't any worse than TNT in any way that matters.

The geneticists products and such scare me more than having to juggle sweaty dynamite.

Does anybody know H-COT-Dimer? Now i found some things in Nasa PDFs to HED fuels to Metal additives but i can't find anything to what this shit is

Scott Kenny said:

For solid rockets, using CL20 (hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane) is a very good long term stable component to fuel. Though I doubt it meets the Insensitive Munitions rules as a pure item.

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I don't think I'll work with it either, thank you very much.

FOOF will set EVERYTHING on fire.

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All in the name. FOOF ! sounds like a flash fire, the Hollywood way.

Archibald said:

All in the name. FOOF ! sounds like a flash fire, the Hollywood way.

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"FOOF" sounds a lot more intimidating than "dioxygen diflouride" or "flourine peroxide"